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yellow hammer

Worthington should stay

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I was one of the first to criticise the failings of City this season. But now I feel that Nigel has admitted there is a problem and he''s going to fix it. It takes big guts to admit you''ve made mistakes and even bigger courage to start to put things right. But I beleive Worthy has what it takes to turn things around.

http://www.greenandyellow.co.uk/news/fareast/fareast091205.html

YellowHammer

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Far too litttle, and far, far too late!.

Anyone like me a little wary of all these new newbies coming in to support Worthless of late?.

PR going mad again?

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[quote user="yellow hammer"]

Nigel has admitted there is a problem and he''s going to fix it. It takes big guts to admit you''ve made mistakes and even bigger courage to start to put things right. But I beleive Worthy has what it takes to turn things around.

http://www.greenandyellow.co.uk/news/fareast/fareast091205.html

YellowHammer

[/quote]

Be honest, he could hardly say anything else, could he ? The evidence is there for all to see.

So you think he''s got what it takes to turn things around - 2 questions.

1. On what do you base this unsubstantiated prediction ?

2. If so, why has he not done it already ?

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So according to this article we should get behind the manager

because........ummmmmm.......I''m struggling here........<drums

fingers on desk>.........oh yeah, because "he can and will turn it

around".

It also says that "Nigel has the heart to admit that there is indeed

a problem".  I could''ve told him that 18 months. I suppose

shipping Jarrett out is going to fix everything is it?

There is absolutely nothing in that article that makes me change my mind.

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Yes one can''t but agree with the highly persuasive argument put across in that article. Hmmm

Firstly it''s Sky TV''s fault the players do not follow Worthy''s tactics because they have too much money.  TV has taken the power away from managers and the players are now only in it for themselves and not for the team.  If this really is true then managers need to adapt.  Funny though how Wenger managed to go a whole season unbeaten with a team of highly paid players who are clearly "in it for themselves".  Funny how although he has a multi million pound squad, full of multi millionaire players that Mourinho still commands the respect of his players. 

Also City''s situation is not quite as bad because Palace and Saints are not doing great either.  Well that makes it much better, not!.  Neither are 4 points of relegation though are they?  Quite frankly even if they were it would not be any consolation at all. 

Thirdly Worthy has now proved he has learnt from his mistakes by letting Jarrett go out on loan and he was big enough to admit he made a mistake.  I don''t remember Worthy admitting that signing Jarrett was a mistake and it certainly doesn''t prove he has learnt any lesson.  All it proves is that for months we paid the wages of a player who was about as useful as pair of sunglasses on a man with no ears!  Lets face it we had a injury crisis in midfield and Worthy still wouldn''t play him.

Last and not least and the best bit of the article for me is "Hang on in there, support your manager, and we’ll be celebrating promotion in our fine city once more".  Yes promotion from League 1, I can''t wait.

 

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I wonder if I am a ''new newbie'' or not? Surely new blood and different views on a site like this are welcomed rather than put up for accusation (or is that the price for holding an alternative opinion to the bulk of the ''oldies''?). Perhaps there are so many ''newbies'' because some of us supporters are sick and tired of hearing unreasonable and unfair rants against a successful and honest management team? You don''t have to have blind faith to support the Norwich City manager you just have to have belief that he has the ability to motivate players, can attract individuals above the pulling power of our club (Hucks&Ash), knows what it takes and how to reach the Premiership and has the respect and trust of the players. Yes we are in a serious dip of form but so are Palace and they are just getting on with it and recognising that the best way, as football fans, that you can yank the club out of its slump is to show genuine passion, trust and support when the players and manager need it most.   

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Poster who make reasoned arguments are welcomed, but not those with their own personal axe to grind and who make unsubstantiated unsupportable comments.  There is no basis for your conjecture you have no evidence for the points you wish to make.  In fact they are pointless.

You and your ilk are dangerous for our club you will not see what has been evident for the last 2 seasons, wake up now it may already be too late to halt the decline. 

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[quote user="Konstantin Pobedonostsev"]Yes we are in a serious dip of form but so are Palace and they are just getting on with it and recognising that the best way, as football fans, that you can yank the club out of its slump is to show genuine passion, trust and support when the players and manager need it most.   [/quote]

KP, might I ask what a supporter is supposed to do when, after giving the players and management that trust and support they go out and put together performances like the support has seen of late at Wolves, Luton, QPR, Millwall and Derby?

How do you feel when someone just blatantly throws that trust and support back in your face by not performing?

I think Worthy has had ample time to sort out the problems. Many of the problems have been there through the Premiership season and he either does NOT see them or simply chooses to ignore them. This has gone on to long and the normal rhetoric of hard work and effort is clearly falling on deaf ears. If they lose at Crewe with another no-show then the man should have the guts to admit he can''t fix this problem and leave.

 

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[quote user="Islington Canary"]

So according to this article we should get behind the manager

because........ummmmmm.......I''m struggling here.................oh yeah, because "he can and will turn it

around".

It also says that "Nigel has the heart to admit that there is indeed

a problem".  I could''ve told him that 18 months. I suppose

shipping Jarrett out is going to fix everything is it?

There is absolutely nothing in that article that makes me change my mind.

[/quote]

Isn''t it amazing how many Worthy outers will tell you that they were a

Worthy Outer 18 months ago. Hmm, on this basis you were an outer

because we got promoted to the Prem..??

Worthy has form in turning this club from relegation fodder into an

outfit capable of winning promotion. The subsequent failings of the

team are not entirely down to him. Several key players have let the

team down this season and I''m not talking about the new recruits.

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[quote user="Konstantin Pobedonostsev"]...you just have to have belief that he has the ability to motivate players,[/quote]

i.e - Blind faith!!

He can''t do it - we''ve been seeing evidence of this for 18 months now.

He has to go.

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In this stupid article it talks about

Palace doing badly!?!?!?!?  last time i looked they were 8th 1

pt off the play offs with 2 games in hand and a star striker

injured!!!  not too badly if you ask me, they have been climbing

all the time.

Southampton doing badly - well they have only lost 3 matches -

surely a good backbone to start a push up the table.  And they

lost BOTH there star strikers in the summer.

Us lol - having beat NOONE any good all season - playing DIRE football, Useless Journeymen filling the ranks.

as for Jason Jarrett - ADMITTING A MISTAKE - the guy was an utterly useless player.

As for francis - yes they have had to play the top 4 teams in recent

weeks - But yes I reckon he is well enjoying the VICTORIES in the

premiership and top half of the table.  had worthys team even got

a single victory by now last year??? in fact wigan only need 2 wins and

a 2 draws and they have our last years points tally!!!!

 

Worst of all worthy seems to have lost the dressing room...  And we still have no right midfield or winger

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Isnt it amazing that Worthington apologists keep harking back 18 months to make their point? dismissing the last year and a half of abysmal failure as some sort of blip. I quite agree with them that the players shouls take a huge dose of the blame for this pathetic situation, and would like to see the back of a great majority of them as well... beginning with the garbage we signed in the summer. Bottom line though, its broken... please please please FIX IT.  

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what i don''t understand is the people saying we''ve been playing poorly

for 18 months??????????? there was nothing wrong with how we performed

last season we were in the premier league the toughtest in the world

and we only narrowly got relegated anybody who expected us to do loads

better don''t live in the real world, Wigan are the exeption not the

rule, most promoted teams come straight back down!

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[quote user="rieg77"][quote user="Islington Canary"]

So according to this article we should get behind the manager because........ummmmmm.......I''m struggling here.................oh yeah, because "he can and will turn it around".

It also says that "Nigel has the heart to admit that there is indeed a problem".  I could''ve told him that 18 months. I suppose shipping Jarrett out is going to fix everything is it?

There is absolutely nothing in that article that makes me change my mind.

[/quote] Isn''t it amazing how many Worthy outers will tell you that they were a Worthy Outer 18 months ago. Hmm, on this basis you were an outer because we got promoted to the Prem..?? Worthy has form in turning this club from relegation fodder into an outfit capable of winning promotion. The subsequent failings of the team are not entirely down to him. Several key players have let the team down this season and I''m not talking about the new recruits.[/quote]

Rieg77, okay 18 months is probably a bit harsh as we were always going to struggle to start with in the Premiership (although Wigan and West Ham haven''t), but certainly in the last year Norwich have under performed. In fact we''ve been atrocious aside from the little run we put together right at the tail end of last season.

I''ve posted on here before saying that I was supporting Worthy at the start of this season, I thought it''d fair to give him at least 10 games and see where we''re at. But we are now 22 games in and we''ve lost 11 of them! That''s just not acceptable! It''s not as if we''ve even been unlucky, the defeats at Luton and QPR will live long in the memory! 

In any other walk of life a business with 12-18 months of under performance would be treated with the action it deserves, i.e. a change of management and a new approach. Why should a football club be any different? 

Can you imagine Delia leaving the head chef in charge of her Brasserie if for the last year they had been serving up inedible food and weren''t filling the restaurant every night?

Of course not.

Why is this any different?

 

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"what i don''t understand is the people saying we''ve been playing poorly for 18 months???????????"

We came down because we were playing poorly, that''s exactly the point - we didn''t make a good go of it until the end and by then it was far too little too late. We just went out there with a "little Norwich" attitude. If the manager hadn''t had his little fall outs with key players, and his insistance on the selection of the ''pensioners'' week in week out (Fleming, Holt, etc) then in my mind, we would have stayed up.

But that''s just it, it''s all ifs buts and maybes now, we''re a million miles from the Prem and the mistakes he made last season are not being addressed. No other manager at any other club would still be in a job after an abysmal 18 months, with 13 wins in 60 games. He is not the man to turn it around.

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Morph, of course you are correct to feel angry with some of the performances because in the end of the day it is courage, committment and effort that fans want to see in the players they pay so much to watch. I think, however, that it is wrong to suggest that the players and manager ''blatantly throws that trust back in your face'' you seem to argue that the people inside the club don''t actually care about what they doing or how they are performing ... you cannot really believe this can you? We have to stop searching for scape goats, stop complaining because it''s so unfair that we had the opportunity to test ourselves in the Premiership and now we are back in the second tier and realise that these things happen in football. Players are human beings and in a League so dependent on momentum over talent we are suffering from problems that will not be solved by sacking the manager.

It is too easy to sack the manager and I don''t think that will solve anything in reality. Worthy doesn''t want to go, the board don''t want him to go, many fans don''t want him to go ... he''s not going so whether you like him there or not he is going to be there and we need to think about more effective, long lasting and intelligent ways to turn things around rather than take the easy and potentially more devastating option. 

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Rieg, I am sure everyone will agree that the players are also at fault here but I have to say that just because "Worthy has form in turning this club from relegation fodder into an outfit capable of winning promotion" does not mean he will do it again.

When he first took charge following the departure of Hamilton he knew exactly what was necessary to turn things around. I am sure he had been watching Hamilton making a complete pigs ear of it and thinking about what he would have done had he been in charge.  He knew where the problems were and which players were simply not up to task.  He wasted no time in getting rid of all the second rate foreigners that Hamilton packed into the club and he demanded that his players became fitter and stronger and implemented a new training regime.  He instilled a work ethic and team spirit into the club and for the first time in years we had a side that didn''t fade after Christmas.  His policies took us from strength to strength over the next few seasons.

Fast forward 5 years to the match at Derby and we are  in a similar position to when he took over, with one major difference, this time it''s his own mess.  His own players, his own tactics, his training regime, his staff and things being done his way.  It''s a lot easier to turn things around when they are not problems of your making, you come into the situation with a different viewpoint and the mistakes are clearer.  Worthy to me does not seem to know were he is going wrong, all he can do is demand the players work harder.  That seems to be his only solution to the current problem, no talk of passing or retaining the ball better, no talk of a better supply to the strikers, no talk of better preparation for set pieces, just working harder.

I don''t know how many people if any on this forum today were at Derby but I hope someone can back me up on what I am about to say.  When Derby scored the second goal Worthy looked absolutely lost, he looked like a man who at that moment and with almost 40 minutes still to play accepted defeat, he looked like a man who had no idea on what to do next, he looked clueless.

That''s why I feel he needs to go, he has come to end at City.  To be honest I think he could well go to another club and do what he has done for us in the past, I just don''t think he can do it for us again.

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To be honest Wayne! we were the exception to the rule.  We were the first team in 6 years to win this league and be relegated the following season. 

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Norwich have not played to their potential since the last game of the championship winning season.   Since then poor managerial selections have prevented the squad first in the prem and now in the champs from performing to the ability they can.  That got us relegated last season and will have us miss out on promotion this season.  So yes there has beena  season and a halfs underperformance from the manager.

I have not been a ''worthy outer'' for long but have been  critical of the manager for several years - since he sat back on a 1-0 lead in the play of finals actually.  During this time I have defended him when things have gone wrong (relegation) and praised him when things went well (promotion) but the crticisms have been there all along around player selection, out of position players, tactical awareness and most importantly coaching.

At the start of this season I still pushed for Worthy to stay on the grounds he knew this league and got us out before, despite my reservations.  However he has lost the one thing that got us promoted, team spirit, and so his other failings once covered, are laid bare for all  to see. I have been a worthy outer for 2 months only once it became clear he could not turn the team around.

This is not a 10 game knee jerk reaction but the culmination of a long rolling snowball of conributory factors finally catching our manager up. 

OTBC

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