sheded 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Will someone explain to me just how Nigel is supposed to have destroyed Ashton ? , I keep hearing this bandied about , and , frankly , its got to be the biggest load of bull yet ! I don`t want to hear how Nigel has " forced " Deano to play out of position etc , Deano KNOWS what he`s up front for , and the fact remains that he`s bodging his shots on goal !! Explain to me how this is Nigels fault , preferably in logical terms ! BTW I do think he needs more support around him ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plastic Scouser 0 Posted December 12, 2005 "BTW I do think he needs more support around him !"Er.... doesn''t that answer your question? If he needs more support then who should be making sure that he get''s the support? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM> º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True 0 Posted December 12, 2005 But not having the right support, or service, is nothing to do with ''destroying Ashton'' as some people claim. What makes their claims all the more ludicrous is that his value appears to have apparently more than doubled. If true, please let Worthy destroy ALL our players in that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beno27 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Worthington said in an interview that at crewe, Ashton was allowed to stay in the area and finish off the chances made for him. But he''s not allowed to do that here, he has to be a ''team player'' and do the work of two strikers and an attacking midfielder by the looks of things. At this point last season Deano had 20 goals, so why does Worthless think he''s got to change the way Deano plays and sacrifice most of the goals?! Its what Michael Owen does and nobody tries to change him!I hope Deano will go to Man City, get the nurturing he deserves, scores loads of goals and goes to the world cup. He''s good enough. The best Norwich player i''ve ever seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
still holding out for new heroes 0 Posted December 12, 2005 not buying a right winger to supply crosses, and playing route 1 to him all season which is clearly not a strength Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salopian 1 Posted December 12, 2005 Ashton''s misses are a sign of loss of confidence. No-one disputes this. But you don''t lose your confidence suddenly.If you saw the many Ashton goals shown on the Crewe official site whenhe left, he scored all sorts of goals but many of them were fromdefence splitting passes along the ground, ie into gaps, which he couldrun on to. How many of these passes have you seen this season?Frequently the ball reaches him chest high, or higher, and because theyare long and he has his back to goal, clunking defenders are on to himby the time the ball arrives. He has even been reduced to foraging forthe ball out on the wings. At times he has been a lonely figure, withno other player anywhere near to receive knockdowns.Is there anyone who still doubts that our central midfield, with thepartial exception of Safri, seems unable to provide this service on theground. Indeed one or two of the new signings, we all know who I mean,seem incapable of directing a pass in a desired direction, let alone atthe right pace. What Ashton did in the Premiership was remarkable. He acheieved headedgoals from crosses that were not accurate enough, he poached goals outof nothing and he created chances by excellent footwork. But even then,the service he received was poor. Sadly it has not improved with thesignings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rudolph Hucker 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Ashton simply needs the ball played to his feet and a strike partner to work off (not Huckerby who is invariably out on the wing). Playing with his back to goal and receiving balls in the air plainly isn''t his game. It is horses for courses. having said that he has missed a half dozen sitters including some which cost us points and would have lifted the morale of the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky green trainers 0 Posted December 12, 2005 yeah I saw a few clips of crewes deano goals and lots did appear frompasses threaded through for him to run onto to, as were his england u21goals against germany.we don''t do this at city. i remember svenson coming deep and puttingsome through balls along the ground for the striker, but thats aboutit. holt/francis could weight a pass, and neither can those who''vefollowed. Jarrett could weight a pass, but his confidence got so low,he couldn''t ''wait'' to pass in the end Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dionysus 0 Posted December 12, 2005 [quote user="Amarillo"]What makes their claims all the more ludicrous is that his value appears to have apparently more than doubled. If true, please let Worthy destroy ALL our players in that way.[/quote]I see that you''ve used the words "appears" and "apparently" in your post. Do you honsetly believe any club is going to pay that sort of money for him given his current form?As for ruining Ashton, he is experiencing a loss of confidence at the moment. Obviously this stems partly from his current inability to score which, in turn, stems from the lack of service he receives from the flanks and from midfield. By not signing players that can provide decent service, Worthington is partly responsible for this confidence loss.I also question how our players are being trained. From what I''ve heard and seen on the pitch it seems that stamina and "working hard" are given a much bigger priority in training to footballing skills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sheded 0 Posted December 12, 2005 So it looks as though Deanos main problem is lack of support ? a fact that I`ve been on about for a while now ... As has been mentioned , we just don`t have a midfield capable of the ,on the ground ,passing game, which is probably why Nigel opts for route one ! the mention of which seems to give the vapours to some posters ! But route one has a logic to it ! why mess around tapping the ball to each other in midfield , when you can lob the ball right into the opponents penalty area ? hopefully staying on side ] Where its going tits up when we do it , is lack of support ! this is where Nigel has to grasp the nettle , and forget his defensive background ! our strikers shouldn`t have to be on their tod when the ball comes to them ... defenders will just home in on a lone striker , but if they had two or three strikers to contend with ....... they wont like it up-em !! [6] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Aldrich 0 Posted December 12, 2005 When Deano was playing for Crewe he played facing the oppositions goal feeding off decent balls to feet, and decent crosses from the flanks, I think he was the leading scorer in the Championship at one point, playing for a team that are perennial strugglers in this league. This season Deano spends most of his time with his back to the oppositions goal, trying to control balls that are coming into him at chest, head (and higher) height. Deano is class act, if you watch him playing for the England U21 side you cannot fail to see that. We need to provide hime with a decent service and we need to do it fast. When you buy a player presumably you watch that player first and can see what his strengths are, as an earlier post pointed out Deano thrives on running onto decent through balls, I can see that, my dad can see that, my missue can see that and my cat can see that (OK I lied about the cat!!), so why spend £3m plus on a player and not play to his strengths, maybe Worthy will only be satisfied once he can say that "Dean Ashton has got a good engine......" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mook 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Sheded.I believe you just answered your own question. Re-read your post.That''s how Nigel is destroying Deano. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Boy 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Your second post does indeed answer your own question, Sheded. But it''s still not necessarily NW''s fault. For example, we played very well in the first 15 minutes against Crewe, with a 3-man attack, and plenty of support for Ashton. Then we went a goal down, and for the next 20 minutes we lapsed back into a 5-man midfield and therefore left Ashton isolated. And that was because the players lost their bottle, not because of Worthy''s tactics, which were obviously to continue 4-3-3. Then towards the end of the first half, we recovered our confidence and, with McVeigh coming on, we started to threaten Crewe again. And IMO, we have too many players who look for the easy way out when they''re under pressure, and the easy way out is often to hit the ball long. I don''t think it''s the manager''s tactics that are at fault, but the players'' failure to implement them. I realise that that''s an unpopular opinion at the moment, but tough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saint Canary 0 Posted December 13, 2005 Old Boy, I am in agreement with what you say. I will criticise Worthy as much as the next poster but a lot of the long hoofs appear to be because players just see it as the easy option. I''m not convinced that this is the tactics as set out by Worthy. I would imagine the players are told to use the long ball when there is an opportunity of a quick break.Saying that though, if Worthy put out an 11 (when possible) consisting of our best footballers there is no doubt we could play an attractive passing game.As for Ashton, he is clearly not getting the service he needs. He is not a target man despite his height and his team mates and manager should be well aware of this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FilletTheFishWife . 0 Posted December 13, 2005 NW has not destroyed Deano.he''s been playing as poorly as those around him and the good chances he has missed have been as costly as our defensive lapses.its become apparent that he was merely using Norwich as a stepping-stone and whether its a true loss of form or apathy on his part he has yet to discover the form which has inflated his price tag.I don''t begrudge him his ambition but if he''d been as sharp as he could be with his finishing he might have been back in the premiership (with norwich). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sheded 0 Posted December 13, 2005 [quote user="Old Boy"]Your second post does indeed answer your own question, Sheded. But it''s still not necessarily NW''s fault. For example, we played very well in the first 15 minutes against Crewe, with a 3-man attack, and plenty of support for Ashton. Then we went a goal down, and for the next 20 minutes we lapsed back into a 5-man midfield and therefore left Ashton isolated. And that was because the players lost their bottle, not because of Worthy''s tactics, which were obviously to continue 4-3-3. Then towards the end of the first half, we recovered our confidence and, with McVeigh coming on, we started to threaten Crewe again. And IMO, we have too many players who look for the easy way out when they''re under pressure, and the easy way out is often to hit the ball long. I don''t think it''s the manager''s tactics that are at fault, but the players'' failure to implement them. I realise that that''s an unpopular opinion at the moment, but tough.[/quote]Your the third one to point out that I answered my own question Old boy ! I`m beginning to get it now ! LOL ...Yep ! there`s some truth in what you say , there`s probably some evidence of " bottling " when that goal went in , you could sense the fear in the players that , s**t , here we go again !! [:@] hard to blame them somehow , but they regrouped well , and McVeigh certainly made their defence work ! Hucks coming on made the difference though , their defence were obviously not expecting him to come on , and he ran them ragged ! Lets see if we can apply some guile at Soton Nigel , think we`re going to need it !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saint Canary 0 Posted December 13, 2005 Just a quick point, underneath is a qoute from Deano on Sky Sports regarding him not scoring of late. "I''ve had droughts before, If I was missing clear-cut chances every week I''d worry, but there aren''t many chances coming my way, so I''ll just wait until they do and keep trying to do my job for the team." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0 Posted December 13, 2005 WHAT is all this about GOOD CHANCES MISSED?? earlier in the season when we played fairly well but couldnt get a result- maybe but recently?????I dont remember him having any good chances against Millwall?? Maybe one against Crewe and None against Coventry and Derby???????????We don''t play to his strengths - worthy treats him as a target man because he is tall - thats it?? At crewe he was played as a proper striker none of this Worthy Long ball crap....I tell ya all you Deano doubters - lets see how well he does at his new club come January - then we can see exactly what your football knowlege is like.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites