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Alex Moss

Norwich City v Hull City match thread

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13 hours ago, Bill said:

No, that's just sh yte that the not too bright seek to try and understand the game.

The current 'stats' are that we are top by two points. The rest is just meaningless guff consumed by those with mild Aspergers.

 

1 hour ago, Hairy Canary said:

Me too Daz. First time that's happened. What can it mean? My wife says it can happen to any man. Yours, worried of Sprowston.

I'd be seriously worried too if I took enough notice of Bill to agree with him. After all, he thinks we've just given a new contract to someone who isn't too bright, doesn't really understand the game, and suffers from a mild form of Aspergers!

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2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

I think the point you are missing west coast is that he says it once in a balanced and dare I say knowledgeable assessment of the game, you however repeat the same point over and over, in a not very imaginative or interesting way. Akin to a child pestering for a biscuit.

The analogy I would use is a parent constantly reminding his 4 and 5 year olds to stop at the kerb and look both ways :classic_biggrin: What I see on here is people who apparently haven't learn't anything despite being hit by the same bus time after time. 

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42 minutes ago, BigFish said:

In any case @westcoastcanary's stat in bobbins anyway, goals against is a very blunt measure. 11 of those goals were conceded in the first 5 games, whereas we have only conceded 14 in the League since the turn of the year. 

See, now those are stats...in perspective.  

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1 hour ago, Ian said:

So what actually is your point Westcoast? That we should be better and put games to bed, and certainly stop conceding poor goals at poor times in games?

I don't think you would find a City fan who disagrees with that, but let me turn it on its head and ask what you would do to change it? And how much of it is a natural consequence of the way we play which has lead to us scoring so many goals and being at the top of the table with 9 games to play?

Thank you for injecting a bit of seriousness into the debate.

Is what I'm criticising a natural consequence of the way we play? Yes and no. No, because plenty of teams in many different leagues play as we do, but are better at managing the game when out of possession. Yes, because our particular realisation of this way of playing doesn't strike the right balance between incisive offensive play and solid defensive play. I think this is particularly true of our performances at home, less so when we play away.

Balance can be an issue with whatever system you play. I think the crucial thing is to accept that, for sustained success, being tight at the back has to be prioritised. A good example is Wolves last season and this. Nuno (an ex-goalkeeper) makes his priorities pretty clear by his commitment to 3:5:2, despite which Wolves walked the Championship scoring as freely as us (82 goals in total) and garnering 99 points (which we have the possibility of matching or even exceeding). At the same time they finished with a GD of +43 made possible by conceding fewer goals than any other team in the league that year (matched only by Cardiff). If you look at why they are doing so well this year in the EPL, the primary reason is solid defence; only four teams, Man City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea, have conceded fewer goals after 30 games. So, while their goals per game have dropped significantly faced by the better defences in the EPL, they are nevertheless the only team outside the top 6 with a positive GD.

Despite everything good that's happened in the last two years from our point of view, what I see is history repeating itself and a lesson not yet learned. DF's Dortmund team were notable for their miserliness in conceding goals. Their success wasn't based on bailing out poor defence by scoring freely, the story of our ephemeral promotion successes from Lambert onwards. Hughton recognised the problem and tried to address it, only to be replaced by AN who reverted to what has become "the Norwich way". 

I don't buy the "Oh, well, let's get promoted and address the problem in the EPL". The teams that get into the EPL and survive for any length of time are teams which have addressed their structural problems before achieving promotion. Nor am I bemoaning our likely promotion. As Purple pointed out some months ago, even if we end up back in the Championship in two years time, it will be with hugely improved resources. Let's see, though, how many of those whose measure of things is goals scored, games won and points accumulated, are still fully behind Webber and Farke if the trajectory turns downwards rather than up.  

 

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Westcoast, I'm just wondering....you're not Morty re-incarnated are you?

He used to love a debate too.

Edited by sonyc
  • Haha 1

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35 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Westcoast, I'm just wondering....you're not Morty re-incarnated are you?

He used to love a debate too.

You obviously don't remember my frequent spats with Morty sonyc; got quite nasty at times. As far as I'm concerned, personal abuse is the resort of people losing an argument -- so I never have need of it ............... 😋 :classic_biggrin: 😉

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1 hour ago, westcoastcanary said:

 

Is what I'm criticising a natural consequence of the way we play? Yes and no. No, because plenty of teams in many different leagues play as we do, but are better at managing the game when out of possession

The teams that get into the EPL and survive for any length of time are teams which have addressed their structural problems before achieving promotion. 

 

Who are these 'plenty of Teams?' and how do we 'address structural problems ' without a budget?

Edited by splendidrush

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6 hours ago, BigFish said:

In any case @westcoastcanary's stat in bobbins anyway, goals against is a very blunt measure. 11 of those goals were conceded in the first 5 games, whereas we have only conceded 14 in the League since the turn of the year. 

I agree that GA is a very blunt measure, which is why I keep referring people to Ben Mayhew's E-Ratings (Experimental 3-6-1) based on xGa rather than GA. The latest set were up to 10th March. Importantly, given your point about our first five games, Mayhew uses a rolling average from the previous 30 matches, so our first five matches have dropped out of the data in the latest set. Where did we stand defensively on 10th March? 17th out of 24! Where do Leeds and Sheffield Utd stand? 2nd and 1st respectively. 

5 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

See, now those are stats...in perspective.  

So being conveniently selective is the same as putting something in perspective? But anyway, see above.

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32 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said:

I agree that GA is a very blunt measure, which is why I keep referring people to Ben Mayhew's E-Ratings (Experimental 3-6-1) based on xGa rather than GA. The latest set were up to 10th March. Importantly, given your point about our first five games, Mayhew uses a rolling average from the previous 30 matches, so our first five matches have dropped out of the data in the latest set. Where did we stand defensively on 10th March? 17th out of 24! Where do Leeds and Sheffield Utd stand? 2nd and 1st respectively. 

So being conveniently selective is the same as putting something in perspective? But anyway, see above.

Nice try. The league table's not conveniently selective.

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30 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

“99 percent of all statistics only tell 49 percent of the story.”

49% is a lot more of the real story than you get from any other source on here Daz!

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3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Nice try. The league table's not conveniently selective.

Agreed, if the question is who is currently top of the league.

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1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Nice try. The league table's not conveniently selective.

 

1 hour ago, westcoastcanary said:

Agreed, if the question is who is currently top of the league.

... which, ultimately,  is all that matters. 

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Can't believe this is still going on. Yes we concede too many goals. However we are top of the league. Yes, should we make the premier league Farke needs to address the fact that we concede too many goals as we will be buried, but that is next season, regardless of division. As it currently stands if we win our remaining games we will be going to the top division. If we don't make it then so be it but this team has already delivered more than I expected this season.

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