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Alex Moss

Norwich City v Hull City match thread

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30 minutes ago, Ian said:

How many teams play with a back four with an average age of 24? Would you sacrifice the youth and commitment in our squad for more experience and Championship nous?

No. And it isn't even 24: Zimmermann 26, Godfrey 21, Lewis 21, Aarons 18/19= Avg age under 22

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1 hour ago, westcoastcanary said:

I've been getting a lot of stick on other threads for saying that Leeds and Sheffield Utd are better than us in important respects, a story the stats have been telling throughout the season, and still are telling. Do people really think that either Leeds or Sheffield Utd would keep letting sides back into the game with the regularity that we do? 

No, that's just sh yte that the not too bright seek to try and understand the game.

The current 'stats' are that we are top by two points. The rest is just meaningless guff consumed by those with mild Aspergers.

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1 minute ago, Bill said:

No, that's just sh yte that the not too bright seek to try and understand the game.

The current 'stats' are that we are top by two points. The rest is just meaningless guff consumed by those with mild Aspergers.

I find myself agreeing with our Bill here..... 

Hmmmm.

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2 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

I find myself agreeing with our Bill here..... 

Hmmmm.

stats ?

absolutely marvellous, far better than watching the game

everytime 😏

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39 minutes ago, C.I.D said:

If only we were Middlesboro 😮

They've had a dismal March though, if this keeps up they won't make the playoffs

March 2 Middlesboro 1 -2 Brentford

March 9 Wigan 0 - 0 Middlesboro

March 13 Middlesboro 1 - 2 Preston

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11 hours ago, kick it off said:

Maybe that's because they don't establish a lead with the frequency that we do. Easier to lose a lead if you have one I would suggest.

This is the key point. The fact we've got more wins, points and similar goal differences suggests that while we might sometimes make things more nervous than they should be that we're also putting ourselves in commanding positions more often.

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10 hours ago, Daz Sparks said:

"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital"

Today's moment of genius, well said Daz!!!! 

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6 minutes ago, king canary said:

This is the key point. The fact we've got more wins, points and similar goal differences suggests that while we might sometimes make things more nervous than they should be that we're also putting ourselves in commanding positions more often.

We currently have exactly the same number of wins as Leeds, and only one more than Sheffield Utd!

And regarding "putting ourselves in commanding positions", the point I keep making is that what we actually do is put ourselves in what should be commanding positions, but seldom manage to maintain command.

Do any of you people ever listen to DF? His post-match comments were pretty much saying the same as what I was saying.

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2 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said:

We currently have exactly the same number of wins as Leeds, and only one more than Sheffield Utd!

And regarding "putting ourselves in commanding positions", the point I keep making is that what we actually do is put ourselves in what should be commanding positions, but seldom manage to maintain command.

Do any of you people ever listen to DF? His post-match comments were pretty much saying the same as what I was saying.

But how come we've got a better goal difference than Leeds and basically the same as Sheffield United? Because we're clearly getting into those 2 or 3 goal leads more often than they are. 

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3 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said:

We currently have exactly the same number of wins as Leeds, and only one more than Sheffield Utd!

And regarding "putting ourselves in commanding positions", the point I keep making is that what we actually do is put ourselves in what should be commanding positions, but seldom manage to maintain command.

Do any of you people ever listen to DF? His post-match comments were pretty much saying the same as what I was saying.

I think the point you are missing west coast is that he says it once in a balanced and dare I say knowledgeable assessment of the game, you however repeat the same point over and over, in a not very imaginative or interesting way. Akin to a child pestering for a biscuit.

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1 minute ago, king canary said:

But how come we've got a better goal difference than Leeds and basically the same as Sheffield United? Because we're clearly getting into those 2 or 3 goal leads more often than they are. 

What you mean is that we rely on outscoring teams because we are poor at shutting opponents out. Don't just look at GD, look also at GA: Norwich 47, Leeds 38, Sheffield Utd 34. 

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11 hours ago, Daz Sparks said:

I find myself agreeing with our Bill here..... 

Hmmmm.

Me too Daz. First time that's happened. What can it mean? My wife says it can happen to any man. Yours, worried of Sprowston.

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1 minute ago, Hairy Canary said:

Me too Daz. First time that's happened. What can it mean? My wife says it can happen to any man. Yours, worried of Sprowston.

 

1 minute ago, Hairy Canary said:

I find myself agreeing with our Bill here..... 

Hmmmm.

The most damning indictment of Westcoasts opinions yet.

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1 minute ago, Hairy Canary said:

Me too Daz. First time that's happened. What can it mean? My wife says it can happen to any man. Yours, worried of Sprowston.

Don’t worry HC, Bill will doubtless post an antidote fairly soon. 

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Great result, and i'm not sure Westcoasts point is all that valid. Looking at the expected goals, Hulls was 0.6, ours was 2.4. The first goal was a silly error; they barely had a sniff all game yet we could have scored plenty more.

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Do any of you people ever listen to DF? His post-match comments were pretty much saying the same as what I was saying.

I didn't read anything in his post match comments that compared us in any way to Leeds or Sheffield United or that they wouldn't let a two goal lead slip. In fact he was probably more annoyed with the players for not scoring more goals not defending them. Saying that we should have been 7-1 up indicates a team that believes in its style of play and runs the risk, with two full backs playing such a prominent part of our attack, of conceding but believes we can score more.

I don't follow the reasoning about goal difference. If it is better than the rest (yes I know the Blades are one better than us at the moment) then how it is achieved is the only way that matters. Much preferable to Middlesborough's 40-28. We have scored in excess of their combined total. And we are top.

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5 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said:

What you mean is that we rely on outscoring teams because we are poor at shutting opponents out. Don't just look at GD, look also at GA: Norwich 47, Leeds 38, Sheffield Utd 34. 

Our strength is creating and scoring goals, dear I say it, probably better than any other team in this division. Why on earth would you look to compromise that strength in an attempt to improve our defending when playing this way has taken us so far!

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5 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:
  9 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said:

What you mean is that we rely on outscoring teams because we are poor at shutting opponents out. Don't just look at GD, look also at GA: Norwich 47, Leeds 38, Sheffield Utd 34. 

But surely , first criteria is Points...we're top, then GD, we're just behind SU, then goals scored, Top again. In fact goals conceded is the Fourth most important criteria in deciding who is above who. If we miss out on goals conceded , then i will not only take my hat off to you westo, i will donate €20 to the charity (bona fide only) of your choice.

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4 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

But surely , first criteria is Points...we're top, then GD, we're just behind SU, then goals scored, Top again. In fact goals conceded is the Fourth most important criteria in deciding who is above who. If we miss out on goals conceded , then i will not only take my hat off to you westo, i will donate €20 to the charity (bona fide only) of your choice.

Agree with your general theme. I feel Westcoast has a point if all he’s really saying is Norwich aren’t perfect & the team needs to try to keep improving in as many areas as possible from now till May. Promo’s no given* and I still think the Prem’s a world away from our level.

(*small example: while we’re nicely ahead & in driving seat, SU’s form has marginally been overtaking ours over the last month... 9 games unbeaten ain’t bad)

And my mate Pedantic Percival says on “fourth most important criteria”, if GD and GF are tied then goals against is redundant 🤓

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6 minutes ago, GenerationA47 said:

 I feel Westcoast has a point if all he’s really saying is Norwich aren’t perfect

But why does he have to keep saying it over and over again. I think everyone realises that we're not perfect. At the moment we're the best in the league , that's ok for me .

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9 minutes ago, GenerationA47 said:

if GD and GF are tied then goals against is redundant 🤓

But they are not, so it isnt. 

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51 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said:

We currently have exactly the same number of wins as Leeds, and only one more than Sheffield Utd!

And regarding "putting ourselves in commanding positions", the point I keep making is that what we actually do is put ourselves in what should be commanding positions, but seldom manage to maintain command.

Do any of you people ever listen to DF? His post-match comments were pretty much saying the same as what I was saying.

So what actually is your point Westcoast? That we should be better and put games to bed, and certainly stop conceding poor goals at poor times in games?

I don't think you would find a City fan who disagrees with that, but let me turn it on its head and ask what you would do to change it? And how much of it is a natural consequence of the way we play which has lead to us scoring so many goals and being at the top of the table with 9 games to play?

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4 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

But they are not, so it isnt. 

Yup. My boring point was that once you’ve considered GD and GF, GA is already accounted for... so is not even a criterion. If anything, this supports what you said

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44 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

Our strength is creating and scoring goals, dear I say it, probably better than any other team in this division. Why on earth would you look to compromise that strength in an attempt to improve our defending when playing this way has taken us so far!

I said last season that if you're great at one end of the pitch you have to be at least above average at the other end to actually be successful. 15 teams have conceded more than us which suggest defensively we're not the best but we're perfectly serviceable but we're superb at the other end. Being a top 10 defense is fine if you're the number one attack. 

 

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10 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

But why does he have to keep saying it over and over again. I think everyone realises that we're not perfect. At the moment we're the best in the league , that's ok for me .

Dunno. From what I’ve read all over here, Westcoast may actually  enjoy being the board contrarian. Or maybe  it’s how he manages his own expectations, in case we F it up.. 

Just saying in general it’s ok to analyse weaknesses and threats ... including in a time of strength... that’s long term thinking.

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I said last season that if you're great at one end of the pitch you have to be at least above average at the other end to actually be successful. 15 teams have conceded more than us which suggest defensively we're not the best but we're perfectly serviceable but we're superb at the other end. Being a top 10 defense is fine if you're the number one attack. 

 

Agreed, and I don't think you can treat the two things as independent of each other either. Everyone knows it's not just the back four and keeper responsible for defending, it's the team throughout. When you're playing with such attacking fullbacks (and even CBs when you look at Godfrey), along with players like Hernandez and Buendia it's fair to say you're going to leave gaps in transition that can be exploited.
 

Edited by Ian
Typo

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Are we good enough to get promoted - yes.

Is this team good enough for the Prem? Probably not, but that is something to think about later when we are promoted, although I'm sure Webber and Farke have given it some thought already. Given how successful the recruitment has been since Webber and Farke came in, I trust that they would seek to strengthen the squad, but I also trust them to not spend money for the sake of it.

If we are in the Prem and have Krul on the bench and a better goalie between the sticks we will be happy, but good goalies can be very expensive, and Pickford has shown recently how quickly they can become a liability. We have to hope that the scouting team have more gems lined up for next season, and given their track record so far I trust that they have.

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In any case @westcoastcanary's stat in bobbins anyway, goals against is a very blunt measure. 11 of those goals were conceded in the first 5 games, whereas we have only conceded 14 in the League since the turn of the year. 

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