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A Load of Squit

“That was the boss… Google her”

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Sorry not read the whole thread but is this the right place to comment on Asians driving ability?*

 

*Im joking, in case it needs clarification.

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7 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

If ever there was a holier than thou post....

Yeah, but what do you think about the De Telegraaf article Nutty?

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14 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

If ever there was a holier than thou post....

Oh dear, now you've brought religion into it Nutty.😀

This thread may soon challenge the EU one for longevity.

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I have been out all day, and come back to this. 

All I was going to say was 'Good God' but I can just see where that would lead, so I'll stick with 'Good grief'.

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5 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

I have been out all day, and come back to this. 

All I was going to say was 'Good God' but I can just see where that would lead, so I'll stick with 'Good grief'.

That's offensive to recently bereaved people.

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5 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

That's offensive to recently bereaved people.

and what about people who have been bereaved for a while? There is no time limit on these things

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1 hour ago, Daz Sparks said:

Yeah, but what do you think about the De Telegraaf article Nutty?

There's nothing much in it that we didn't already know buddy. It's obvious Krul's happy here and is an integral part of our success. I've posted my admiration of him often and there's nothing here to change that. We already know how Delia has always been with players and staff and I have seen her hug and thank players many times. 

In the full article we hear about Leeds supporters throwing coins. There's nothing new there either.

However it's good to see these things well received because if it was reported  Delia hugged a player before mid-September there would have been a vastly different reaction on here.

What do you think about the stick Pops has been getting Daz?

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Off to London tomorrow to visit my son who is in the Coldstream Guards. We will see the Ceremony of the Keys again but for the last time as he has been promoted and will not be doing ceremonials anymore.

It reminds me of similarities to the kerfuffle I inadvertently caused earlier on this topic. The ceremony is very old. Something of a bygone era that still attracts many. particularly visitors from other nations. People excited and privileged to see something that still even now is an example of imperialism and Monarchy. Things in the armed forces are still done in the Monarch's name.

Those were days when we just took what we wanted. We had the force, the tradition and the will to invade countries for their wealth, minerals and even slavery at one time. And we definitely treated some nations badly.And of course some people made this a successful venture and their success is probably still reflected by their offspring.

But of course, we in this country, do not do that to other people anymore. We have moved to a better place. These nations are now our partners, we trade with them. We respect them. And we respect their citizens.

But just in the same way as my wife and I will be proud watching our son commanding his men in an age old ceremony that has stood the test of time and is still in use today, many other aspects of bygone years are still in use. But that doesn't mean they have real meaning but are just a part of everyday usage.

I was still using the term "me old sunshine" until I was told it was deemed offensive. I must admit I don't recall ever using the word scum about that lot in Suffolk. It isn't really a nice word to use about some people you don't even know. Some might be grumpy old grandpas like some of us on here. But I accept it is a word that is used as a term to identify the old enemy. No complaints.

When I was a Trade Union Secretary, I asked people not to use the word scab. It isn't applicable and doesn't cover the reason why some people act the way they do.

So if I have offended some people with the word I used today, in jest, then I am sorry. But I do say to some of you younger people who chastised me, the world we live in today is a much fairer, respectful and appreciative place than it ever was.

And that has come about on our watch, not yours. So please be a little mindful of the achievements of previous generations to yours in bringing about the more understanding Britain we live in.

 

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6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

So haven't most Chinese people grown up being the majority in their society and not experienced discrimination? They aren't a disadvantaged minority 

I lived in China and was often called a gweilo, an offensive term for a Westerner. It is very possible for Western people to have racist, stereotype comments made about them. You probably don't know it's happening if you don't speak the language

In Thailand you will find double pricing where Westerners pay higher prices than other races. They often display double pricing with the lower pricing in the local language. This is just as much racist discrimination as happens in the West. It works both ways. 

Missing the point I feel but maybe I could have explained it better. Yes, white people may be discriminated against in other countries where they are a minority, but I would argue they are still in a position of privilege. For cultural, historical and economic reasons they normally have far more power than the average citizen in the street of the foreign country. Contrast your position in Thailand with that of Thai person here.

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2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Missing the point I feel but maybe I could have explained it better. Yes, white people may be discriminated against in other countries where they are a minority, but I would argue they are still in a position of privilege. For cultural, historical and economic reasons they normally have far more power than the average citizen in the street of the foreign country. Contrast your position in Thailand with that of Thai person here.

Yep, I don't disagree with you, Nuff. But I would say that I'm privileged in the UK because UK society has historically been built by people culturally similar to me and for the benefit of people similar to me because, well, we're British. And that's true for every country around the world. Japanese society has been built and shaped by Japanese people for the benefit of Japanese people. And the same thing, unsurprisingly has happened in China and so a Chinese person is in a position of privilege in the same way as I am in a position of privilege in the West. I don't have to feel guilty about my Western privilege, i'd be surprised if I wasn't privileged in my own culture.

Yet all cultures and societies are not equal. Some are more successful than others for varying reasons. Early Islamic culture was very successful and gave the world the whole field of mathematics, for example. And then in the 13th Century, the study of sciences was decreed anti-Islamic and that society became less successful as a result. While the West went through the Age of Enlightenment and Reason, which led to our culturally rich Western society that we have today. We shouldn't have to apologise to other societies for our being successful, but that seems to be what many other societies seem to be demanding of us these days. If we have a privilege within our own society it's because 1) we made the society this way to suit our needs 2) we earned it.

And yeah, the Chinese and Japanese both think their societies are superior to the West, as do Islamic militants.

Edited by Rock The Boat

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7 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

There's nothing much in it that we didn't already know buddy. It's obvious Krul's happy here and is an integral part of our success. I've posted my admiration of him often and there's nothing here to change that. We already know how Delia has always been with players and staff and I have seen her hug and thank players many times. 

In the full article we hear about Leeds supporters throwing coins. There's nothing new there either.

However it's good to see these things well received because if it was reported  Delia hugged a player before mid-September there would have been a vastly different reaction on here.

What do you think about the stick Pops has been getting Daz?

You've got to love Tim eh? He seems to truly "get" NCFC and the supporters, had he not been injured the way he was we would probably never have seen him in a City shirt.

As for what happened with KG, I feel it was unjustified, I have always enjoyed reading his postings and maybe not always agree with him, KG is almost always interesting.  I hold a mental picture of a true City fan, a decent family man and fair and just human being. His original post was more of a poke at those that want a super rich asian investor and I never never for one moment detected any malice in it or intent to offend.

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8 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Off to London tomorrow to visit my son who is in the Coldstream Guards. We will see the Ceremony of the Keys again but for the last time as he has been promoted and will not be doing ceremonials anymore.

It reminds me of similarities to the kerfuffle I inadvertently caused earlier on this topic. The ceremony is very old. Something of a bygone era that still attracts many. particularly visitors from other nations. People excited and privileged to see something that still even now is an example of imperialism and Monarchy. Things in the armed forces are still done in the Monarch's name.

Those were days when we just took what we wanted. We had the force, the tradition and the will to invade countries for their wealth, minerals and even slavery at one time. And we definitely treated some nations badly.And of course some people made this a successful venture and their success is probably still reflected by their offspring.

But of course, we in this country, do not do that to other people anymore. We have moved to a better place. These nations are now our partners, we trade with them. We respect them. And we respect their citizens.

But just in the same way as my wife and I will be proud watching our son commanding his men in an age old ceremony that has stood the test of time and is still in use today, many other aspects of bygone years are still in use. But that doesn't mean they have real meaning but are just a part of everyday usage.

I was still using the term "me old sunshine" until I was told it was deemed offensive. I must admit I don't recall ever using the word scum about that lot in Suffolk. It isn't really a nice word to use about some people you don't even know. Some might be grumpy old grandpas like some of us on here. But I accept it is a word that is used as a term to identify the old enemy. No complaints.

When I was a Trade Union Secretary, I asked people not to use the word scab. It isn't applicable and doesn't cover the reason why some people act the way they do.

So if I have offended some people with the word I used today, in jest, then I am sorry. But I do say to some of you younger people who chastised me, the world we live in today is a much fairer, respectful and appreciative place than it ever was.

And that has come about on our watch, not yours. So please be a little mindful of the achievements of previous generations to yours in bringing about the more understanding Britain we live in.

 

Sorry for making such a big deal out of it. Enjoy your day in London 🙂

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My take on this, was that there was no racial slur intended by Keelan, BGY had a little bit of a dig and everyone joined in( including me now!) I was unaware, but now am better informed. I read both the readers posts and I would think they are from a different era, but that is good for this forum. What should have happened is that BGY should have pulled him up in an informative manner, given us a history lesson as we all looked on, and then we got back to the topic. My opinion of both of them has not changed. 

I like Krul more each week, and hope that continues after the game on Sunday  

 

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"Err, what’s wrong with “ me old sunshine “ ? "

I have a friend who is a sun worshipper and he is offended by the term "me old sunshine" because the sunworship sect believe the sun is still young and to suggest otherwise is sacrilige. 

It's getting to the point where practically anything anyone ever says can be taken to be offensive by someone somewhere - it's ludicrous.  Comedy has been reduced to bland observational stuff - still funny up to a point, but lacking an edge most of the time.

Imagine what it must be like in countries where people are afraid to speak about anything because the nature of their religion or the nature of the politics of their country controls what can be said - that is where we are heading - political correctness is a control mechanism.  Control means power and while most of us hate feeling we are being controlled in some way, most of us quite like it when we have an element of control in our lives.....it's a double edged sword and we ought to be careful political correctness does not stifle society.  

Nothing I have seen on this thread has been very offensive, but it has been informative - I just think that some people latch on to other people's sense of being offended and start being offended on their behalf - and that is just bandwagonism.

My first sentence was a joke btw..........

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6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 

Nothing I have seen on this thread has been very offensive, but it has been informative - I just think that some people latch on to other people's sense of being offended and start being offended on their behalf - and that is just bandwagonism.

 

Quite frankly I'm sick of people attaching negative and offensive connotations to bandwagons!!

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57 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

"Err, what’s wrong with “ me old sunshine “ ? "

I have a friend who is a sun worshipper and he is offended by the term "me old sunshine" because the sunworship sect believe the sun is still young and to suggest otherwise is sacrilige. 

It's getting to the point where practically anything anyone ever says can be taken to be offensive by someone somewhere - it's ludicrous.  Comedy has been reduced to bland observational stuff - still funny up to a point, but lacking an edge most of the time.

Imagine what it must be like in countries where people are afraid to speak about anything because the nature of their religion or the nature of the politics of their country controls what can be said - that is where we are heading - political correctness is a control mechanism.  Control means power and while most of us hate feeling we are being controlled in some way, most of us quite like it when we have an element of control in our lives.....it's a double edged sword and we ought to be careful political correctness does not stifle society.  

Nothing I have seen on this thread has been very offensive, but it has been informative - I just think that some people latch on to other people's sense of being offended and start being offended on their behalf - and that is just bandwagonism.

My first sentence was a joke btw..........

Speech has never been more free than it is now.

Literally everyone has a platform and can say whatever they like. They will of course face the consequences for what they say, but no one is entitled to be free from that.

Part of the reason people feel more ‘stifled’ is due to their speech going further than it did before. The difference of the reach of someone’s words is vast, and thus the resulting response will be equally large.

I think it is important that people can empathise with others who may be in different cultural or ethnic groups. It isn’t about taking offence on someone else’s behalf but it is about calling out offensive behaviour. If I saw someone being offensive to a woman on a train I wouldn’t ignore it as I’m not a woman and thus they aren’t being offensive to me directly. 

Being called out by someone in your own group is much more effective also. Individuals are much more likely to pay attention to those they feel familiar with. I’m please people like Hoola Han and King Canary feel they are able to call people out on offensive behaviour and language. If it was just me, as someone of East Asian descent then I would feel isolated. 

Too long people have stood by and allowed others to be racist, offensive or bigoted and just said ‘ah well, nothing to do with me’. 

You yourself have said that use of the ‘n-word’ is unacceptable, but you aren’t black so if you are offended when you hear it does that mean you are jumping on a bandwagon? If I used homophobia language to abuse someone would you say ‘I’m not gay so I’m not offended by that’? 

 

Edited by Bethnal Yellow and Green
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I have to say, the human race of today as a whole always appears to me that it revels in every chance it can possibly get to be offended at something. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, FenwayFrank said:

Err, what’s wrong with “ me old sunshine “ ?

There can be no redemption for thought crimes😀

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"Err, what’s wrong with “ me old sunshine “ ?"

Does it discriminate against moonlight and moonlighters? 🤔

Apples

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14 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

This the most popular post that I've started.

Who knew Tim Kruls comments would get this much reaction.

L.O.S.

This is an example of how identity politics ends up eating itself.😉

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14 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

This the most popular post that I've started.

Who knew Tim Kruls comments would get this much reaction.

L.O.S.

This is an example of how identity politics ends up eating itself.😉

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1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Speech has never been more free than it is now.

Literally everyone has a platform and can say whatever they like. They will of course face the consequences for what they say, but no one is entitled to be free from that.

Part of the reason people feel more ‘stifled’ is due to their speech going further than it did before. The difference of the reach of someone’s words is vast, and thus the resulting response will be equally large.

I think it is important that people can empathise with others who may be in different cultural or ethnic groups. It isn’t about taking offence on someone else’s behalf but it is about calling out offensive behaviour. If I saw someone being offensive to a woman on a train I wouldn’t ignore it as I’m not a woman and thus they aren’t being offensive to me directly. 

Being called out by someone in your own group is much more effective also. Individuals are much more likely to pay attention to those they feel familiar with. I’m please people like Hoola Han and King Canary feel they are able to call people out on offensive behaviour and language. If it was just me, as someone of East Asian descent then I would feel isolated. 

Too long people have stood by and allowed others to be racist, offensive or bigoted and just said ‘ah well, nothing to do with me’. 

You yourself have said that use of the ‘n-word’ is unacceptable, but you aren’t black so if you are offended when you hear it does that mean you are jumping on a bandwagon? If I used homophobia language to abuse someone would you say ‘I’m not gay so I’m not offended by that’? 

 

I can agree with a lot of that.  It's simply that when over reaction happens - which is quite often - it devalues the point being made. You yourself pulled back from what you originally complained about to KG.  Over reaction happens - and although you and KG made peace which is great - there are others who jump on to the bandwagon and start getting heavy when it really isn't necessary.

Calling out what people perceive as racism or sexism or whatever is fine, but some people delight in jumping on whatever bandwagon is going, regardless of the facts or nances of the situation - and that is when empathy goes out of the window. People want to empathise with each other - that is very difficult when reaction is too strong. 

I think a lot of people will be surprised that "chinaman" is seen as offensive, but we all learn - and that is why I posted the stuff about the chinese slavery in the USA.  But one poster just jumped on to KG, without bothering to explain why it was racist.  If people have a problem with what is written by those of us who might not be completely up to speed with every single thing that is considered wrong these days, then why don't they just explain it, rather than get heavy about it? 

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2 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Speech has never been more free than it is now.

Literally everyone has a platform and can say whatever they like. They will of course face the consequences for what they say, but no one is entitled to be free from that.

Part of the reason people feel more ‘stifled’ is due to their speech going further than it did before. The difference of the reach of someone’s words is vast, and thus the resulting response will be equally large.

I think it is important that people can empathise with others who may be in different cultural or ethnic groups. It isn’t about taking offence on someone else’s behalf but it is about calling out offensive behaviour. If I saw someone being offensive to a woman on a train I wouldn’t ignore it as I’m not a woman and thus they aren’t being offensive to me directly. 

Being called out by someone in your own group is much more effective also. Individuals are much more likely to pay attention to those they feel familiar with. I’m please people like Hoola Han and King Canary feel they are able to call people out on offensive behaviour and language. If it was just me, as someone of East Asian descent then I would feel isolated. 

Too long people have stood by and allowed others to be racist, offensive or bigoted and just said ‘ah well, nothing to do with me’. 

You yourself have said that use of the ‘n-word’ is unacceptable, but you aren’t black so if you are offended when you hear it does that mean you are jumping on a bandwagon? If I used homophobia language to abuse someone would you say ‘I’m not gay so I’m not offended by that’? 

 

That's fair enough Beth. And I agree to a certain extent. However in a community such as this where we do have an understanding of each other I can't agree with the stick Pops got. Even now, after all this discussion, I don't find what he said as offensive at all. I am offended far more about the hate filled rants against good people which occur as soon as we lose a couple of games that remain on this forum pretty much unchallenged. For me there's no place on here for hatred of any sort however it's quite clear there's none on this thread, which I see as a great advert for our community. Proper respectful discussion.

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2 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Speech has never been more free than it is now.

Literally everyone has a platform and can say whatever they like. They will of course face the consequences for what they say, but no one is entitled to be free from that.

Part of the reason people feel more ‘stifled’ is due to their speech going further than it did before. The difference of the reach of someone’s words is vast, and thus the resulting response will be equally large.

I think it is important that people can empathise with others who may be in different cultural or ethnic groups. It isn’t about taking offence on someone else’s behalf but it is about calling out offensive behaviour. If I saw someone being offensive to a woman on a train I wouldn’t ignore it as I’m not a woman and thus they aren’t being offensive to me directly. 

Being called out by someone in your own group is much more effective also. Individuals are much more likely to pay attention to those they feel familiar with. I’m please people like Hoola Han and King Canary feel they are able to call people out on offensive behaviour and language. If it was just me, as someone of East Asian descent then I would feel isolated. 

Too long people have stood by and allowed others to be racist, offensive or bigoted and just said ‘ah well, nothing to do with me’. 

You yourself have said that use of the ‘n-word’ is unacceptable, but you aren’t black so if you are offended when you hear it does that mean you are jumping on a bandwagon? If I used homophobia language to abuse someone would you say ‘I’m not gay so I’m not offended by that’? 

 

Agree with most of that Bethnal, but as far as I am concerned, those who take offense at certain terms but then immediately discriminate against "old white guys" on the basis they are not a minority are two sides of the same coin.

In my opinion we should treat people with respect regardless of ethnic or religious background and ensure we understand the context of what people say. Nobody is perfect and may occasionally say things we find personally offensive out of ignorance rather than as a deliberately racist/discriminatory act. Too many people are far too quick to jump on the bandwagon and damn people, regardless of context or intent.

Then you also have the "white knight" brigade (sorry if that term offends anybody), who seem willing to take offense on behalf of anybody else, whilst disparaging majority groups. Sure, this might be wrapped up in some psuedo-intellectual BS with regards to the white majority, privilege, toxic masculinity or whatever the flavour of the month is, but it seems to me this is just an excuse to be as bigoted as those they supposedly despise, whilst wrapping it all up in with some sort of moral superiority-shaped bow.

My belief is that this is an extremely slippery slope, and I'm certain that, historically, any groups who have persecuted others have always found some sort of misguided moral justification for what they do.

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2 hours ago, Mr Apples said:

"Err, what’s wrong with “ me old sunshine “ ?"

Does it discriminate against moonlight and moonlighters? 🤔

Apples

Err.... Mr Apples, I was going to say you are a star for mentioning this, but then thought I'd better not as it might offend the star-struck star gazers. There are many more intergalactic terms that could be used - like any of the planets - one in particular stands out!!

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1 hour ago, Ian said:

Agree with most of that Bethnal, but as far as I am concerned, those who take offense at certain terms but then immediately discriminate against "old white guys" on the basis they are not a minority are two sides of the same coin.

In my opinion we should treat people with respect regardless of ethnic or religious background and ensure we understand the context of what people say. Nobody is perfect and may occasionally say things we find personally offensive out of ignorance rather than as a deliberately racist/discriminatory act. Too many people are far too quick to jump on the bandwagon and damn people, regardless of context or intent.

Then you also have the "white knight" brigade (sorry if that term offends anybody), who seem willing to take offense on behalf of anybody else, whilst disparaging majority groups. Sure, this might be wrapped up in some psuedo-intellectual BS with regards to the white majority, privilege, toxic masculinity or whatever the flavour of the month is, but it seems to me this is just an excuse to be as bigoted as those they supposedly despise, whilst wrapping it all up in with some sort of moral superiority-shaped bow.

My belief is that this is an extremely slippery slope, and I'm certain that, historically, any groups who have persecuted others have always found some sort of misguided moral justification for what they do.

Ahh I was trying to stay out of this thread but...

Nobody is discriminating against old white guys are they?  They do pretty well for themselves in general. The world is pretty much run by old white guys. To say men or white people in general have a certain privileged and advantage within Western societies isn't bigoted. The fact you dismiss ideas like privilege as 'psuedo-intellectual BS' just adds to the sense that you don't get it. Then we have folks such as NN above saying 'I wasn't offended' as if it is remotely relevant whether white people are offended by terms for people of other races, which is the cherry on the 'not getting it' cake.

I don't think anyone on this thread is actually a racist (we've had our fair share on this forum at times though) but I think some people are so unwilling to consider that it actually isn't all about you. Sometimes it helps to listen to folks like Bethnal who have faced actual and real discrimination on the basis of their skin colour, rather the immediately shout 'PC police' at the top of your voice.

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Sorry for making such a big deal out of it. Enjoy your day in London 🙂

 

Thanks for that. i apologise for the get stuffed comment. Just angry at the time. But looking forward to the rest of our trip up here and looking forward to getting home Sunday in time for the match.

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