Krull Footwork

[Making Plans 936]

Piddling about at the back, which I appreciate is how we play, is like crossing the road.

It should only be attempted when you have looked both ways and you are happy that it is safe to do so.

Last night it clearly wasn't safe to do so and although we got run over we were able to carry on.

This is not the first time it has happened and worringly it is becoming a regular occurance just lately.

One of these times it will cost us.

Nobody can play perfect football for 90 minutes and there is no shame in hoofing into the stands when that is the safest option.

 

[Aggy 752]

10 hours ago, Alfie54 said:

Swansea keeper was very confident with the ball at his feet

True, but that’s one keeper from the 23 other clubs. And it’s one who was (a) purchased when Swansea were a prem club and (b) hasn’t even been a guaranteed starter this season. Anyone else?

Point being, Krul isn’t particularly worse than anyone else in the division. He might not be the best either, but there aren’t many top keepers who can also play the ball out at a high level and who are willing to play at/are affordable for a championship club (especially one who had no money to spend on a keeper in the summer).

10 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Exactly the point....  he lost confidence second-half, kicked it long and we lost possession... if we are going to play this way long term, GK is the position we will need to improve as part of the ongoing development of the squad.... just saying... don't think these comments are unreasonable especially as they relate to moving forward not what's passed.    This forum is all about opinions... but any suggestion we can develop this style of playing from the back with Krul long-term, has to be a sentimental judgement not a realistic one.      

We don't have options at the moment; perhaps Remi Matthews was a better solution than McGovern as back up for this season....hindsight is a wonderful thing of course...      ultimately, the club haven't made many mistakes and this team is getting better and better.   

Which is a far more reasonable post than the first one which suggested that championship standard keepers shouldn’t make mistakes 1 in 30 times, that Krul’s footwork isn’t good enough and that he makes too many mistakes for this level (ie; he isn’t good enough for the championship).

I’m not a huge fan of Krul and wouldn’t be surprised if we do replace him if we go up. But to suggest that he makes too many mistakes at this level (whilst other championship keepers don’t) or that his footwork is worse than most keepers in this division is just not true. He’s a decent championship keeper.

[king canary 7,580]

2 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I’m not a huge fan of Krul and wouldn’t be surprised if we do replace him if we go up. But to suggest that he makes too many mistakes at this level (whilst other championship keepers don’t) or that his footwork is worse than most keepers in this division is just not true. He’s a decent championship keeper.

I didn't see the game last night so can't comment on that but my overall sense is Krul has been directly responsible for more goals than most of our recent keepers. Not in the 'should have done better' sort of way but in the 'this mistake led directly to a goal' sort of way.

[Aggy 752]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I didn't see the game last night so can't comment on that but my overall sense is Krul has been directly responsible for more goals than most of our recent keepers. Not in the 'should have done better' sort of way but in the 'this mistake led directly to a goal' sort of way.

Perhaps, but then which is worse a few howlers or loads of “should have done better”s.

Ruddy used to get beaten from 30 yards far too regularly - down to poor positioning. Gunn got beaten at his front post to fairly soft efforts a good few times last season. In both cases, “should have done better” rather than howlers, but it all adds up.

Take Krul’s admittedly wobbly first few games out and there isn’t much to pick on. He will make mistakes - even prem keepers do - but I don’t think he’s any worse than most other keepers at this level.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Aggy

[Hairy Canary 668]

37 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

Piddling about at the back, which I appreciate is how we play, is like crossing the road.

It should only be attempted when you have looked both ways and you are happy that it is safe to do so.

Last night it clearly wasn't safe to do so and although we got run over we were able to carry on.

This is not the first time it has happened and worringly it is becoming a regular occurance just lately.

One of these times it will cost us.

Nobody can play perfect football for 90 minutes and there is no shame in hoofing into the stands when that is the safest option.

 

If you think we piddle about at the back then you haven't understood Farkeball. 

[king canary 7,580]

1 minute ago, Aggy said:

Perhaps, but then which is worse a few howlers or loads of “should have done better”s.

Ruddy used to get beaten from 30 yards far too regularly - down to poor positioning. Gunn got beaten at his front post to fairly soft efforts a good few times last season. In both cases, “should have done better” rather than howlers, but it all adds up.

Take Krul’s admittedly wobbly first few games out and there isn’t much to pick on. He will make mistakes - even prem keepers do - but I don’t think he’s any worse than most other keepers at this level.

I agree with your last sentence- he's fine at this level.

I just don't have a great deal of faith in him at times and he's been lucky he's not cost us in the past- against Leeds and Ipswich he looked dodgy on crosses and was quite lucky none of those errors led to goals. Fundamentally I think Gunn is a far better keeper than him and there isn't much to pick between Krul and Ruddy.

[Making Plans 936]

6 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

If you think we piddle about at the back then you haven't understood Farkeball. 

In fact I do but even Farkeball doesn't include taking unecessary risks.

And to quote the man he said "We had one mistake and that could change your whole world in football, but luckily it didn't."

[Fuzzar 1,702]

Any less than complimentary comments about any of our players might easily be viewed as nit-picking as we're having such a brilliant season.

Krul is absolutely my first choice keeper for this season in the Chumps, given the available choices. But if we get promoted, quick players like Campbell abound, and having him as our automatic first choice keeper next season would make me really nervous!

[canarydan23 4,060]

Has anyone mentioned the one that went through his hands as well and fortuitously fell at the feet of Godfrey rather than into the net or to a Hull player.

I love Krul, he seems to be an asset in the dressing room and gets the fans going. However, he's made a few too many blunders this season and whilst it would be cruel (haha) if we go up this season then a first choice number one needs to be a priority. Keep Krul around and let him play League Cup games, if he's willing.

[Nuff Said 5,092]

15 minutes ago, king canary said:

I didn't see the game last night so can't comment on that but my overall sense is Krul has been directly responsible for more goals than most of our recent keepers. Not in the 'should have done better' sort of way but in the 'this mistake led directly to a goal' sort of way.

You're very quick to pick up other posters for inconsistencies KC, so I'm not letting you away with this b******s!

 

By "my overall sense is" you mean "I don't like the bloke but don't have any evidence". If you do believe he's been directly at fault for several goals, tell us when. And everyone is going to make a mistake or two in the course of a season, there needs to be more than that to show he genuinely is more of a liability than our other recent keepers.

[GenerationA47 750]

This is how DF ‘blows his top’ (loose translation of video title)- at great length.

Hope Krul &/or Godfrey had a spare hour or three for the dressing-down.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I cannot see how some can reconcile that Krul was doing what he is expected to do, no problem with it, it is a risk that is worth taking but blame Godfrey for not hoofing it into touch. He was keeping the ball alive and Krul tried to play it off the wrong foot and took too long.

Pugh hit a screamer, even though I think he could have been sent off earlier for a scissor tackle.

[Ian 1,129]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

I didn't see the game last night so can't comment on that but my overall sense is Krul has been directly responsible for more goals than most of our recent keepers. Not in the 'should have done better' sort of way but in the 'this mistake led directly to a goal' sort of way.

How many goals would you say his mistakes have led to directly? 3?

[king canary 7,580]

Just now, Ian said:

How many goals would you say his mistakes have led to directly? 3?

Off the top of my head...

West Brom

Leeds

Millwall

Hull

That is without looking into it in much depth.

[canarydan23 4,060]

3 is being generous.

He was directly at fault for two against West Brom in August; a suicidal lunge at Gayle that led to a penalty and the flap at Rodriguez. And then you've got last night's howler for 3 already. There have been several more this season, in particular easy holds that he has pushed back into the attacker for a goal rather than catch the damn thing or turn it around the post.

[Van wink 2,994]

Made some great saves too...

[canarydan23 4,060]

Leeds at home, I'd forgotten about that. I don't think you'd be too harsh to blame two of them on Krul. A relatively straightforward header that he could have stood still and caught but leapt in the air and punched it direct to a Leeds player before being beaten awfully at his near post.

[Ian 1,129]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

3 is being generous.

He was directly at fault for two against West Brom in August; a suicidal lunge at Gayle that led to a penalty and the flap at Rodriguez. And then you've got last night's howler for 3 already. There have been several more this season, in particular easy holds that he has pushed back into the attacker for a goal rather than catch the damn thing or turn it around the post.

Depends how you define directly responsible though doesn't it? If you rephrase it to "should have done better" then of course you're going to be looking at several goals. But all keepers are going to make parries and rely on their defence to clean up - look at Marshall last night (who had an excellent game overall) with our second.

Krul definitely seems prone to the odd major ****-up, but I seem to recall Angus making several last season, and Ruddy before that. Wonder how he compares to other keepers in the division?

[canarydan23 4,060]

I don't recall too many Angus Gunn could have done better with last season. He got beat a few times at his near post but then so has Krul.

I remember Farke saying after the WBA game that keepers will experience a howler and that Krul has had his for the season in the West Brom game. By anyone's definition he's had at least three (WBA, last night and *that* Millwall throw) and by a lot of other people's definition he's had half a dozen.

If you're going to add should have done betters to the list then it gets a lot longer.

He has made some cracking saves this season as well and we got him for free so you can't grumble a great deal but I don't think he has done anywhere near enough this season to make people wonder why Chris Hughton did not think he was a starting Premier League keeper anymore and if we do go up, I think Farke will have to adopt a similar opinion.

[Ian 1,129]

7 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I don't recall too many Angus Gunn could have done better with last season. He got beat a few times at his near post but then so has Krul.

I remember Farke saying after the WBA game that keepers will experience a howler and that Krul has had his for the season in the West Brom game. By anyone's definition he's had at least three (WBA, last night and *that* Millwall throw) and by a lot of other people's definition he's had half a dozen.

If you're going to add should have done betters to the list then it gets a lot longer.

He has made some cracking saves this season as well and we got him for free so you can't grumble a great deal but I don't think he has done anywhere near enough this season to make people wonder why Chris Hughton did not think he was a starting Premier League keeper anymore and if we do go up, I think Farke will have to adopt a similar opinion.

Recall Gunn getting beaten at his near post way too easily several times (as you say), and also being beaten in the air by strikers who can't use their arms. I'm sure there were others but I don't really think there's much point in digging them out.

I think everyone agrees Krul has made too many mistakes this season, but as you say, you have to balance it up with everything he brings to the team, along with our budget restrictions and availability of alternatives. What's to say that his experience and organisation of our very young defence, and general dominance in the air hasn't saved us more goals than his mistakes have cost us?

I also think the one last night was a real panicky error, but compounded by a poor backpass from Godfrey and the lack of covering players for our midfield. Also it was a top finish by Pugh, but just underlines how narrow the margins are for goalkeepers.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Ian
typo

[Woodman 92]

You can't underestimate what his experience brings to the defence too.  A young defence, being asked (and doing well) to play Farkeball.  Of course he knows the best time to hit it long, but was given a poor pass last night and unfortunately didn't deal with it as he ought to have done.  That set the tone in the 2nd half with the stupid, ironic cheering from the river end when he launched it long (resulting in us losing possession).  There are still too many people in our crowd who need to learn how we play these days.

[Nuff Said 5,092]

Looks to me like lots of confirmation bias on this thread with people seeing what they want to see, and ignoring evidence to the contrary. TBF, on both sides of the argument, but it doesn't alter the generally accepted position that he's the best we've got. IMHO, one of the best we could have got. He's a good fit in a team with an unusual amount of inexperienced players.

[king canary 7,580]

9 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Looks to me like lots of confirmation bias on this thread with people seeing what they want to see, and ignoring evidence to the contrary. TBF, on both sides of the argument, but it doesn't alter the generally accepted position that he's the best we've got. IMHO, one of the best we could have got. He's a good fit in a team with an unusual amount of inexperienced players.

So you asked for examples, people gave them to you and you dismiss them as confirmation bias with no reason given...

[canarydan23 4,060]

"Looks to me like lots of confirmation bias on this thread with people seeing what they want to see, and ignoring evidence to the contrary."

Indeed it does!

[sgncfc 1,223]

Having previously criticized Krul and been unjustly hammered for it, I am reluctant to join in this time. I still don't think he's a very good goalkeeper but his form recently had improved. Last night he was poor again - from early on when he completely failed to line up the wall properly for the Bowen free kick - which he wasn't even close to - to the dropped catch, to the failure to get anywhere near saving either goal, to not coming out for the ball which Zimmermann was fortunate not to concede a penalty from when clearing.

My point has always been that on top of the occasional forgivable error, he just doesn't do enough to dominate his area of the pitch and we concede goals from a high percentage of shots on target. 11 clean sheets is a 30% return so far. Angus Gunn last year was at over 32% and we finished 14th. John Ruddy for Wolves was at 62%. Etheridge for Cardiff at 43%. Whilst I accept there are other factors in terms of the defence as a whole, Krul's performances are statistically not those of a goalkeeper generally associated with a promoted team. I don't think there's really any doubt that we would need to buy a new first choice if we get promoted, just as Wolves have.

BUT although last night's poor kick ended up in a goal conceded, it wasn't solely down to him as other errors have been. Godfrey gave him a very poor pass, and Hull made 3 passes (including the shot) after Krul's error none of which were challenged or closed down - Zimmermann and Maclean in particular should have done better in recovery - and it was a cracking finish. 

Godfrey lost Martin for the second Hull goal as well, so mainly his fault, but again there was no anticipation or particular effort by Krul to dominate a part of the pitch which is supposed to be his - Martin scored from the edge of the 6 yard box and Krul was still on his line. When the ball was delivered they are both the same distance from where it is ultimately headed from and Krul doesn't move. I'm not saying he should have saved it, just that he could have if he was a better keeper.

However, like everyone else, if they keep winning I couldn't give a monkeys about how Krul plays. It just makes winning a bit harder.

[Van wink 2,994]

37 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

"Looks to me like lots of confirmation bias on this thread with people seeing what they want to see, and ignoring evidence to the contrary."

Indeed it does!

Is it a good time to be running threads slagging off our keeper?

[king canary 7,580]

7 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Is it a good time to be running threads slagging off our keeper?

I don't think he'll read it...

[Van wink 2,994]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't think he'll read it...

Probably ok then

[hogesar 9,618]

I think after a shaky start that was blown a little out of proportion he's been a good keeper this season. He certainly fits our style of play much better than, for example, Ruddy would have done.

The more he's played the better he's got and as Farke and others have mentioned, he's saved us more points than he's cost us so i'm not sure where the issue is.

As for why he didn't just "kick it long" and "why do we f*ck about with it at the back" (all comments repeated at half time by fans a million times) then how about you look at how we score our goals. A huge amount come from us passing around the back, involving Krul, encouraging the opposition to press and giving one of our holding midfielders space to receive and turn with the ball. Yes, of course Krul should have just tried to hoof it clear but it was a difficult pass from Godfrey and when a style of play is ingrained into you, as a player you're not really looking at the clock and he tried to do what we always do (unfortunately there was no pass on to the right with Aarons caught up and Zimmerman surrounded).

Is he good enough for next season if we're promoted? History suggests yes. Overall form this season suggests possibly. Either way he needs more competition in that position.

[SwindonCanary 455]

I'm always worried, when a team is pressing us and we continue to pass it around the back. basically inviting trouble.