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Making Plans

Time to shake it up at Wigan

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1 minute ago, splendidrush said:

Why is Cantwell suddenly up for discussion?

He's almost certain to be dropped on Sunday. By your own logic, that will mean he had a bad game. Or do you only apply that logic when it proves the point you're trying to make, but ignore it when it suggests your opinion might be wrong?

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Not the same thing at all, Steiperman is unique in our set up. Buendia's replacement threw up all sorts of permutations, as was discussed on here.

I'm not sure he is certain to be dropped and if he is, how do you know it's not for tactical reasons?

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Cantwell had a decent game and there is no point in comparisons with anyone. There is only one Emi Buendia. He is a one-off. Stiepermann was largely responsible for two sloppy pieces of play that contributed to both Reading goals. But he added to our attacking threat (albeit not as tellingly as usual) too. It was an off day for him. Not worthy of being dropped. Yet, if you analyse the small details (as DF will) then there were a few poor decisions last night. 

Overall, you have to say the paying crowd got their entertainment and full value in our play.

I just hope Mario and Mo are re-introduced soon as I would like to see them involved. I've felt they are two of our most cultured players and would just like to see them with more playing time. It's been hard for them in this winning run so far. I hope DF is less conservative in our next 5 games.

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11 hours ago, Making Plans said:

All for keeping the same team when we are winning but the sending off and a dull performance changes all that.

We nearly got out of jail tonight but in the end we've chucked 2 points away by sloppy defending, mainly thanks to Steipermann.

Maybe one or two are a bit tired, over confident or feeling the pressure and they shouldn't be allowed to think their selection is safe when they have not had good games. .

We have class players in Vrancic & Leitner who won't let us down and can get the job done.

A few weeks ago people were commenting on the strength of our bench. Doesn't matter how strong it is if you don't use it or pick some of the players sitting on it.

 

Win/lose as a team and in this case draw as a team. Like most others I don't think Stieperman can take all of the blame for the goals - one misplaced pass on halfway and a poor tackle at the side of the penalty area wouldn't result in goals unless others also made errors - Godfrey and Krul were half asleep for the first one and Cantwell and Aarons were miles upfield with no cover and no one closed down the shooter for the second and again, Krul was totally out of position and showed him where to put it - a sidefoot finish from 20 yards. But both were very good finishes which would normally have hit row Z.

Pukki should have scored at least 3 and Rhodes missed a sitter - surely the lost points are also their fault?

Fact is we shouldn't let a team like Reading score two goals against us at home. Thankfully, it hasn't hurt us much.

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20 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

Not the same thing at all, Steiperman is unique in our set up. Buendia's replacement threw up all sorts of permutations, as was discussed on here.

I'm not sure he is certain to be dropped and if he is, how do you know it's not for tactical reasons?

So there we go. If Cantwell is dropped it will be for tactical reasons, but if Stiepermann isn't dropped it is because he played well.

Have you heard of cognitive dissonance?

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2 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Christ, a signed up member of the Pinkun Illuminati. 

I thought Stiepermann was sh*t last night and that his sh*tness cost us the game. That is all. I don't think he is a sh*t player; he's had a brilliant season and has been crucial in our upturn in performances. I don't think the draw last night will stop us going up. I think Farke is almost a deity but got it wrong last night. 

This shouldn't make anyway cry into their Weetabix and assume that anyone (whisper this next bit because it's heller controversial) criticising Norwich players performances on a Norwich City FC forum is having a meltdown

The only meltdowns are from those who drop their shopping at the merest hint of a suggestion that we're not the planet's greatest ever team and that every player is as good as Messi, if not better. 

Blimey, you're brave. When I dared to suggest that Krul might not be the best keeper in the Championship I got well and truly hammered........

Incidentally, I thought Krul was sh*t again last night, but I'm not allowed to say that. His classic backwards dive for the first and nothing at all for the second. If Miete had got his other chance on target Krul was nowhere near it.

And if we do go up and don't buy a better keeper we have zero chance of staying up. But I'm not allowed to say that either.

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Posted (edited)

Course not. Criticism of players will not be tolerated. This is a football forum, after all.

It's proper mental. For these people, there is no gray area. You either think all our players are brilliant and always play well, or you think they are awful and must be made into scapegoats.

The reality is, we're all Norwich fans and bar a very few exceptions, we like all our players. It's just some of us can accept that they will have bad games and occasionally woeful games. Apparently though, pointing out that they've had a bad game is a cardinal sin.

And it's not really brave, is it? I doubt these PinkUners are the sort who'll come up to me with a shiv when I'm at the pub before the next home game. Being screeched at on a message board isn't difficult to deal with, it makes my day at work go that little bit quicker and is normally very entertaining.

Edited by canarydan23
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Yeah, I suppose Krul should have saved that looping shot from 3 yards out and definitely should have saved the great finish into the bottom far corner.

 

KRUL OUT!!

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Just now, sgncfc said:

Win/lose as a team and in this case draw as a team. Like most others I don't think Stieperman can take all of the blame for the goals - one misplaced pass on halfway and a poor tackle at the side of the penalty area wouldn't result in goals unless others also made errors - Godfrey and Krul were half asleep for the first one and Cantwell and Aarons were miles upfield with no cover and no one closed down the shooter for the second and again, Krul was totally out of position and showed him where to put it - a sidefoot finish from 20 yards. But both were very good finishes which would normally have hit row Z.

Pukki should have scored at least 3 and Rhodes missed a sitter - surely the lost points are also their fault?

Fact is we shouldn't let a team like Reading score two goals against us at home. Thankfully, it hasn't hurt us much.

This.

And Godfrey wasn't quite tight enough to Meite for the first goal, but I don't hear anyone blaming him.

And we shouldn't let a team like Reading score two goals against us, but if someone had shown you the statistics from last night without showing you the final result, you'd have assumed we'd won comfortably. Those games happen to even the very best teams from time to time.

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Correct FTW, it's something Godfrey's done in the past in letting the opposition player have a little too much space to get their shot away in the box.

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Just now, Feedthewolf said:

And we shouldn't let a team like Reading score two goals against us, but if someone had shown you the statistics from last night without showing you the final result, you'd have assumed we'd won comfortably. Those games happen to even the very best teams from time to time.

I'm surprised to see this trotted out today, given the season we had last year. How many times did we dominate possession last term and lost? Didn't we have 75% possession and lost 4-0 against Millwall?

The fact is, Reading set up to allow us to have plenty of possession. They allowed us to have the ball in our own half and gave us plenty of space on the flanks. They let Aarons and Lewis get the ball in space on the wings, confident in their size and strength superiority, and packed out the centre of the pitch. The frustrating thing for me, perhaps more frustrating than Stiepermann's appalling performance, was that we didn't try anything different for over an hour.

The answer was direct attacking up the centre with quick one-twos, maximising our mobility advantage. The only time we really tried it was with Godfrey and we all know what happened there. For 70 minutes we just passed the ball around the back and knocked it to one of the full backs to launch an attack up the wing. It's exactly what Gomes expected to do, exactly what Gomes wanted us to do and exactly what Gomes had set his team up to counter.

70%+ possession isn't impressive when you're being given it by your opponent.

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Just now, canarydan23 said:

Course not. Criticism of players will not be tolerated. This is a football forum, after all.

It's proper mental. For these people, there is no gray area. You either think all our players are brilliant and always play well, or you think they are awful and must be made into scapegoats.

The reality is, we're all Norwich fans and bar a very few exceptions, we like all our players. It's just some of us can accept that they will have bad games and occasionally woeful games. Apparently though, pointing out that they've had a bad game is a cardinal sin.

And it's not really brave, is it? I doubt these PinkUners are the sort who'll come up to me with a shiv when I'm at the pub before the next home game. Being screeched at on a message board isn't difficult to deal with, it makes my day at work go that little bit quicker and is normally very entertaining.

"These people" = people who hold a contrary position to your own? That's pretty black-and-white thinking, isn't it? 🙂

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1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

"These people" = people who hold a contrary position to your own?

No. That's called a straw man. You only really make them when you're struggling.

"These people" are the people who conflate criticism of individual performances with something other than a criticism of an individual performance.

Now, put the shiv down.

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4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I'm surprised to see this trotted out today, given the season we had last year. How many times did we dominate possession last term and lost? Didn't we have 75% possession and lost 4-0 against Millwall?

I think the key difference from the possession stat in comparison to last season is, y'know, the actual ****ing performance where we created multiple opportunities but didn't take them? If you want to play the stat game it's worth also considering the amount of 'dangerous attacks', or our 'xpg' vs Reading etc etc.

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12 hours ago, CanaryChris said:

Put a beard on Emi and call him Joey Jo Jo a new academy product.

That’d never work he’s already got a beard 

A newspaper with two eye cuts outs may do the trick 

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Just now, canarydan23 said:

I'm surprised to see this trotted out today, given the season we had last year. How many times did we dominate possession last term and lost? Didn't we have 75% possession and lost 4-0 against Millwall?

The fact is, Reading set up to allow us to have plenty of possession. They allowed us to have the ball in our own half and gave us plenty of space on the flanks. They let Aarons and Lewis get the ball in space on the wings, confident in their size and strength superiority, and packed out the centre of the pitch. The frustrating thing for me, perhaps more frustrating than Stiepermann's appalling performance, was that we didn't try anything different for over an hour.

The answer was direct attacking up the centre with quick one-twos, maximising our mobility advantage. The only time we really tried it was with Godfrey and we all know what happened there. For 70 minutes we just passed the ball around the back and knocked it to one of the full backs to launch an attack up the wing. It's exactly what Gomes expected to do, exactly what Gomes wanted us to do and exactly what Gomes had set his team up to counter.

70%+ possession isn't impressive when you're being given it by your opponent.

Yes, but this season we've done the same and we're... wait for it... six points clear at the top of the f*cking league. Most teams set up to allow us possession, and we beat most of them because we're the best team in the league.

It's not like Reading kept us at arm's length all night, we had 25 shots on goal! Pukki missed three good chances, Rhodes missed a sitter, Hernandez pulled a great save out of the keeper, we had two excellent penalty shouts turned down (Trybull first half, Pukki second half)… and plenty more besides.

And we didn't try anything different for an hour because it was working. Even not playing near our best, we were still creating chances and raining shots down on their goal. And this off the back of having employed the same system, and ten of the same players, for eight consecutive matches, all of which we won.

And your Stiepermann fetish is quite disturbing.

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38 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

And we didn't try anything different for an hour because it was working.

Ah yes, 1-0 down against a team fighting off relegation. Working very well.

And I don't think you know what fetish means. Are you 12?

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56 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Blimey, you're brave. When I dared to suggest that Krul might not be the best keeper in the Championship I got well and truly hammered........

Incidentally, I thought Krul was sh*t again last night, but I'm not allowed to say that. His classic backwards dive for the first and nothing at all for the second. If Miete had got his other chance on target Krul was nowhere near it.

And if we do go up and don't buy a better keeper we have zero chance of staying up. But I'm not allowed to say that either.

If you seriously think that Krul was in any way at fault for their second goal then you need help! 

And his positioning was perfect for the chance that Miete had. 

You have pinned your colours to the mast of attacking Tim Krul and you are now actually changing reality to fit your opinion - rather than changing your opinion to fit reality. 

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I remain of the opinion that if we'd scored 3 or 4, or not conceded in the last minute we wouldn't be having this conversation, even if the performances were the same. 

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3 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Ah yes, 1-0 down against a team fighting off relegation. Working very well.

And I don't think you know what fetish means. Are you 12?

Any interest in replying to the rest of my post in context? Or happy just to pick out one line and focus on that? I've no interest in any more petty sh*t, it's getting a bit stale now (and yes, I'm aware that I have contributed to that pettiness).

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57 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I'm surprised to see this trotted out today, given the season we had last year. How many times did we dominate possession last term and lost? Didn't we have 75% possession and lost 4-0 against Millwall?

The fact is, Reading set up to allow us to have plenty of possession. They allowed us to have the ball in our own half and gave us plenty of space on the flanks. They let Aarons and Lewis get the ball in space on the wings, confident in their size and strength superiority, and packed out the centre of the pitch. The frustrating thing for me, perhaps more frustrating than Stiepermann's appalling performance, was that we didn't try anything different for over an hour.

The answer was direct attacking up the centre with quick one-twos, maximising our mobility advantage. The only time we really tried it was with Godfrey and we all know what happened there. For 70 minutes we just passed the ball around the back and knocked it to one of the full backs to launch an attack up the wing. It's exactly what Gomes expected to do, exactly what Gomes wanted us to do and exactly what Gomes had set his team up to counter.

70%+ possession isn't impressive when you're being given it by your opponent.

So good of you to enlighten us all as to what the "answer" was last night. I'm thinking of starting up a Pink'Un fund so that we can set up a dedicated phone line at matches where the floundering Daniel Farke can consult you for your Moses like advice as to what to do. 

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Just now, Thirsty Lizard said:

So good of you to enlighten us all as to what the "answer" was last night. I'm thinking of starting up a Pink'Un fund so that we can set up a dedicated phone line at matches where the floundering Daniel Farke can consult you for your Moses like advice as to what to do. 

Go for it, chap. You'd need a hell of a lot of donors to afford me.

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1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

This.

And Godfrey wasn't quite tight enough to Meite for the first goal, but I don't hear anyone blaming him.

And we shouldn't let a team like Reading score two goals against us, but if someone had shown you the statistics from last night without showing you the final result, you'd have assumed we'd won comfortably. Those games happen to even the very best teams from time to time.

Exactly this! I was thinking after the game that we were probably feeling just like Wolves did last season after Oliveira equalised with a  40 yard shot with the last kick of the game to give us a 2-2 draw at Molineaux. 

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Just now, canarydan23 said:

Nope.

Kind of contextualises your attempts at assuming a position of intellectual superiority, then.

Well, that and your original absurdist statement from last night. Let's just remind the people again so they can all refresh their memory:

"I still can't get over how appalling Stiepermann played today. Just awful. He didn't look like a football player. He looked like a fan being given a chance to play with professionals. Cannot believe he lasted the full game."

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5 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Go for it, chap. You'd need a hell of a lot of donors to afford me.

Given your pompous pontificating on this thread so far I've got a sneaking feeling that you probably actually believe this!

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1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Kind of contextualises your attempts at assuming a position of intellectual superiority, then.

Well, that and your original absurdist statement from last night. Let's just remind the people again so they can all refresh their memory:

"I still can't get over how appalling Stiepermann played today. Just awful. He didn't look like a football player. He looked like a fan being given a chance to play with professionals. Cannot believe he lasted the full game."

It's great. We draw a game and people come up with some ridiculous statements but that has to be one of the more creative one's. Didn't realise there were so many unstable people in and around Norwich!

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Just now, hogesar said:

It's great. We draw a game and people come up with some ridiculous statements but that has to be one of the more creative one's. Didn't realise there were so many unstable people in and around Norwich!

You've been on here before, right?

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