Does Huddersfield's

[sgncfc 1,221]

On 27/03/2019 at 13:49, westcoastcanary said:

The club's objective, according to DF in a recent interview, is to become "a fixture" among England's top 25 clubs. That is what we all need to buy into, not the far less realistic aim of becoming "established in the EPL". In DF's words, becoming established among England's top 25 clubs means seasons in the EPL and seasons in the Championship but, when in the Championship, always being in a position to mount a realistic challenge for promotion. That's NCFC's interpretation of "yo-yo club" and a perfectly sensible and attainable goal to adopt. My only comment would be to ask why it has taken so long for our club and supporters to adopt it, when Robert Chase forecast exactly that future for us twenty three years ago.

I was a bit puzzled by the "top 25" quote. Does that mean Premier League or Champs Playoffs every year? But only if we finish 5th or above in the champs. So if we go up this year, relegation next season is a success? I suspect quite a lot of supporters won't adopt that at all. And it won't work - relegation kills a club; players move on if they are any good or stay if they are not, as everyone discovers; backroom staff lose their jobs; profile implodes; support wanes. We have been "top 25" for about 8 of the last 10 years - is that not consistent?

I wish he'd said "top 17", then we'd all know what he meant.

[sgncfc 1,221]

12 hours ago, lake district canary said:

This, 100%.  The move to be sustainable and get the club working as well as possible within it's means, is proving itself as we watch.  So we are not super rich, but all the pant wetting about not having money to spend has been proven to be just that - pant wetting.  The club is now on the kind of footing we are presumably all happy about - it is functioning at it's best in pretty much all departments.  

Maintaining that healthy situation is not going to be easy as we move forwards, but we look as if we have the next three or four years at least to develop things with the present hierachy in place.  What happens after that is anyone's guess, Huddersfield have lost their way - but our stability as a club is strong and even if DS/MJW were to step aside, or if any of the management team move on, it looks as if they have in place a structure and ethos that will stand the test of time.  

One thing is for sure - money can be a help, but is not the be all and end all for having a successful club.  Get the right ethos, the right kind of players and a belief that what you are doing can be successful and the sky is the limit.

 

 

This all sounds great, but we have been here before you know - several times. Walkers team had "no stars" but a great team ethic - when he went, it went with him. If Farke or Webber go, it'll go with them too. Enjoy it while you can - there is no such thing as "long term" in football. There is no guarantee that we will be able to source good players or youngsters again like we have this season and that they will then win games. If it was as easy  as you all think everyone would be doing it.

[CanaryChris 146]

2 hours ago, sgncfc said:

I was a bit puzzled by the "top 25" quote. Does that mean Premier League or Champs Playoffs every year? But only if we finish 5th or above in the champs. So if we go up this year, relegation next season is a success? I suspect quite a lot of supporters won't adopt that at all. And it won't work - relegation kills a club; players move on if they are any good or stay if they are not, as everyone discovers; backroom staff lose their jobs; profile implodes; support wanes. We have been "top 25" for about 8 of the last 10 years - is that not consistent?

I wish he'd said "top 17", then we'd all know what he meant.

I think is was about being realistic regarding Norwich City's true status. Too many times we have heard the great plan of becoming an established Premier League team.

You are absolutely right about the negative effects of relegation on a club. It is difficult, but nobody has done it more than us. And if we are relegated again we become the outright most relegated team in Premier League history. I think that was the purpose of the statement: to provide fans an honest appraisal of our club's status. Your following post highlights that we have indeed been here before: Walker, and more recently Lambert got us promoted and he kept us there with a relatively low priced squad where Grant Holt was our "star". So it is achievable. But only if everyone is pulling in the same direction. Fans need to back the team, relegation or not. That is probably the hardest part - keeping support going through the times where we don't win for 10+ matches.

It is a lot of hard work - as you say when Farke and Webber chose to depart (or are removed - I sincerely hope not) this ethos may move with them - but I think that is the point of communicating to the fans this vision of "top 25" - to change the culture of support from one that expects Premier League football every year to one that supports the team through relegation. This way, their legacy last past their time here.

 

[lake district canary 4,530]

7 hours ago, sgncfc said:

19 hours ago, lake district canary said:

This, 100%.  The move to be sustainable and get the club working as well as possible within it's means, is proving itself as we watch.  So we are not super rich, but all the pant wetting about not having money to spend has been proven to be just that - pant wetting.  The club is now on the kind of footing we are presumably all happy about - it is functioning at it's best in pretty much all departments.  

Maintaining that healthy situation is not going to be easy as we move forwards, but we look as if we have the next three or four years at least to develop things with the present hierachy in place.  What happens after that is anyone's guess, Huddersfield have lost their way - but our stability as a club is strong and even if DS/MJW were to step aside, or if any of the management team move on, it looks as if they have in place a structure and ethos that will stand the test of time.  

One thing is for sure - money can be a help, but is not the be all and end all for having a successful club.  Get the right ethos, the right kind of players and a belief that what you are doing can be successful and the sky is the limit.

This all sounds great, but we have been here before you know - several times. Walkers team had "no stars" but a great team ethic - when he went, it went with him. If Farke or Webber go, it'll go with them too. Enjoy it while you can - there is no such thing as "long term" in football. There is no guarantee that we will be able to source good players or youngsters again like we have this season and that they will then win games. If it was as easy  as you all think everyone would be doing it.

 

I never said it would be easy - I said it won't be easy!!

Also, I'm not buying that about Walker.  I said about EVERY department of the club working well and under Walker the finances were out of control which is partly why he left. 

Also, as our club keeps that status where everthing is working well, we WILL be able to attract the right kind of players, young or old - because the club will be seen as an attractive proposition.

And if Webber or Farke leave, then the club being run well will be a major factor in be able to get someone of quality and of like mind to replace either of them. 

Getting long term success is about creating the right conditions to allow that to happen - and having got those conditions right (which imo we have) we are on the right path to at least be able to have a good crack at keeping it going.

 

[westcoastcanary 173]

9 hours ago, sgncfc said:

This all sounds great, but we have been here before you know - several times. Walkers team had "no stars" but a great team ethic - when he went, it went with him. If Farke or Webber go, it'll go with them too. Enjoy it while you can - there is no such thing as "long term" in football. There is no guarantee that we will be able to source good players or youngsters again like we have this season and that they will then win games. If it was as easy  as you all think everyone would be doing it.

Actually we haven't "been here before", ever. Previously we have always followed the traditional British model of club management which has short-termism built into it, along with near total upheaval in staff and squad with every managerial change and hence no continuity in playing style (making consistent development through all levels -- youth teams, U23, first team -- more or less impossible). To say there is no such thing as "long term" in football is simply to project the entrenched short term thinking of too many British clubs and too many fans onto the game itself.

Edited March 29, 2019 by westcoastcanary

[king canary 7,560]

20 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Changing minds is quite topical it seems.How many times have we changed our minds in three years? Yet it seems for every person changing their mind you will find another telling them it's not allowed. And that's not just over football....

This particular argument for me is exactly how you see it Kingo. If we lose and are near the bottom of the league the football is rubbish and changes need to be made from the board downwards. If we're winning and at the top of the league the football is fine and we want people that we previously wanted gone to sign new contracts. Presumably so we can want them gone again as soon as the next losing run happens.

Some might view that as fickle though...

If people call changing your mind about someone based on their performance on the pitch is fickle then I'd suggest that person is an idiot.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

If people call changing your mind about someone based on their performance on the pitch is fickle then I'd suggest that person is an idiot.

My point was the continual changing of mind depending on results and league position. I'm happy for it not to be called fickle. I'd sooner call it a weather house, but some may call it fickle. What would you call it Kingo?

But this changing of minds is very topical don't you think? If we had Westie's parliamentary debate they may decide it's ok to change your mind after 43 years but not a moment sooner or they may say three years is sufficient time to have a change of heart. I wonder if there'd be much support for 2 or 3 times a year though...

Good luck with the tickets🙃

[king canary 7,560]

16 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

My point was the continual changing of mind depending on results and league position. I'm happy for it not to be called fickle. I'd sooner call it a weather house, but some may call it fickle. What would you call it Kingo?

I've got zero interest in getting into a Brexit debate.

However I never knew using things like results and the league table to judge things was so controversial.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

I've got zero interest in getting into a Brexit debate.

However I never knew using things like results and the league table to judge things was so controversial.

I have zero interest in a Brexit debate too Kingo. Just mentioned it was topical.

I wouldn't call them controversial, or fickle. I prefer to say "weather house" or in some cases "reality fluid"....

[westcoastcanary 173]

59 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I wouldn't call them controversial, or fickle. I prefer to say "weather house" or in some cases "reality fluid"....

Over here we don't have weather houses nutty, we have weather sticks, long known to Native Americans to forewarn of wet or dry weather. I had one in my yard, but since we get so little seriously wet weather in the Valley, it forgot what it was meant to do and kept pointing upwards whatever. Bit like us Happy Clappers .......... 

[FenwayFrank 2,449]

1 minute ago, westcoastcanary said:

I had one in my yard,

A yard is still three feet over here 😉

[westcoastcanary 173]

19 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

A yard is still three feet over here 😉

Mine's a very small yard FF 

[glory.win or die. 270]

On 27/03/2019 at 22:00, Drazen Muzinic said:

Just. They won 3 of the 20 league fixtures from Xmas 2017 to the end of the season.

This season, just three wins in 31 matches.

January 2018's window brought Pritchard but the transfer dealings through the Summer and this January were woeful.

Seeing what Webber has done here, I agree gwor and I would be bold enough to say he has been the difference in the fortunes of both teams - and is likely to outstrip even what McNasty achieved if he stays as long...

 

I doubt Webber would pay £11m for a championship player. But right now I'd happily go with what we have now as long as we go up 

[Tired 102]

I wonder who's going to snap up Aaron Mooy

[sgncfc 1,221]

On 29/03/2019 at 08:51, westcoastcanary said:

Actually we haven't "been here before", ever. Previously we have always followed the traditional British model of club management which has short-termism built into it, along with near total upheaval in staff and squad with every managerial change and hence no continuity in playing style (making consistent development through all levels -- youth teams, U23, first team -- more or less impossible). To say there is no such thing as "long term" in football is simply to project the entrenched short term thinking of too many British clubs and too many fans onto the game itself.

Sorry, but you're wrong - we have very much been here before and our problem has been keeping it going when the protagonists depart. I'll repeat the point, just to make it obvious. If Farke or Webber go, what we have now will be difficult (probably impossible) to recreate. The playing style not so much (lots of teams are moving that way, or are already there) but in our case the personalities are what is driving our success, not the system. If you really think this will be a long term thing for Norwich I think you're in for a disappointment - we will have our time in the sun, though.

[East Rider 548]

10 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

 - we will have our time in the sun, though.

I sincerely hope so this time.

We slipped up late 80s early 90s and but for a few more things to go for us, we could have really had 'our day in the sun' then.

I'm hoping that the current management team stay with us for the next few seasons at least and we have some success. The ingredients are all there just need some one to prepare the icing!

 

[Essjayess 307]

Burnley are 4th from bottom, yet they have more than double the points of Fulham and Huddersfield combined. That is the reality now of how difficult its becoming for any promoted team to stay in the Prem for any length of time. Firstly i tend to  look at our club and accept that we are a yo yo club, but that in itself is a massive accomplishment, how the heck we manage to even get into the Prem time and again with practically zero ownership investment is almost unique to NCFC only.

Next, instead of comparing our club to any other club, for example Huddersfield, would rather compare this seasons (almost there!) promotion to the last one under Alex Neil. A young, inexperienced Scotsman plucked from Hamilton to take charge of an aged team who had been there...done that. In a decent position already in the division, the young Neil turbocharged his enthusiasm into the team, leading to that memorable day out at Wembley in the Play Off Final.

But then into the Prem..that whirlwind 6 months withAN hit the reality buffers quickly. His inexperience, coupled with a team more than showing its age, combined to show us all how ill equipped we were to handle the brutal rigours of life in the Prem.

So, on to this time around. We dont need rocket science to know how very difficult it will be to stay up. But as for the club itself, it has been root and branched, transformed, in a way that it wasnt last time around. There is a definite plan this time, the team may be unknown but they have youth, energy, togetherness, tinged with a modicum of experience, and a spirit that is a million miles from those that gained promotion last time out. And i believe last season was vital, not just for the players, learning new ways under a foreign manager, but for us fans, just learning to be patient with our club again!.

So please, let every fan not get to angered, impatient, disapointed, at a situation that sees City in the bottom 3, even though the guys on the pitch did their darndest. Because, staying up, going down, whatever, DF and SW and the players have given us a season thats turned out to be more than memorable and deserve our support well beyond next season, however it turns out. And even Lambo has done the perfect job down at Porterloo..its the complete perfect season to be a Canary fan, may never happen again, so treasure it guys.

[ABC (A Basingstoke Canary) 26]

2 hours ago, Essjayess said:

Burnley are 4th from bottom, yet they have more than double the points of Fulham and Huddersfield combined. That is the reality now of how difficult its becoming for any promoted team to stay in the Prem for any length of time. Firstly i tend to  look at our club and accept that we are a yo yo club, but that in itself is a massive accomplishment, how the heck we manage to even get into the Prem time and again with practically zero ownership investment is almost unique to NCFC only.

Next, instead of comparing our club to any other club, for example Huddersfield, would rather compare this seasons (almost there!) promotion to the last one under Alex Neil. A young, inexperienced Scotsman plucked from Hamilton to take charge of an aged team who had been there...done that. In a decent position already in the division, the young Neil turbocharged his enthusiasm into the team, leading to that memorable day out at Wembley in the Play Off Final.

But then into the Prem..that whirlwind 6 months withAN hit the reality buffers quickly. His inexperience, coupled with a team more than showing its age, combined to show us all how ill equipped we were to handle the brutal rigours of life in the Prem.

So, on to this time around. We dont need rocket science to know how very difficult it will be to stay up. But as for the club itself, it has been root and branched, transformed, in a way that it wasnt last time around. There is a definite plan this time, the team may be unknown but they have youth, energy, togetherness, tinged with a modicum of experience, and a spirit that is a million miles from those that gained promotion last time out. And i believe last season was vital, not just for the players, learning new ways under a foreign manager, but for us fans, just learning to be patient with our club again!.

So please, let every fan not get to angered, impatient, disapointed, at a situation that sees City in the bottom 3, even though the guys on the pitch did their darndest. Because, staying up, going down, whatever, DF and SW and the players have given us a season thats turned out to be more than memorable and deserve our support well beyond next season, however it turns out. And even Lambo has done the perfect job down at Porterloo..its the complete perfect season to be a Canary fan, may never happen again, so treasure it guys.

Totally agree with this.

The men in white coats would be on red alert if anyone suggested at the start of the season that we would be anywhere near where we are now. Remember what Webber and Farke have said - that this was a long term project and for it to happen so quickly is a pleasant surprise - and it may be a bit too early. But who at the beginning of the season wouldn't have bitten your hand off if you offered just one season in the prem? If we get there a bit early with the full plan still to emerge, then hopping between the 2 leagues for the next couple of seasons seems a small price to pay.

Anyway, who says we're not good enough to stay in the prem? And who's ambition is it to only finish 17th in the prem? I believe that we can achieve much better than that and should be aiming to do so - like maybe aiming to be a top 8 team! Now there's a scary challenge 🤪

[daly 499]

I'm sure if we get, and amazingly how many sensible posters on this site assume  we are already up by their continuous posting of what will happen when we reach TP.

Get there and then consider the options,  but the bottom 12 in TP offer nothing more than what we have and what we can achieve should we be good enough to be promoted

OTBC

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

4 hours ago, Essjayess said:

Burnley are 4th from bottom, yet they have more than double the points of Fulham and Huddersfield combined.....

Except they don't.

[Hairy Canary 667]

If we go up then one thing you can guarantee is that next season won't be anywhere near as exciting and enjoyable as this one. 

[splendidrush 698]

31 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

If we go up then one thing you can guarantee is that next season won't be anywhere near as exciting and enjoyable as this one. 

This,  and I'm saying it now, before anyone says "sour grapes" the Premiership is a cr@p product, it's no longer competitive, just a vehicle for the Big Six to  make money.

Look at the table,  every season there's a yawning chasm between 6th and 7th, off the top of my head only six Teams have won it in 25 years and the top six are normally in place by the end of September. 

I understand that we need to be there,  finances dictate that, but a Season like this one is where the excitement is.