Rob Whites 12 Posted March 9, 2019 20 minutes ago, JayNCFC said: Fair play to both Sheff U and Leeds today, got the job done, it is for sure a 3 horse race now and the best two will go up, to be honest, with Leeds shading Sheff U - I hope they do them over and us two pull away, it's about going up now and I don't really give a hoot who else it is as long as one of them is us... Good post. If Leeds win on Tuesday then unfortunately there will still be a few fans wanting Sheffield to win on Saturday even though a Leeds win would put them 5 points clear of third and potentially make this more likely into a 2 horse race. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted March 9, 2019 Yep fair play to Leeds, that’s a massive 3 points for them. I think everyone expected shef Utd to win anyway. Clearly it’s now a 3 horse race between the 3 best teams in the division. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted March 9, 2019 Yeah, if there was any doubt about that it's been put to rest this weekend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KeiranShikari 1,410 Posted March 9, 2019 There's honestly no point in arguing with Leeds fans. I see it this way, we're really similar at the moment . Finished on the same points last season (along with Ipswich lol), similar points now, similar styles of play and somewhat similar management teams both creating a great atmosphere around each of the clubs. Granted I have seen Leeds a decent number of times and we are absolutely the better footballing side when we have our best footballers on the pitch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) As for the who plays the best football, that’s a hard call to make unless you’ve seen the majority of each teams games. What I will say is that I’ve not seen a Norwich team play football like this before. Some of the goals scored this season are just breathtaking with the passing and movement. If the fans of the other two have been treated to the same levels then good for them. Every team will have off days but the sign of a quality team is to still win when you do. Edited March 9, 2019 by JF Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Whites 12 Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) 38 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said: There's honestly no point in arguing with Leeds fans. I see it this way, we're really similar at the moment . Finished on the same points last season (along with Ipswich lol), similar points now, similar styles of play and somewhat similar management teams both creating a great atmosphere around each of the clubs. Granted I have seen Leeds a decent number of times and we are absolutely the better footballing side when we have our best footballers on the pitch. What makes a better footballing side? Its probably a personal view but I know pundits have applauded Leeds as the best team in the division when they have been on their game. These are the usual pundits that usually seem to slate us and our style in previous years. Leeds break down teams very quickly, they have the best possession overall in the league and to date have only had less than 50% once all season and regularly get well over 65% but it's not just about possession, they also track back very well when they don't have the ball and you normally see 2 or 3 players around one player. They also have the best home record in the division. Leeds have been far from consistent but on their day I can't see how Norwich have looked better at all. Edited March 9, 2019 by Rob Whites Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crabbycanary3 994 Posted March 9, 2019 I have liked to watch both Norwich and Leeds this season, and I would say that, along with Wolves last season, they have played the best 'footballing' style I have ever seen in the Championship. Sheff Utd cannot be ignored, as they are a very good 'team' but for pure entertaining (and in both cases, effective) football, then us and Leeds have it for me. Like you said Rob, it's a personal view. You obviously haven't seen us play very much at all, so your opinion may be watered down a bit, but that is not a problem, you're bound to think you team is a better one than us. We'll just beg to differ! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornish sam 953 Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) I think that one of the main reasons for me rating us above Leeds is because we have many ways to win, Leeds only seem to have one. As Rob rightly points out Leeds have dominated possession on most matches and they run around a helluva lot both with and without the ball, but, this season we have won games playing like that, we have passed teams to death, we have played quick incisive counter atta king football, we have soaked up pressure and then sprung into a top gear, we have ground out result and we have played badly yet still come away with a win. The sheer variety of our football and the way we can just shift the pace and focus of a game like flipping a switch is a joyous thing to behold... Edited March 9, 2019 by cornish sam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Whites 12 Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said: I have liked to watch both Norwich and Leeds this season, and I would say that, along with Wolves last season, they have played the best 'footballing' style I have ever seen in the Championship. Sheff Utd cannot be ignored, as they are a very good 'team' but for pure entertaining (and in both cases, effective) football, then us and Leeds have it for me. Like you said Rob, it's a personal view. You obviously haven't seen us play very much at all, so your opinion may be watered down a bit, but that is not a problem, you're bound to think you team is a better one than us. We'll just beg to differ! Absolutely true. Both teams have their own strengths and weaknesses and we could have a debate on how good our teams are all day. We are both up there for a reason but then on the other hand why isn't Leeds or Norwich so far ahead of everyone else? Edited March 9, 2019 by Rob Whites Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornish sam 953 Posted March 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rob Whites said: Absolutely true. Both teams have their own strengths and weaknesses and we could have a debate on how good our teams are all day. We are both up there for a reason but then on the other hand why isn't Leeds or Norwich so far ahead of everyone else? The obvious answer for us is the first 6 games whilst integrating new signings, if we had our form since then we would be pushing a wolves total... Leeds could probably say injuries, but they seem to have affected your lot more than our similarly bad injury list affected us... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splendidrush 700 Posted March 9, 2019 52 minutes ago, Rob Whites said: Leeds break down teams very quickly, they have the best possession overall in the league and to date have only had less than 50% once all season and regularly get well over 65% but it's not just about possession, they also track back very well when they don't have the ball and you normally see 2 or 3 players around one player. Given those very impressive stats, You have to wonder why you're not top of the League. Could it be that there is a Team out there that is finding ways to win even when they aren't dominating? You also somewhat conveniently missed the obvious, goals win games, I'm not sure that you're top in that chart either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Drinkell 50 Posted March 10, 2019 The 3 best teams are pulling clear of the rest, I hope all 3 go up ...but as we've been to the new Wembley I'm happy to give one of the other teams the opportunity this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GenerationA47 751 Posted March 10, 2019 A gallant sentiment, TGD! Keep the sporting spirit alive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) On 09/03/2019 at 12:10, cornish sam said: The obvious answer for us is the first 6 games whilst integrating new signings, if we had our form since then we would be pushing a wolves total... Leeds could probably say injuries, but they seem to have affected your lot more than our similarly bad injury list affected us... If we had had our post initial 6 game form for the full season to date we'd be at par or ahead of Wolves. At 36 games last year they had 76 points v's our 72 (Finishing on 99, so 23 out of 30 points available over the last 10 games - 7 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss) To be fair nobody expected these three mid-table teams being where they are, unlike Derby, Forest, WBA, Stoke none of us spent any significant money. I'm sure that is very satisfying for all of our supporters and hopefully very soon we can eagerly look forward to embracing next year's challenges. Edited June 4, 2020 by Surfer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornish sam 953 Posted March 11, 2019 Well, apart from Leeds spending c.9m on Bamord and getting 3 loans from Chelsea and one from Man city (not that they've been much use to them) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted March 11, 2019 On 09/03/2019 at 20:17, splendidrush said: Given those very impressive stats, You have to wonder why you're not top of the League. Could it be that there is a Team out there that is finding ways to win even when they aren't dominating? You also somewhat conveniently missed the obvious, goals win games, I'm not sure that you're top in that chart either. Imagine if they had had Bamford fit all season then, instead of missing for the 5 months between early September and early February (bar one match in December, when he made a scoring return as a sub following his ACL injury, only to suffer a further knee injury and be out again until his scoring return against us at Elland Road). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splendidrush 700 Posted March 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said: Imagine if they had had Bamford fit all season then, instead of missing for the 5 months between early September and early February (bar one match in December, when he made a scoring return as a sub following his ACL injury, only to suffer a further knee injury and be out again until his scoring return against us at Elland Road). Imagine he had been fit, would he have played instead of Roofe and all the goals that he scored. Unlikely that he would have improved their early season form. Interesting that you find all sorts of angles to big up Leeds, using all kinds of stats to show how we're somehow inferior and not just on this thread. Ultimately, the only stat that matters is the League table. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted March 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, splendidrush said: Imagine he had been fit, would he have played instead of Roofe and all the goals that he scored. Unlikely that he would have improved their early season form. Interesting that you find all sorts of angles to big up Leeds, using all kinds of stats to show how we're somehow inferior and not just on this thread. Ultimately, the only stat that matters is the League table. I'm not finding "all sorts of angles to big up Leeds", I am giving credit where it's due to a good footballing side who are every bit as good as their position in the table indicates. Where have I said that we are inferior? There's no such thing as "the best football", just different ways of playing the game to good effect. Did Guardiola's Barcelona play "better" football than Cruyff's Ajax? A childish "my toy's better than your toy" spat, made even more silly by tarring the Leeds team with the brush of the lowest common denominator of their fans. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted March 11, 2019 And incidentally, the stats I've kept referring people to in regard to Leeds and Sheffield, aren't "mine", and their ordering of the three teams is not my doing. Do you think I'm Ben Mayhew and responsible for his analyses on Experimental 3-6-1, or somehow control the team statistics on whoscored.com? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splendidrush 700 Posted March 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said: And incidentally, the stats I've kept referring people to in regard to Leeds and Sheffield, aren't "mine", and their ordering of the three teams is not my doing. Do you think I'm Ben Mayhew and responsible for his analyses on Experimental 3-6-1, or somehow control the team statistics on whoscored.com? The stats aren't yours but you find them to back up the argument that they are better. As for giving credit where it's due, when are you going to give our boys some credit? I don't know who Ben Mayhew is but if you use his analysis to make a point, you must take some responsibility. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daly 501 Posted March 11, 2019 I hope the top 3 make it to The Premiership which taken over the 46 games should be the case. Have a horrible feeling that should we not make the top 2 then we will miss out. Its got to be the worst feeling finishing third and having to go through it all again to make TP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splutcho 173 Posted March 11, 2019 I do think there's a fair chance that whoever finishes 3rd ends up missing out via the play offs. Especially if it goes right to the wire. Seems a little unfair, but I still prefer the play off system to having the top three go up automatically. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,331 Posted March 11, 2019 3 hours ago, splutcho said: I do think there's a fair chance that whoever finishes 3rd ends up missing out via the play offs. Especially if it goes right to the wire. Seems a little unfair, but I still prefer the play off system to having the top three go up automatically. If that were the case then the season would already be over for the teams from fourth to fifteenth places. As it stands we are in for one of the most exciting finishes for that third promotion spot ever with more that half the division in with a chance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's Character Forming 1,160 Posted March 11, 2019 Where a team has been in the top 2 for ages, especially when it has been top for plenty of that time (this applies to both us and Leeds) then if it falls away into the playoffs at the end of the season, it often doesn't seem to do well. I'd guess it's a mix of the let down of having to go through the playoffs and the poor form which is the reason for falling down the table at the end of the season. Contrast the times when we've been in the playoffs and have done well, winning promotion last time & getting to the final the time before - both times we were climbing up the table towards the end of the season and getting into the playoffs was felt to be a good result at the time. The playoffs probably are less fair than relying on the league table after 46 games, but you win some, you lose some and I much prefer the playoff system for the 3rd place, it adds fun to the season for fans of lots of teams much closer to the end. I mean everyone is still in with a theoretical chance of getting into the playoffs even with just 10 games to go. Oh no, wait.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splutcho 173 Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said: If that were the case then the season would already be over for the teams from fourth to fifteenth places. As it stands we are in for one of the most exciting finishes for that third promotion spot ever with more that half the division in with a chance Exactly why I said I prefer the play off system! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted March 11, 2019 3 hours ago, splendidrush said: The stats aren't yours but you find them to back up the argument that they are better. As for giving credit where it's due, when are you going to give our boys some credit? I don't know who Ben Mayhew is but if you use his analysis to make a point, you must take some responsibility. "They are better" is not something I have ever said simply because it's nonsensical without saying in what respect they are better. What I have done is pointed out, when true, that both Leeds and Sheffield Utd have been, and are, better than us in certain respects. As regards responsibility, I'm not responsible for the statistics which generate that conclusion, only for drawing them to the attention of posters many of whom clearly don't want to hear. They much prefer to keep predicting, for example, that Leeds are about to implode, when there is ample evidence to the contrary. And as regards giving our players credit, I have been steadfastly behind them since the summer before last, in marked contrast to many of those who now loudly sing their praises. I'm one of the few posters on here who don't need to apologise for putting the boot in, time and again, to everyone from board, to Webber and Farke,and one player after another, only to climb on the Norwich City bandwagon this season as those they vociferously doubted prove them to have been spectacularly wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
westcoastcanary 173 Posted March 11, 2019 5 hours ago, splutcho said: I do think there's a fair chance that whoever finishes 3rd ends up missing out via the play offs. Three years ago Sky Sports did an analysis of the play offs which showed that a team finishing third had roughly double the chance of promotion than a team finishing in one of the other three places. The second most likely to be promoted were teams finishing 5th. There are probably more in depth studies of the play offs than that Sky Sports one, but i haven't seen a recent one. While "double the chance" sounds comforting, the actual percentage, if i remember correctly, was somewhere around 38% or 40% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's Character Forming 1,160 Posted March 11, 2019 I'd be interested to know how well 3rd place teams have done that spent much of the season above 3rd place, compared to the rest, especially teams in the top 2 until relatively late in the season. In general terms you'd expect the 3rd place team to be the strongest playoff contender due to finishing above the others in the league table. It's an interesting hypothesis eg teams that have spent a lot of time in the top 2 places and fall into 3rd place near the end of the season, do they do worse in the playoffs than other 3rd place teams ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy_Bones 441 Posted March 11, 2019 I totally get the excitement that the playoffs bring, but there's something fundamentally wrong with a situation whereby a team could finish 12-15+ points above someone in 4th-6th, yet still not get promotion because of a poor result in a playoff scenario, which completely devalues their overall performance across a 46 match season. Imagine running a marathon and being 5-10 mins ahead of everyone for the entire first 25 miles, yet because someone had a faster time than you in purely the final mile (but are still 10-20 minutes behind you overall), then your lead over the whole event becomes utterly worthless and they get the win even though overall you've still finished before them and in a faster time! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
......and Smith must score. 1,343 Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) On 09/03/2019 at 18:39, Rob Whites said: Good post. If Leeds win on Tuesday then unfortunately there will still be a few fans wanting Sheffield to win on Saturday even though a Leeds win would put them 5 points clear of third and potentially make this more likely into a 2 horse race. Fair point. As you know there a few Leeds lovers on here but we're getting to the self preservation part of the season now. If we are to go up automatically I think most Norwich fans would rather Sheff Utd went up with us but I know I'd rather the top two had breathing space over third so if that happens to be Leeds then so what ? That said there'll be plenty on here rooting for Ipswich if you need something in the last game... Edited March 12, 2019 by ......and Smith must score. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
