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Bielsa to resign?

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I guess the problem is that there isn’t any need to prove guilt - he appears to have admitted to doing much the same to all clubs - but what to do about it.  

Yes, the players have got the club to where they are in the league by playing well, but with hindsight it has been made easier for them by the Coach having additional knowledge about the opposition that he ‘shouldn't’ have...the game can be about fine lines and it can make a big difference knowing about an injury or ‘surprise’ formations/tactics.  IMO, two things need considering - if it wasn’t wrong why not be upfront about it, and if it didn’t give an advantage then why did they do it.  

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While it could be argued that Bielsa has done nothing illegal in this instance, Dave Carolan,interviewed on Pink Un.com stated that in their opening game of the season, Stoke complained that there were recognized 'coaches ' in the crowd feeding information while the game was in play. That IS illegal and if the authorities take it into consideration, they're unlikely to be so charitable when it comes to issuing punishments. 

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45 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

in their opening game of the season, Stoke complained that there were recognized 'coaches ' in the crowd feeding information while the game was in play. That IS illegal

What exactly is illegal? Are you saying that real-time analysis of a game is illegal? That doing it from the stands is illegal? That communicating it to the dugout is illegal? Or what?

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No westcoast. What Dave Carolan said is that it's illegal. Coaching can only come from the technical area during play. Watch the Pink Un show he explains it better than me. 

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Derby need to review their own security around their training facility....in our case, I'm not sure how easy it would be for anyone to spy on our training ahead of a game?

In years gone by anyone could walk into thebmaon entrance at Colney, nowadays theres a security guard there manning an office with a barrier.

  Unless the said spy somehow was walking around the fields somewhere else around the preimeter fence?

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It's a fine line surely.

Legal? Probably.

Cheating? Certainly.

This isn't Argentina where seemingly anything goes to gain advantage.

It's not even in the league of athletes drug use or  the Aussie ball tampering though.

It makes our pink away dressing rooms seem paltry to the extreme by comparison and that was an idea copied from American football. 

All sports have their own 'legal system' (code of conduct) by necessity and if this is breached punishment must ensue.

 

Let's hope that this will drag on for as long as possible because as Bielsa illustrated yesterday it is already causing concern in his mind (emergency press conference) and this will seep through to his team.

Binoculars, change of clothing and even rumours of wire cutters, my goodness.  They will get a punishment, but not a points deduction, imo.

(Please DF do not delay the team's halftime entrance anymore as even that will blown up out of all proportion now.)

Good news all-round for City surely. 

Our football has developed into a game where where  cheating is rife both on (diving etc.) and off (illegal tapping up etc) the field. It has gradually crept up which is probably one reason why we accept it.

Get a grip FA. 

REMAIN CLEAN NCFC

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10 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

The ‘spy’ didn’t have pliers and he didn’t trespass. He stood on a public highway and looked over a not particularly high bush. 

The reaction to ‘spygate’ all feels a bit ridiculous and sanctimonious to me. Bielsa certainly isn’t the first person to do it in the Championship and won’t be the last. He is just the only one honest to admit he does it. 

Talk of deducting points is ludicrous, the EFL even investigating it is over the top. 

Frank Lampard mentioned something about pliers, so will obviously go with what he said. If the spy (and yes, he was a spy, simple as that) was watching on from a public area as opposed to land owned by DCFC, I’m not sure why the police picked him up in the first place then?Regardless, cheating should not be accepted in the field of sport, it goes against the spirit of the game - you might find it all a bit ‘ridiculous’, but the bigger pictures that it’s exactly this kind of lack of integrity that harms the name of our beautiful game. Any other form of cheating would be heavily punished by the FA/EFL, so I do not see why this incident should be exempt from ‘even investigation’, no matter how ridiculous you find it.

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Only one honest to admit he does it?!

Only one who has been caught you mean. Had they not been rumbled at Derby, they'd have carried on doing it in the background. Hardly "honest" behaviour, is it?

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Gaining unfair advantage over your opponents needs investigating at the very least otherwise the game it's self will continue down the slippery slope of disrepute.

Goodness  knows what he might have found out, players missing, tactics at corners, penalty takers, Bradley Johnson's latest hairstyle. The list is endless.

No wonder Lampard was furious at being subject to dirty tricks. This was an important fixture. 

'Spies' taking notes at games is fair enough, but spying on your opponents  preparing for that game is blatant cheating.

Unsavoury. 

Edited by BroadstairsR
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For me the only thing he has done is acted outside the spirit of the game, it's not the British way (or so we are led to believe) but i'm sure as already mentioned he is not the only one to do it.

I don't see how the EFL can do anything, other than a token warning about conduct. Anything more would be an overreaction imo. 

 

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I'd be surprised if the EFL haven't worked in some woolly, vague ruling about bringing the game into disrepute as a bit of a catch all. I don't doubt he is right that there is anything specific in the rules about spying per se, but I doubt there is also anything specific in the rules about having a stripper suddenly appear behind the goal as an opponent takes a penalty but I suspect if a team deployed such a tactic they would be punished. I wouldn't mind seeing the powerpoint presentation excusing that one.

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So, why didn't he go up to the front gates at Derby (and everywhere else) and say "Can i come in and watch your lads training".?

Like Bielsa said, he has done it all season, and the protracted explanation yesterday was meant to be some sort of dumbing down of the whole process about it all. Funny enough, he has only come out with this because he was caught.........

 

Didn't Lampard, last Friday, say something about something similar happening, the last time these two teams met, but it wasn't (hasn't) been dealt with?

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In the Sky interview before the Leeds Derby game, Lampard said something about the spy being able to see that, amongst other things, Derby didn't have Wilson involved in the training (injured presumably), therefore they could conclude that he wouldn't be playing and wouldn't have to consider tactics to counteract him.

For me, its that sort of thing that is a bit out of order and gives them some pre-match advantage.

 

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6 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Frank Lampard mentioned something about pliers, so will obviously go with what he said. If the spy (and yes, he was a spy, simple as that) was watching on from a public area as opposed to land owned by DCFC, I’m not sure why the police picked him up in the first place then?Regardless, cheating should not be accepted in the field of sport, it goes against the spirit of the game - you might find it all a bit ‘ridiculous’, but the bigger pictures that it’s exactly this kind of lack of integrity that harms the name of our beautiful game. Any other form of cheating would be heavily punished by the FA/EFL, so I do not see why this incident should be exempt from ‘even investigation’, no matter how ridiculous you find it.

Why don’t people do their research for gods sake? Derbyshire Police on their official twitter said they turned up after someone looked suspicious. When they got there, the man was on a public footpath, completely above board and committing no crime. They asked him to leave politely and he went. They also stated they never disclosed anything to Derby and that they never stepped foot inside the training ground or disrupted any sessions. The pliers, ladders,  change of clothes nonsense Is Chinese whispers propogated by Lampard to make this worse than it is. Derby should train indoors away from public view if they are so worried about their tactics getting out.

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18 minutes ago, Ant said:

Why don’t people do their research for gods sake? Derbyshire Police on their official twitter said they turned up after someone looked suspicious. When they got there, the man was on a public footpath, completely above board and committing no crime. They asked him to leave politely and he went. They also stated they never disclosed anything to Derby and that they never stepped foot inside the training ground or disrupted any sessions. The pliers, ladders,  change of clothes nonsense Is Chinese whispers propogated by Lampard to make this worse than it is. Derby should train indoors away from public view if they are so worried about their tactics getting out.

Perhaps because a.) I listened to one of the parties involved i.e Frank Lampard, whom I would think would be as good a genuine source as any, and b.) I’m not so fussed about it that I’m going to spend hours of my day delving into the deepest depths of ‘Spygate’ just to be correct on an Internet forum... 🤦🏻‍♂️

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58 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Perhaps because a.) I listened to one of the parties involved i.e Frank Lampard, whom I would think would be as good a genuine source as any, and b.) I’m not so fussed about it that I’m going to spend hours of my day delving into the deepest depths of ‘Spygate’ just to be correct on an Internet forum... 🤦🏻‍♂️

Ah I see. They call that anti-intellectualism. Your feelings versus actual research and knowledge. Kind of renders your opinion void no?

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44 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Ant? First post comes on here to defend Leed's actions.

I wonder what club he supports?

Don’t need to wonder. I support Leeds and am intrigued to see what fans of other clubs think. And then want to put them right when they get basic facts wrong which are actually quite disparaging. Seen as though the whole topic seems to be about ethics. Funny that.

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3 minutes ago, Ant said:

Don’t need to wonder. I support Leeds and am intrigued to see what fans of other clubs think. And then want to put them right when they get basic facts wrong which are actually quite disparaging. Seen as though the whole topic seems to be about ethics. Funny that.

Beielsa admitted it in today's press conference.More Argi bargie,

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11 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Derby need to review their own security around their training facility....in our case, I'm not sure how easy it would be for anyone to spy on our training ahead of a game?

In years gone by anyone could walk into thebmaon entrance at Colney, nowadays theres a security guard there manning an office with a barrier.

  Unless the said spy somehow was walking around the fields somewhere else around the preimeter fence?

Derby do have barriers and a guard on the gate. However, the tress lining the fences are not exactly dense.... https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9435165,-1.4182045,3a,75y,125.97h,94.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYZjKbV6HSLyX9FirBkCLUg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

image.png.515a3d778e7094a7db69b6bfbf12d0e8.png

image.png.477f549ff9eb549e069f94c26f90279b.png

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4 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Beielsa admitted it in today's press conference.More Argi bargie,

Admitted what? That someone was on their hands and knees with pliers? Don’t remember that bit, care to share? He said they had watched training from all their opponents. As long as nobody has broken in or committed criminal damage, that is called leaving no stone unturned. And it goes on everywhere, you just don’t hear about it.

Its fine, I didn’t expect anything less from clubs desperate for us to have points docked. 

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I'm surprised the Sun didn't describe the bloke as SAS.

Little transfer activity and no midweek games except one involving Lampard so it is in the news. Personally, I have never heard so much balderdash in my entirety. Football matches turn on the slightest and silliest of things (floodlight failure?) and whatever a spy may gain it can alter with a dodgy ref or an injury.

Bielsa obviously thinks it works and helps him. Some coaches think hairdriers work whilst others are calm and collected. As long as the person doesn't trespass then its open for anyone.

Blimey I remember Trowse. You couldn't get much more open than that.

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I haven't seen anyone saying that Leeds need points docking. It's all abut Bielsa.

Not all Clubs have public access to their training facilities, so yes, it is about  ethics.

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52 minutes ago, Ant said:

Admitted what? That someone was on their hands and knees with pliers? Don’t remember that bit, care to share? He said they had watched training from all their opponents. As long as nobody has broken in or committed criminal damage, that is called leaving no stone unturned. And it goes on everywhere, you just don’t hear about it.

Its fine, I didn’t expect anything less from clubs desperate for us to have points docked. 

Everything in your complaints may superficially be 100% true and fair but...

1) I believe the point is whether fa rules on club conduct were broken , not laws of the land . And if they have, then the minimum operative principle might be ‘don't get caught, dumbdumb ’

 

2) this is one place where you won’t find LUFC getting the benefit of any doubt. Too much at stake, too much recent history between us, and too much objectively to dislike about your lot

Edited by GenerationA47
Clarification

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1 hour ago, Ant said:

Don’t need to wonder. I support Leeds and am intrigued to see what fans of other clubs think. And then want to put them right when they get basic facts wrong which are actually quite disparaging. Seen as though the whole topic seems to be about ethics. Funny that.

Are you spying on our forum?.......I'm gonna tell on you........

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It’s astonishing that a Leeds fan tries to make out they know 100% what did and didn’t happen.  I doubt he knows no more than any of us do.

Did Leeds seek to gain an underhand advantage? Absolutely.  Is it in the spirit of the rules? No.  Is it ‘illegal’?  Probably not.  But the laws of the land and rules within football are a completely different thing.  

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They've probably breached the terms of the 'club charter' that all the clubs signed in the summer, and they've probably broken a league rule relating to sportsmanlike conduct/spirit of the game. The sooner the authorities give them a fine, slap their wrists and we can all move on the better. Talk about a mountain out of a molehill...

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