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Good to watch these days which makes that international break less frustrating than it has often been in the past. A very healthy beginning to the campaign which surely confirms our position as one of the favourites to go all the way. The qualifiers should at least be a pushover.  

Five nil seems like a hammering but there was something a bit fortunate about all the goals. Stirling could have been adjudged off-side for the first ("benefit of the doubt" ... Hoddle,) the penalty was harsh ("not a penalty" .... Hoddle,) Stirling then had a deflected goal and a goal where he was put through by a Czech defender and the last was an unfortunate own goal.

However, and we know this from City'splay this season, fortune favours ultra quick passing offensive sides and chances, one way or the other, will always open up.

Some points: 

# Stirling is now the complete international and will surely go on to being a "great," whilst I remember a time when he frustrated to the extent that many, including myself, wanted him dropped.

# Just why James Maddison was not in the squad bemuses, especially with a few inexperienced youngsters included. Sancho was actually a bit of a passenger, although a decent showing for an eighteen years old, don't remember Rice having much influence and the Chelsea ( Hudson)youngster looked class but ultimately out of his depth.

Nevertheless, good to see those so young given a try ..... but JM is a spring chicken as well and has actually played a near season in the PL. I do realise that I have not taken respective positions into account and, after Sterling, Ross Barkley was my MoM. City get a pay day should Madders eventually win that cap?

# A glut of good full backs available.I prefer Rose, but it won't be too long before Max Aarons comes into the reckoning as well surely?

Quite looking forward to Monday's game now and here's hoping Teemu Pukki comes through the games unscathed.

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Maddison is a number 10 and England don’t play with someone in that position. It is better for him to stay in the u21s and keep getting international experience and trying to impress. I was told that Southgate has question marks about his attitude and those doubts continued after the last round of internationals. 

Sancho creates more chances than any other player on the pitch, he looks comfortable at this level already and has so much potential it is ridiculous. 

Aarons will have to get past Wan-Bissako and Walker-Peters before he can be considered for an England call-up. Considering both those players will almost certainly be playing in the Champions League next season it will be a tough task for him. 

England have one of the best cohort of young players compared to any other country in the world right now. While the changes to the academy system have disadvantaged smaller teams, it has meant young players have received the highest level of coaching. The next challenge is making sure those young players can get minutes on the pitch and with players like Sancho, Nelson etc being prepared to go abroad to play then there is real hope for their development. 

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Posted (edited)

Re: Maddison ... I mentioned the "squad."  Southgate has shown to be flexible with his tactics on occasions, even if there is a need to put numbers on their backs. I don't know about any problems with attitude sufficient enough to inhibit his inclusion.

There's no denying Sancho's talent and he had a decent game for an eighteen years old, and will clearly have a decent international future, but his age is the point.Youngsters making international debuts are usually "special" talents destined to become superstars (Maradona 16, Pele 17, Best 18 and others.) I am not prepared to put Sancho in that bracket even on tonight's showing which was patchy.

So Aarons suffers from being in an unfashionable Championship (currently) club? He'll hopefully get more of a chance to show his worth next season.

Nobody can criticise the promotion of youth, although I, personally, would want to see more of the "superstar" if and  before we reach the latter stages of this competition.Two years are available though so it will be interesting. The end will justify the means.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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I was really impressed with England tonight - the way they played was fluid and had shades of us this season. Slick passing and building from the back (Pickford's footwork almost caught him out once or twice..😉🎣)

 

As for fortune and luck..? No such thing. You make your own luck and put yourselves and the opposition in the situations that make deflections and own goals happen.

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 "No such thing. You make your own luck and put yourselves and the opposition in the situations that make deflections and own goals happen."

Which is virtually the exact thing I said DM.

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8 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Good to watch these days which makes that international break less frustrating than it has often been in the past. A very healthy beginning to the campaign which surely confirms our position as one of the favourites to go all the way. The qualifiers should at least be a pushover.  

Five nil seems like a hammering but there was something a bit fortunate about all the goals. Stirling could have been adjudged off-side for the first ("benefit of the doubt" ... Hoddle,) the penalty was harsh ("not a penalty" .... Hoddle,) Stirling then had a deflected goal and a goal where he was put through by a Czech defender and the last was an unfortunate own goal.

However, and we know this from City'splay this season, fortune favours ultra quick passing offensive sides and chances, one way or the other, will always open up.

Some points: 

# Stirling is now the complete international and will surely go on to being a "great," whilst I remember a time when he frustrated to the extent that many, including myself, wanted him dropped.

# Just why James Maddison was not in the squad bemuses, especially with a few inexperienced youngsters included. Sancho was actually a bit of a passenger, although a decent showing for an eighteen years old, don't remember Rice having much influence and the Chelsea ( Hudson)youngster looked class but ultimately out of his depth.

Nevertheless, good to see those so young given a try ..... but JM is a spring chicken as well and has actually played a near season in the PL. I do realise that I have not taken respective positions into account and, after Sterling, Ross Barkley was my MoM. City get a pay day should Madders eventually win that cap?

# A glut of good full backs available.I prefer Rose, but it won't be too long before Max Aarons comes into the reckoning as well surely?

Quite looking forward to Monday's game now and here's hoping Teemu Pukki comes through the games unscathed.

Hoddle is a prat

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7 hours ago, Drazen Muzinic said:

As for fortune and luck..? No such thing. You make your own luck and put yourselves and the opposition in the situations that make deflections and own goals happen.

So luck is real after all -- how else could you deliberately set out to increase the probability of gaining from a bit of luck? Or conversely, set out to decrease the probability of the opposition gaining from a bit of luck? Or alternatively, set out to play so that the opposition have to rely on luck to score? I remember reading a quote from an internationally famous coach to the effect that his primary task as a coach was to try to manage the role that luck plays in the game. 

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5 minutes ago, king canary said:

Not to be a pedant but it's 'Sterling' not 'Stirling'

A sterling effort kc ........... :classic_biggrin:

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Posted (edited)

Worth his weight in pounds stirling,  er. Sterling.

At least I got "Maddison" right. I can never usually remember whether it's two of "d" or two of "s."

Btw. Do you think Chris Houghton's Brighton will win the FA Cup this season?

Edited by BroadstairsR
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8 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

I was told that Southgate has question marks about his attitude and those doubts continued after the last round of internationals. 

Question marks about what exactly Bethnal? Does he mean fitting in as a cog in the team mechanism rather than just "being James Maddison"? Our experience this season and last would lend some support to those kinds of reservations?

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Maddison and attitude problem in the same sentence is laughable.  It's nonsense!

I thought Sancho was poor tbh.  Alli had an anonymous game. Chilwell impressed me.  Obviously Sterling was good.  However, despite Sterling's 'hat-trick' the player who impressed me the most was Ross Barkley.  Barkley surprised me.  If I'm honest I'd written him off a bit the last couple of years, but he was excellent in that role last night.

Some excellent, slick, quick, clever forward play from England last night.  It was a bit like watching Norwich!

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38 minutes ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

Some excellent, slick, quick, clever forward play from England last night.  It was a bit like watching Norwich!

Until Barkley came on, the England midfield looked more like ours last season rather than this. Surely there's more first choice midfield talent available to Southgate than a combination of Henderson and Dier?

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Henderson and Dier is a strange combination for me. I don’t particularly rate Dier, but if the plan is for the full backs to bomb forward, then Dier can drop back in to centre half so you have extra cover there (similar to how he has played at Spurs). Henderson I actually do rate but not if you’ve got Dier in there too, especially against the so called smaller sides. 

11 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

So Aarons suffers from being in an unfashionable Championship (currently) club? He'll hopefully get more of a chance to show his worth next season.

Nothing to do with him being at an “unfashionable” club. He’s had a good season, but let’s not get carried away. There are players in his position who already have champions league or top level premier league experience (or both). It’s a big step up from championship football to top half of the prem/European football. If we go up and he has a really good season next year, then I’d imagine he will be in and around the international squad but there are still likely to be others ahead of him in the pecking order.

Re Maddison, I think he’s likely to be in squads in the future, as an alternative option. However, Southgate (rightly) picks players to suit how he wants to play, he doesn’t just pick names. If we aren’t usually going to play with a “Maddison role” then there are others (such as Barkley and Alli) who can play other positions but can also drop into a “Maddison role” if we want/need to change the system up. 

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I thought we looked better when Dier went off. We then seemed to play higher up the pitch. Maybe if you are playing Spain you might need two sitting deeper but against less gifted opposition I think we can dispense with one of them.

I'm not sure whether Barkley is the answer in that position. He looked impressive when he came on the scene but his career stagnated at Everton and he doesn't spend enough time on the pitch at Chelsea to demonstrate his ability. With two wide players in  Sterling and ANOther, I think we just need a passer in the middle not a runner. Maybe Maddison doesn't fit that. Rice isn't that type either. Not sure who then.

But considering the players who were missing, the future looks good and well done to Southgate for picking form players instead of the in crowd that former managers seemed to prefer.

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We played well, but the time to tell if they can win the World Cup, comes when we play that way, in hot weather.

For now we are doing well in Europe.

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Southgates England team has the same attitude as Farkes Norwich team and it is full of team players not necessarily the best players. They do not carry anyone so if you don’t work for 90 minutes you don’t get in no matter who you are.

Went last night and watching these players altogether gave you the wow factor. Never really rated Henderson watching him on TV but live wow he breaks up everything and some of his passing is like what you would expect from from a top playmaker in midfield. Seeing Sterling, Sancho and Endoi coming at you at pace is scary and the defenders are just so physically big. 

Great to see a few Dortmund supporters there as well last night to support Sancho.

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3 hours ago, westcoastcanary said:

Question marks about what exactly Bethnal? Does he mean fitting in as a cog in the team mechanism rather than just "being James Maddison"? Our experience this season and last would lend some support to those kinds of reservations?

Apparently Maddison can be a bit of a ‘billy big balls’ and he’s fallen out with 3 of his last 4 managers (not including Rodgers). Southgate puts a lot of importance on attitude and he apparently wasn’t overly impressed with Maddison when he trained with the England squad before. I think he was the only outfield player in the squad to not get an appearance during those games. 

I’m sure he’ll get at least one cap in the future, but staying with the U21s and doing a tournament with them is probably what he needs. 

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Posted (edited)

For the first twenty minutes I was thinking Norwich would beat this England team as they tried to play the Norwich way, but not as well as we do. Then Barklay came on and changed the game completely. The passing was quicker, crisper, better running off the ball and at that point England vs Norwich would have been a really great game to watch.

It demonstrates the advantages of a pacy, pressing game as by the end the opposition defenders were shot to pieces and that crazy own goal was a result of the defender totally shell-shocked by the end of the game.

I'd given up on England before Southgate came along so it's great to see a young intelligent manager putting together a technically efficient team that is also exciting to watch and made up of a solid spine of experience and the youthful freedom to express themselves. That's true for both Southgate and Farke.

Quote

 

 

Edited by Rock The Boat

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I was driving so only managed to listen to the first half on the radio. It was hilarious listening to Chris Waddle complaining about England being too slow in possession; it was just like listening to the people in the river end shouting "get it forward". There are quite a lot of similarities between how England and Norwich play. Some people still struggle to understand how modern football has moved on from the days of lumping it up for the big man to win.

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1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Apparently Maddison can be a bit of a ‘billy big balls’ and he’s fallen out with 3 of his last 4 managers (not including Rodgers). Southgate puts a lot of importance on attitude and he apparently wasn’t overly impressed with Maddison when he trained with the England squad before. I think he was the only outfield player in the squad to not get an appearance during those games. 

I’m sure he’ll get at least one cap in the future, but staying with the U21s and doing a tournament with them is probably what he needs. 

Not quite sure how to read this Bethnal. Does that imply he fell out with Farke?  

Assuming that he didn't fall out with Farke then that seems to say something for our manager's ability to handle players that other managers can't. 

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2 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Not quite sure how to read this Bethnal. Does that imply he fell out with Farke?  

Assuming that he didn't fall out with Farke then that seems to say something for our manager's ability to handle players that other managers can't. 

I'd take a stab at Puel, Neil and McInnes

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Alex Neil was unable to cope with him, but his ability was so, so clear - you just had to look at his goal on loan against Rangers which was utterly sensational. 

Farke was different - he let the boy have the chance to prove himself and often that is all a player needs - a chance. DF has done it with others too and that has worked too. It all suggests that Farke is a cool customer when it comes to dealing with players with talent. 

Southgate probably sees an excellent player but one who he thinks is over confident when he sees him in training - but then Maddison has proved himself at every level he has been given a chance in so he just needs to be given a chance and imo he would quickly make himself undroppable. But then if Southgate can't handle him, he won't get that chance.....

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38 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Alex Neil was unable to cope with him, but his ability was so, so clear - you just had to look at his goal on loan against Rangers which was utterly sensational. 

Farke was different - he let the boy have the chance to prove himself and often that is all a player needs - a chance. DF has done it with others too and that has worked too. It all suggests that Farke is a cool customer when it comes to dealing with players with talent. 

Southgate probably sees an excellent player but one who he thinks is over confident when he sees him in training - but then Maddison has proved himself at every level he has been given a chance in so he just needs to be given a chance and imo he would quickly make himself undroppable. But then if Southgate can't handle him, he won't get that chance.....

If he doesn't suit the managers plans,LDC,  he'll never get picked. I doubt very much that Southgate " can't handle' him. 'Cant stand him' ....maybe,. But it's much more likely that he doesn't  need him in the system (s) he is using. Don't get me wrong, Maddison is decent , but I see no travesty in him not being included. We shouldn't let our judgement of players be clouded by the jersey they once wore.

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Truth is, we've never played our most talented midfielders, Gazza could have been one of the greats but was poorly managed, Hoddle wasn't protected and didn't get nearly enough caps. Going back, how many times did Alan Hudson play for England? and Tony Currie, was never given a chance. The trouble with genius is it's often flawed, George Best  being a prime example. That's  why the true legends of the game are all foreign, we don't allow ours to express themselves. Look at some of the dross that have worn the England shirt and compare them with Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Baresi, Maradona, Messi, Pele the list goes on. 

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4 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

If he doesn't suit the managers plans,LDC,  he'll never get picked. I doubt very much that Southgate " can't handle' him. 'Cant stand him' ....maybe,. But it's much more likely that he doesn't  need him in the system (s) he is using. Don't get me wrong, Maddison is decent , but I see no travesty in him not being included. We shouldn't let our judgement of players be clouded by the jersey they once wore.

That would seem about on the money to me.

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