Jump to content
Note to existing users - password reset is required Read more... ×
Making Plans

Time to shake it up at Wigan

Recommended Posts

Dan, you're coming across as a little truculent. Would a little beddy byes help?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stiepermann has some games where he takes an touch too many on the ball and overplays things and unfortunately last night was one of them. He's integral to how we play and by no means should he be dropped but he did have a frustrating game for me.

Cantwell did fine. he's a good player, didn't really do anything wrong last night (although played it pretty safe with some of his passing i think) and certainly should not be singled out but it does appear that some of our fans seem unable to distinguish between fans saying (or indeed between taking the view that) "Cantwell is sh*t" and "Vrancic brings more to the side."

For me the latter is indisputable. its backed up by what we've seen on the pitch, what we saw last night and the stats that were posted on here a couple of days ago which I think showed that despite some good performances, Cantwells assist stats are well below those of Vrancic, Buendia or Mclean. 

I think its a heck of a risk from here in for Farke to continue to leave two quality players in Vrancic and Leitner on our bench. At the very least I hope to see Vrancic start on Sunday. As soon as he came on last night we moved the ball quicker and Mclean also looked good on the left where he swung in several decent crosses. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Thing about this is that Todd couldn't be Emi. No s Sherlock! Onel and Marco had the chance to step up and be Emi but neither of them could either. There's a first for everything but so far this season Farke has used his squad in the positions they cover for. I don't think Vrancic or Leitner are best suited to that forward position.

I said on another thread that I think people are misremembering our performances earlier in the season. As a team we were better last night than we were against Wigan, Stoke, Brentford, Millwall, Rotherham and Bolton. This so called control never actually happened and I would suggest we controlled the game better last night than in any of the games I listed. Also our best period of the season for winning points is surely the current one.

Edited by nutty nigel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

Stiepermann has some games where he takes an touch too many on the ball and overplays things and unfortunately last night was one of them.

I think this is fair summary- the commentator on Sky also mentioned him turning down good opportunities to cross/pass in favour of cutting back again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I would suggest we controlled the game better last night than in any of the games I listed.

I think there is a slight caveat that Reading were happy to let us control the game. They were more than happy to sit deep and let us play keep ball and as the game went on they were happy to let us attack down the flanks. I can barely remember them pressing us all game.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think there is a slight caveat that Reading were happy to let us control the game. They were more than happy to sit deep and let us play keep ball and as the game went on they were happy to let us attack down the flanks. I can barely remember them pressing us all game.

Yes but so were Stoke when they beat us 1-0 in a similar game. Worth remembering that defeat saw us drop out of the playoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Emi was missed in so many ways it was palpable I thought. Those players playing off him , like Stiepermann , Onel and Pukki suddenly didn't look so effective. It certainly wasn't all about Cantwell (although I doubt he will start against Wigan) but losing a quick footed, pacey, skillful player , absolutely brimming with confidence was always going to be tough. Games change on moments. Last night the game had a few big moments and for once , unlike for example Middlesbrough , they didn't all work in our favour. 

 

I reckon we need 6 points from 5 games . If I was to rank our chances of victory in the five i would say home to Blackburn most likely , away to Villa least likely. The others who knows. We have now lost to Preston , and drawn against Reading. Leeds have lost to QPR, and Sheff Utd lost at home to Bristol City.  

If we don't make it we should be shot. But anyone expecting to be promoted with 5 or even three games to go is deluded. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

If you seriously think that Krul was in any way at fault for their second goal then you need help! 

And his positioning was perfect for the chance that Miete had. 

You have pinned your colours to the mast of attacking Tim Krul and you are now actually changing reality to fit your opinion - rather than changing your opinion to fit reality. 

Sorry, but you're wrong (again). I sit right behind where Miete struck the ball from - on target and it was in. From where I sit I can't tell about his positioning on the goals so I have watched the highlights several times - for the second goal, the shot was so obvious; even their goalscorer has said he had so much time he couldn't believe it - Krul virtually showed him where to put it. It was a sidefoot from 20 yards not a piledriver - he didn't make any attempt to save it as he was so far from it and his feet were planted. Do you really think a top goalkeeper wouldn't have had a decent chance of saving that?

And, as for pinning my colours and attacking him, I've praised him recently for his command of his area and his calming influence. He is clearly a big part of the squad. That doesn't make him a particularly good goalkeeper - just the best we have. He's certainly improved over the season, but he's not the keeper he once was. I hope he gets there, but he reminds me of John  Ruddy after his own serious injury - he never quite got back to that standard.

I will keep stating the bl**ding obvious - look at his stats on goals conceded against shots on target. He is currently level 8th with 3 others. In pretty much every other position our players are in the top 3. That's my point - he's not necessarily a bad goalkeeper, he's just not as good as the rest of the team are. They excel - Krul doesn't. He scores 5 and 6 every week with an occasional 8. Everyone else has been getting 8 and 9 with the occasional 5 or 6. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Sorry, but you're wrong (again). I sit right behind where Miete struck the ball from - on target and it was in. From where I sit I can't tell about his positioning on the goals so I have watched the highlights several times - for the second goal, the shot was so obvious; even their goalscorer has said he had so much time he couldn't believe it - Krul virtually showed him where to put it. It was a sidefoot from 20 yards not a piledriver - he didn't make any attempt to save it as he was so far from it and his feet were planted. Do you really think a top goalkeeper wouldn't have had a decent chance of saving that?

And, as for pinning my colours and attacking him, I've praised him recently for his command of his area and his calming influence. He is clearly a big part of the squad. That doesn't make him a particularly good goalkeeper - just the best we have. He's certainly improved over the season, but he's not the keeper he once was. I hope he gets there, but he reminds me of John  Ruddy after his own serious injury - he never quite got back to that standard.

I will keep stating the bl**ding obvious - look at his stats on goals conceded against shots on target. He is currently level 8th with 3 others. In pretty much every other position our players are in the top 3. That's my point - he's not necessarily a bad goalkeeper, he's just not as good as the rest of the team are. They excel - Krul doesn't. He scores 5 and 6 every week with an occasional 8. Everyone else has been getting 8 and 9 with the occasional 5 or 6. 

You've obviously played in goal at a high standard and never conceded a soft goal 😂🤦‍♂️, saying that they werent soft goals. Both very good finishes 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've watched the first goal many times and I still can't tell where the ball went in to the goal and whether Krul could perhaps have got something on it. Not saying it was his fault (clearly Stiepermann put us in trouble and then Godfrey should have done more to prevent the shot) but it just seemed to go right through/over him from where I was sitting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Sorry, but you're wrong (again). I sit right behind where Miete struck the ball from - on target and it was in. From where I sit I can't tell about his positioning on the goals so I have watched the highlights several times - for the second goal, the shot was so obvious; even their goalscorer has said he had so much time he couldn't believe it - Krul virtually showed him where to put it. It was a sidefoot from 20 yards not a piledriver - he didn't make any attempt to save it as he was so far from it and his feet were planted. Do you really think a top goalkeeper wouldn't have had a decent chance of saving that?

And, as for pinning my colours and attacking him, I've praised him recently for his command of his area and his calming influence. He is clearly a big part of the squad. That doesn't make him a particularly good goalkeeper - just the best we have. He's certainly improved over the season, but he's not the keeper he once was. I hope he gets there, but he reminds me of John  Ruddy after his own serious injury - he never quite got back to that standard.

I will keep stating the bl**ding obvious - look at his stats on goals conceded against shots on target. He is currently level 8th with 3 others. In pretty much every other position our players are in the top 3. That's my point - he's not necessarily a bad goalkeeper, he's just not as good as the rest of the team are. They excel - Krul doesn't. He scores 5 and 6 every week with an occasional 8. Everyone else has been getting 8 and 9 with the occasional 5 or 6. 

It doesn’t matter how obvious the shot was, from that range Krul has to stay central and maximise his chances of reaching every corner of the goal. You seem to be suggesting he should’ve started heading to the far post? Something keepers will only do in anticipation of a freekick or a 1v1 (and often lamented for doing so even in these situations). Imagine if he’d made a move and the shot then went to his near post, I wonder if you would be criticising him in this scenario... 

His feet weren’t planted either, he set himself in the same way any other keeper would- bending the knees and preparing to bounce/jump as the shot was struck. The shot was from inside the area and a well hit side foot, who cares that’s it wasn’t a screamer? Players can side foot into the corners from 25-30 yards if executed well enough! 

No way should Krul have saved that shot - and I only believe someone with a bit of an agenda would see it like that, sorry to say as I don’t think you’re purposefully singling him out.

That said, I don’t disagree with the rest of your post, when you look at his ability on purely a shot stopping level I would place him as an average stopper in this league. He has rightly come under fire during this season for some costly errors which have lost us points (not that it matters that much...). 

I do however also think that he has been an invaluable member to our team this season- his experience is needed for the young back 4, his ability (yes ability) with his feet is key to building from the back and he has a clear passion and drive for the cause which I think rubs off on the team.

He has looked reasonably solid in recent fixtures, his handling from long range shots appears to be more stable than earlier in the season, let’s hope he continues for the rest of the season!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main thing is with Krul....is that he seldom saves the shots he's not supposed to save, thats what separates the good keepers from the average.

He lets the shots in he should....he saves 'most' of the shots he should....but how many times has pulled something off out if the blue....I can think of 2 in the same game away at Bristol City this season ...but not many more?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

The main thing is with Krul....is that he seldom saves the shots he's not supposed to save, thats what separates the good keepers from the average.

He lets the shots in he should....he saves 'most' of the shots he should....but how many times has pulled something off out if the blue....I can think of 2 in the same game away at Bristol City this season ...but not many more?

Blinding save at Brentford from a clearly offside centre forward to preserve a point for us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

You can't remember anyone playing sh*t in a Norwich shirt. Ok. I think we've arrived at the crux of the problem.

And I don't think Stiepermann lacks commitment, far from it. I just thought he was absolutely awful last night. He was almost fully at fault for goal number 1 and largely at fault for goal number 2 and ignoring those crucial incidents his passing was poor and he wasted several attacks with poor decisions.

I actually think if I was to rank our squad for who has had the best season, Stiepermann would probably be 5th (Pukki, Aarons, Buendia, Zimmermann, Stipermann would be my top 5), so I'm not saying he's useless, but some hysterical people on here seem to think you can't criticise individual performances without automatically thinking that player must be god awful. It's bizarre. We had it with Krul a few weeks ago on the back of a couple of horrendous howlers. Pointing out that they were horrendous howlers and making the suggestion that it might be risky having him as our first choice goaly in the Premier League, should we get there, was considered pant-wetting or having a meltdown.

 

You're not. You're hugely entertaining.

SR clearly never watched Gary Doherty or Andy Hughes in a Norwich shirt 😂😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, zema abbey football genius said:

SR clearly never watched Gary Doherty or Andy Hughes in a Norwich shirt 😂😂

I did and I'm still on medication. 🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, zema abbey football genius said:

SR clearly never watched Gary Doherty or Andy Hughes in a Norwich shirt 😂😂

I think that putting Gary Doherty and Andy Hughes in the same category is an insult 😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Krul wasn't at fault for either of the goals. Godfrey had time to get across his man, but clearly thought Meite was going to take a touch, and Steipermann gave the ball away in a terrible area.

It was an extremely good finish, and unless Krul has developed a sense of telepathy, he had very little chance of saving it from 6 yards out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Several players had off days last night, which I would guess is largely down to how Reading set up and the lack of an Argentinian magician! I’m sure we’ll get to grips with Emi’s absence and I think Vrancic starting on Sunday would help with that, as the most similar type of player we have to Emi.

On Krul, he’s ok but no more. He seems to pick the ball out of the net far more regularly than he makes a blinding save. The poster that says he saves what he should and nothing more, is spot on IMO.

Reading’s keeper kept them in the match with several very good saves, which is why he was their MOTM. I don’t recall Krul making a save of note but conceding two goals, which is sometimes how the cookie crumbles but this does appear to happen more often than it should. Maybe he’s just unlucky with the quality of shot being faced but that seems a little far fetched.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Ian said:

Krul wasn't at fault for either of the goals. Godfrey had time to get across his man, but clearly thought Meite was going to take a touch, and Steipermann gave the ball away in a terrible area.

It was an extremely good finish, and unless Krul has developed a sense of telepathy, he had very little chance of saving it from 6 yards out.

Whilst I agree...could you see him save the kind of chance like the one Martinez saved from Rhodes' header in injury time that should have put us 3-1 up?....not so sure I would

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

I think Leitner may  be off if he doesn’t get some game time soon

Yes, he's off. Off to the Premiership with the rest of the squad!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't get the Krul bashing. Has done a sterling job in our goal most of the season. Yes I acknowledge the mistakes made throughout the season but he has grown into the role in the team. No way either goal was his fault and he has made some very good saves this season with brentford and bristol already mentioned. Pulled off a blinder against Millwall too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Whilst I agree...could you see him save the kind of chance like the one Martinez saved from Rhodes' header in injury time that should have put us 3-1 up?....not so sure I would

It was a very good save, but who can say? I do recall Krul making an excellent double stop away recently (maybe Millwall)?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Yes, he's off. Off to the Premiership with the rest of the squad!

 

Leitner body language is not good who is obvious even Farke spoke so many times how great is players relations and atmosphere in the team I not believe can keep happy top player who seat 2 months on bench .

As we see already not matter how good is players/Oliveira/Farke not tolerate bad altitude and I also agree that Leitner may be soon will be off if not start play more often very soon.

As Farke show that not lost his faith after 1 game only I fully believe Cantwell will start again and we will be unchanged on Sunday if all players is fit.

Nothing against Dereham boy simply I afraid to see top players as Leitner and Vrancic unhappy and frustrated.

Fingers crossed all to end very soon with promo and we to rotate a bit with more games also for Klose Tettey and Thompson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/04/2019 at 21:52, Making Plans said:

Too many half hearted performances tonight - Steipermann, Cantwell & Maclean.

Can't afford to carry passengers now when we've got class players gagging for a game on the bench.

Time to start with Vrancic & Leitner

 

Couldn't agree more, but do feel Todd played as well as he is able to. Also I wasn't happy seeing Onel drifting inside throughout the game. We need him more in the game. 

Mario needs to start as he is far far better than McClean. I want also to see Leitner get some time playing. Tom is good but why not rotate the squad a little as Maurice is just as good, if not better. It would also keep one of our star players happy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Harry53 said:

Couldn't agree more, but do feel Todd played as well as he is able to. Also I wasn't happy seeing Onel drifting inside throughout the game. We need him more in the game. 

Mario needs to start as he is far far better than McClean. I want also to see Leitner get some time playing. Tom is good but why not rotate the squad a little as Maurice is just as good, if not better. It would also keep one of our star players happy. 

If fear Leitner has been out of the picture almost too long now, not even substitute appearances, to be up to speed with the rest of the team

May need to delve a little deeper into the squad over easter, but please please tomorrow , lets have Vrancic on the pitch instead of Cantwell. No slight on Cantwell but even if playing on the right , Vrancic can just as easily play there but offer so much more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look Todd did ok on weds but he is well behind in his development compared to Aarons, Lewis and Godfrey. Either Vrancic or Leitner have to start at Wigan and Farke has to figure how best to make this work. Against Reading we were much better when Vrancic came on and almost turned defeat intio victory. Cantwell may be brought on to help defend a lead but for me he doesn't create enough more foward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×