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pete

Such a shame

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That if at the end of this fantastic season that if we fail to make it to the PL.  This team will be broken up to pay for the previous failure of the Board to manage finances under previous managers.  If we could keep the squad intact next season we could anticipate greater success.  I would hope after last season reaping a reported £36m windfall from Maddison and Murphy we should have enough to avoid sales in the summer.

But lets not concern ourselves with what ifs and get the job done this season.  Need to get the defence sorted and it will be straight forward.  unfortunately we have become so leaky since Godfrey has been introduced into the defence, although the goals that have been conceded have been attributable to Godfrey we do need experience in that position.  Hope Klose returns soon to turn draws into wins.  

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Yes Klose is important but I think we’ve missed Tettey a lot more.

It’s been said countless times but he’s so important to how we play, being in the right place, covering the defence (though with more freedom this season to get forward).

He seemed in decline and with his knees seemingly being a problem looked like it was a matter of time before he left. But Farke has worked a miracle with him, getting him able to play game after game and making him integral to our way of playing and our success.

Also more than Klose, Leitner has been a massive miss. I love Vrancic and he’s been great for us but he simply isn’t Mo. The link to everything we do, from receiving the ball from Krul to playing a killer pass to creating goal scoring opportunities, Leitner seems to be everywhere and unfortunately we don’t have anyone else like him.

Get our spine fit.....Klose/Tettey/Leitner/Stiepermann/Pukki.....and keep them fit, and we’ll be top 2

 

OTBC

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Agree with that Zac,when you consider that we're without Klose, Tettey and Leitner, basically the spine if you include Steiperman who's only just returned. We've been great, playing some fabulous football for everyone to enjoy. Let's not rake over the mistakes of the past in preparation if things don't go our way at the end of the season. 

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I include Stiepermann in the spine as I think the importance of his physicality and awkward skill is underestimated. It certainly was by Sheff Utd for the first 15mins or so when they gave him too much space and time and he looked unstoppable early on. Credit to Wilder (ugh I hate typing that), he spoke to Sharp during a brief stoppage and it seemed clear after that the tactical change was to keep Stiepermann quiet and he was marked a lot closer from then on. He persevered and got some joy and was obviously still an outlet in the air from goal kicks but it was no surprise he came off, though slightly later than expected considering he also looked knackered!

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Little doubt that Klose needs to come back into the side when fit. Godfrey has done a job there but taking the romance out of the fact that he is a youngster who has progressed since coming to the club his defensive awareness it not up to the mark yet which i feel has left Lewis a little exposed a few times and limited his forward forays deep into the opponents half.

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9 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Little doubt that Klose needs to come back into the side when fit. Godfrey has done a job there but taking the romance out of the fact that he is a youngster who has progressed since coming to the club his defensive awareness it not up to the mark yet which i feel has left Lewis a little exposed a few times and limited his forward forays deep into the opponents half.

Totally agree here. Godfrey is going to be excellent for us in a season or two, whether that is in the championship or Prem. We need Klose back ASAP, and Emi B to get more game time to sharpen up his sublime skill back to where it was pre injury.

I'm sure McClean will have a part to play as this season pans out as well.

 

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Cannot agree with anything the OP has said. One loss in 17 does not signify a dodgy defence. For a start, the Blades first goal was down to a midfield/forward player.

And the criticism of Godfrey is unwarranted. Of course Tim is a better centre back. That shouldn't detract from Godfrey's performances and the fact that he is keeping Hanley out of the starting line up.

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20 minutes ago, BaltimoreBird said:

What are the chances we see Hanley at Leeds?

None

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15 hours ago, East Rider said:

Totally agree here. Godfrey is going to be excellent for us in a season or two, whether that is in the championship or Prem. We need Klose back ASAP .......

So how exactly is Godfrey going to develop into this excellent player a season or two down the line, other than by being played right now?

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6 hours ago, westcoastcanary said:

So how exactly is Godfrey going to develop into this excellent player a season or two down the line, other than by being played right now?

Not sure if this is a serious question however :- Good coaching. Being played with an experienced centre back. Playing U23s. Playing non essential games. Playing when we are comfortable in a game. Playing cup games. Substitute appearances. Loaned out etc etc etc

He has literally just turn 21 this month and will be a excellent player for us in a season or two of that there is no doubt. Nor does DF it appears. If we were mid table or way off the pace then I suspect this conversation would not come up. He actually had a good game Saturday, but I believe we need Klose back available.

However, if all our centre backs were fit, it is unlikely he would have played so much. 

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6 hours ago, East Rider said:

If we were mid table or way off the pace then I suspect this conversation would not come up. He actually had a good game Saturday, but I believe we need Klose back available.

So the reason you want Klose back is that you think promotion this season is the absolute priority, irrespective of how well equipped we are for it? Have people not learned anything from our experience over the last seven years?

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33 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said:

So the reason you want Klose back is that you think promotion this season is the absolute priority, irrespective of how well equipped we are for it? Have people not learned anything from our experience over the last seven years?

Promotion should be the absolute priority - especially if you are sitting in the automatic promotion places with less than 20 games to go.

Teams can’t choose when they get promoted or not and this season is a great opportunity with the 3 relegated clubs not being as strong as in previous seasons. 

When Klose is fit he should of course come back into the team as he has been one of Norwich’s best players this season. 

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1 hour ago, westcoastcanary said:

So the reason you want Klose back is that you think promotion this season is the absolute priority, irrespective of how well equipped we are for it? Have people not learned anything from our experience over the last seven years?

Is that intended to be a serious post or are you fishing?

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1 hour ago, westcoastcanary said:

So the reason you want Klose back is that you think promotion this season is the absolute priority, irrespective of how well equipped we are for it? Have people not learned anything from our experience over the last seven years?

I doubt we are that 'ill equipped' that we cannot cope with £100m plus TV money, as i'm sure we would manage it somehow

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2 hours ago, westcoastcanary said:

So the reason you want Klose back is that you think promotion this season is the absolute priority, irrespective of how well equipped we are for it? Have people not learned anything from our experience over the last seven years?

Yes they have. That is precisely the point. The club and many fans have realised that an incremental approach, such as that taken by Burnley, is the best way.

The new philosophy seems very much to be that if we get promoted then, unlike previous seasons when we have overstrained financially to try to stay up, we will live within our means. If that means immediate relegation back, then so be it. We will still be in a better position the season after to try to get back up again. Incrementalism.

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If we go up - change nothing about our approach. It'll give us a financial safety net that we would otherwise be missing and we can continue to invest in young talent. We don't need to spend massive amounts of money off the pitch as our facilities at Carrow Rd are already up to PL standard, Colney could see some more money spend, and yes player wages and management salaries will go up, but I think the most important thing is we commit to this brand of football and differentiate that way to attract players in the future.

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I’m In complete agreement with the above posts. Promotion is the priority and if we do go up I’d stick with the players that have got us there, with a few additions, the kind we have been signing, and take the money and run! If we stay up then that’s fantastic, if we’re relegated then the club is financially set for years. I’d like nothing more than this group of players to be given a shot at the PL rather than tossed aside the moment we get there.

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4 hours ago, westcoastcanary said:

So the reason you want Klose back is that you think promotion this season is the absolute priority, irrespective of how well equipped we are for it? Have people not learned anything from our experience over the last seven years?

Promotion is the absolute priority? 100% yes at this point in our campaign. We are on a roll, the team spirit is superb, we are getting the rub of the green and right now we have an excellent team.

Irrespective of how well equipped we are? We have strength in depth, a manager who can adapt as the games come in, and during games. We have a young expansive ball playing squad, one of our best I have seen in terms of team balance and individuals. There is no reason to suppose if we were fortunate to be promoted that we would not do well, relatively speaking of course.

Lessons learnt from the last seven years? Take every opportunity that comes. It is folly to suggest we would be better off staying in this division to gain experience or remain until the 'time is right', just ask that shower down the road how that looks. There are definitely lessons to be learnt agreed, but not availing ourselves to mid term financial stability is certainly not one of them.

 

My point I made earlier was not really about promotion though. It was being more secure in the upcoming games with our best and most experience central defender available.

Promotion?  Well that would be a nice outcome certainly

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3 hours ago, Van wink said:

Is that intended to be a serious post or are you fishing?

Entirely serious VW. The key words were "absolute priority", i.e are all other considerations to be overridden by it, the particular case under discussion being whether Godfrey should be benched the minute Klose is ready to start. That is a quite different question from whether Vrancic should be benched the minute Leitner is ready to start, or whether Trybull should be benched the minute Tettey is ready to start. 

I'm interested to hear from Purple that "many fans" have realised that an incremental approach is the way forward. These are the same fans who couldn't see any incremental anything going on throughout last season and were seriously debating whether DF should be sacked after 5 games this season, right? The good sense in an incremental approach has been there for all to see for many years, in the shape of clubs like Swansea and WBA. How many of these "many fans" bought into the message when we were struggling in the EPL?

And while we are on the subject of incremental improvement, that's exactly the point about persevering with Godfrey at CB even if Klose is fit. Would Klose have prevented Gayle's goal in the West Brom game? Who's to say; but Godfrey will certainly have learned a lot from it and be better for the experience. Of course, with promotion the absolute priority, that game ended with two points dropped irrespective of a hard fought point and valuable experience being gained.

I've no quarrel with anything in Surfer's post, but it isn't relevant to the question in hand, i.e. whether achieving promotion is or should be the overriding priority right now.

Edited by westcoastcanary
Typo

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The other side of this is, what if we don't get promoted? Chances are that several of the players we've enjoyed this season will be off. If silly offers come in for Aarons, Lewis, Buendia, Leitner and Godfrey, yes we'll have plenty of money, but little chance of promotion next year while another re build  happens. 

The Club has to take its chance now, give them a free hit next season and if we're relegated we'll have made a lot of money, the best players will be picked off anyway for a good profit and we start again financially secure. 

If we survive, well that's for the future...

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Be careful when predicting the future. 

Six months ago the predictions were we'd have nobody to score any goals. We'd sold all the players worth having except Lewis who would go before the window shut. This was the future with a cook and a nephew pulling the strings. Farke was clueless and his football worse still. Webber was a chancer who'd ridden in on the back of Wagner's successes at Huddersfield. To quote my old mate Lapps - we were DOOMED!

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1 hour ago, splendidrush said:

The other side of this is, what if we don't get promoted? Chances are that several of the players we've enjoyed this season will be off. If silly offers come in for Aarons, Lewis, Buendia, Leitner and Godfrey, yes we'll have plenty of money, but little chance of promotion next year while another re build  happens. 

What a miserable perception you have of our club and our players. Fact is, if we don't get promoted we do not need to sell anyone. We will be two seasons into a well-managed project which has seen consistent improvement over that time, with a unity,  a spirit and a level of -- for lack of a better way of putting it -- job satisfaction that no amount of money can guarantee to create.

What is it with people? From a position where most were saying a top six finish was the limit of what could be hoped for, we are now apparently faced by free fall in the event we don't get promoted! None of you thought promotion was on the cards in the first place; how many of you were predicting disaster next season in consequence?

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Nothing miserable about it. Reality is if we're not promoted, other Clubs, with much bigger wallets will come a calling. Aarons, wonderful player, just 19, what's his current value? 20 million? If Chelsea offered 30 would the Club turn it down, even if we don't need the money?

Nobody said we faced 'free fall' but if we're not promoted it's clear that our budget would be greatly restricted for future investment in the squad. 

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2 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

Nothing miserable about it. Reality is if we're not promoted, other Clubs, with much bigger wallets will come a calling. Aarons, wonderful player, just 19, what's his current value? 20 million? If Chelsea offered 30 would the Club turn it down, even if we don't need the money?

Nobody said we faced 'free fall' but if we're not promoted it's clear that our budget would be greatly restricted for future investment in the squad. 

The word "reality" doesn't belong in a post suggesting that Chelsea might offer 30 million for Aarons. In point of fact, typical of the lack of realism evident in a lot of this discussion. It's obvious that in the event we do not get promoted there will be less money than if we do. All that would mean is that, financially speaking, we would be where everybody expected us to be next season anyway. 

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26 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said:

The word "reality" doesn't belong in a post suggesting that Chelsea might offer 30 million for Aarons. In point of fact, typical of the lack of realism evident in a lot of this discussion. It's obvious that in the event we do not get promoted there will be less money than if we do. All that would mean is that, financially speaking, we would be where everybody expected us to be next season anyway. 

But you said 'we don't need to sell ' I'm saying it's not as simple as that and used Aarons as an example. It's clear that expectations change as the season progresses, I'm not saying it's our right to go up,  just that if the opportunity is there this season, we should take it, ready or not. 

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3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Be careful when predicting the future. 

Six months ago the predictions were we'd have nobody to score any goals. We'd sold all the players worth having except Lewis who would go before the window shut. This was the future with a cook and a nephew pulling the strings. Farke was clueless and his football worse still. Webber was a chancer who'd ridden in on the back of Wagner's successes at Huddersfield. To quote my old mate Lapps - we were DOOMED!

Yeah...

 

but “it’s all gone quiet over there” 

 

Klose will come in when fit. He’s one of the few players that commands a starting position in the squad. I’d argue that Leitner would go straight back in too but Vrancic is a quality player and we’ve coped admirably while missing most at some point. 

 

As for Godfrey; I’ve been impressed by him. Composed, talented, strong and quick. Yes; he’ll get better but I’m glad he’s ours and IF we are missing Timm, I’d prefer Big Ben chiming in with good performances than go Hanley and Zimbo. 

 

Its very much Klose or Godfrey and Hanley or Zimmerman for me. Only in a necessity would we go with either pair as a combination. 

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1 hour ago, splendidrush said:

But you said 'we don't need to sell ' I'm saying it's not as simple as that and used Aarons as an example. It's clear that expectations change as the season progresses, I'm not saying it's our right to go up,  just that if the opportunity is there this season, we should take it, ready or not. 

Nor is it as simple as "If someone offered such and such the club would take it". The sales of Maddison and the Murphys were enforced and part of a plan. We are not now in that position. Nor is it as simple as "If this or that big club comes calling, player X will jump at it". 
What I'm commenting on is the reappearance of a particular form of argument:  

"We have a chance of promotion ergo we should do everything possible to secure it even if it means temporarily (it's always regarded as just temporary) readjusting our priorities and thinking short term rather than long. After all the prize is so great ........."

Just imagine if we actually did have some spare cash in the kitty; there would have been plenty on here clamouring for it to be spent on last minute strengthening "to get us over the line". Hence my question: have people learned nothing?

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I still think promotion has to be a priority given the position we're in. I'm not advocating spending during this window. Indeed our record of spending big in recent seasons has proved to be a disaster. 

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