When is a penalty not a penalty?

[Aggy 752]

I think an indirect freekick in the box could work in some situations actually.

As keelansgrandad says, some refs wouldn’t give a pen if there’s a foul but the attacker wouldn’t have got to the ball anyway. But that should be a pen under the laws of the game. If that happened on the halfway line (but the fouled player wouldn’t have got the ball before it went out for a throw) it would still be a freekick. Yet if it’s going out for a goal kick, is it right the attacking team get a penalty? An indirect freekick could work there.

Have to say I’m not sure asking a ref to make a judgment call on what is or isn’t a goal scoring opportunity is madness. They already have to do this - a foul 20 yards out of the box. If it’s a goal scoring opportunity, it’s a red card. If it’s not, it’s a yellow. 

Its also surely far more ‘mad’ to ask a ref to establish what a player’s intention is in order to establish whether he has deliberately handled the ball. How can the ref read minds? Is the player clean through on goal or not is a far easier decision (although not always easy) than trying to work out a player’s intentions.

However, I don’t agree that indirect free kicks should be used for handballs on “off target” shots. If it’s handball, it has to be deliberate. If you’ve deliberately tried to use your hand to block a shot in the penalty box, for me it’s irrlevant if it’s off target or not. The only reason you would deliberately use your hand in the box is because you thought the shot was on target. If you know it’s off target, why would you deliberately handle it? So if it’s the case that you’ve deliberately cheated to stop what you think is a goal scoring opportunity, it ought to be a penalty imo. 

[GJP 79]

Penalty for me. And I don't think it's entirely accidental his arm got in the way.  It may only have been a split second but I think he got a good enough look as the shot was about to be struck before he turned away.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Interesting points about handball next season.

Mane has hit one for Liverpool and Burnley's Taylor has turned his back and the ball hit him on the elbow. VAR will be in next season. Will there be a great kerfuffle when these incidents happen with players surrounding the ref. There was hardly any appeal or response from the ref today. Next season, would Mane be all over the ref?

I think that will happen no matter what FIFA/UEFA/PL say. And I'm not sure the officials are strong enough to resist. 

[Indy 3,283]

I wonder how many on here would say that Mane shot today should’ve been a penalty? I didn’t think it was but at least this time the shot was on target and as such prevented a clear goal scoring chance, not that this matters for a penalty award!

Interesting to see next season how VAR interpretations will be made and where it will be deployed to the referee to check.

 

[ricardo 7,345]

Birmingham should certainly have had a penalty against Villa today. Blatant push in the back waved away by the ref who should not have needed VAR to make the correct decision.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

The Lacazette penalty was a joke, Fred just stayed with him, Lacazette hits the deck, nothing in it. 

[westcoastcanary 173]

30 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

The Lacazette penalty was a joke, Fred just stayed with him, Lacazette hits the deck, nothing in it. 

I disagree. Fred didn't "just stay with him", Lacazette got in front of him, shielding the ball, and Fred leaned into his back. It is an offence to "impede an opponent with contact" (Law 12), which is exactly what Fred did..

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

But the point I am making is that next season when VAR will be used in Prem, despite the guidelines on how it is to used, players will assume they can pressure the referee to use it. I can see chaos. I haven't seen many players agree they were offside or they had pushed an opponent or the boring "I got the ball first".

Rugby started off with try no try. Now it is I want to check if the player was offside from the kick or whether there was a knock on three moves back. But at least the players don't have any say in the referee choosing TMO. In football, I fear the worst.