Bradwell canary 109 Posted January 14, 2019 During those great years of Lamberts reign, he was a master of getting his substitute decision spot on. Pleasing to see by Saturdays game Farke seems to have that same skill in tactics in getting it right. Must be quite a skill to have as a manager. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,520 Posted January 14, 2019 There is always going to be a certain amount of luck involved with substitutions - the main thing is having the quality on the bench to make a difference, but what Farke does seem to which is similar to Lambert - is to be positive. Fortune favours the brave! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Woodman 92 Posted January 14, 2019 I think most managers would put on a forward player when a goal down & chasing a result. What Farke seems to be good at (and has the players in the squad to achieve it), is changing his formation as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icecream Snow 761 Posted January 14, 2019 Thought Culverhouse did all the substitutions and tactical changes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,290 Posted January 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Woodman said: I think most managers would put on a forward player when a goal down & chasing a result. What Farke seems to be good at (and has the players in the squad to achieve it), is changing his formation as well. You are correct, but oddly, didn't Hughton in the PL make defensive substitutions when we were in a losing position? I seem to remember he made changes very late in the game. Frustrating times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted January 14, 2019 19 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said: Thought Culverhouse did all the substitutions and tactical changes? Rule when discussing Lambert- anything good, Culverhouse did it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, king canary said: Rule when discussing Lambert- anything good, Culverhouse did it. I think it was Delia doing the good stuff. She's the only one who has achieved anything since.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, nutty nigel said: I think it was Delia doing the good stuff. She's the only one who has achieved anything since.... Delia got lucky by hiring McNally. Lambert got lucky because he inherited Holt and Hoolahan, plus he had Culverhouse doing all the work. Really I think we all owe a massive debt of gratitude to Gunn and Doncaster. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted January 14, 2019 Of course hiring Webber is another huge slice of luck. As was the appointment of Worthington. Without such fortune all she would have achieved is relegation to division three old money.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said: Of course hiring Webber is another huge slice of luck. As was the appointment of Worthington. Without such fortune all she would have achieved is relegation to division three old money.... You've nailed it. Of course Grant, Roeder, Hamilton and Gunn were all unlucky. The universe is chaos and nothing we do has any bearing on the world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted January 14, 2019 Gunny was unlucky to inherit from Grant and Roeder... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,520 Posted January 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, king canary said: Delia got lucky by hiring McNally. Lambert got lucky because he inherited Holt and Hoolahan, plus he had Culverhouse doing all the work. Really I think we all owe a massive debt of gratitude to Gunn and Doncaster. Joking aside, Gunn was very instrumental at getting Holt in to the club - the key figure in our transformation on the pitch during the Lambert years. No-one is all-bad or all-good, it's just that on forums like these people like to say "he/she is great" or "he/she" is rubbish" - the truth is often in between those extremes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted January 14, 2019 Changing tactics, like 3 at the back , can come back and bite you, like against Derby ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, lake district canary said: Joking aside, Gunn was very instrumental at getting Holt in to the club - the key figure in our transformation on the pitch during the Lambert years. No-one is all-bad or all-good, it's just that on forums like these people like to say "he/she is great" or "he/she" is rubbish" - the truth is often in between those extremes. Gunn was rubbish though. Signing one good player doesn't stop you being a rubbish manager. Roeder signed Wes, he was still rubbish. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted January 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said: Gunny was unlucky to inherit from Grant and Roeder... I honestly have Grant down as one of the worst things to happen here- his use of his transfer budget was questionable to say the least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted January 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, king canary said: I honestly have Grant down as one of the worst things to happen here- his use of his transfer budget was questionable to say the least. Totally. I liken it to the situation we were in last year except Grant replaced quality with dross. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,204 Posted January 14, 2019 Lakey’s point is essentially right, as even ‘mistakes’ can create conditions for future success. Doncaster’s desire to reduce pcm overheads and contractual liabilities dovetailed with Roeder’s penchant for flashing his contacts books and led to a preponderance of loans. This in turn ensured that Lambert inherited a very clean slate in typical football terms (excepting the key Holt-Hoolahan-Martin axis), allowing him to mould a New Model Army in his (younger) image from a luxurious blank sheet of football paper. I suspect that this is his true skill and relegation and thinning out at Ipswich may suit him well (unlike huge piles of deadwood at Villa). Parma Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted January 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: This in turn ensured that Lambert inherited a very clean slate in typical football terms Not quite how I remember it. Lambert inherited a squad stuffed with dross signed by Gunn that he couldn't use, which I imagine did hamstring him in the transfer market at least a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,520 Posted January 14, 2019 41 minutes ago, king canary said: Not quite how I remember it. Lambert inherited a squad stuffed with dross signed by Gunn that he couldn't use, which I imagine did hamstring him in the transfer market at least a bit. Lambert used largely Gunn's squad in League 1. Forster and Russell Martin were the main two who Lambert got in, but largely the success of that season was down to the players that Lambert inherited from Gunn - look at any team sheet in that season and you will see it. Yes, he built on that towards the end of the season and into the next, but as far as the success in League 1 goes, the players used were mostly already in the squad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted January 14, 2019 Askou, Gill, Hughes, McVeigh, Nelson and Holt were all used to good effect by Lambert. Theoklitos, Maric, Tudor-Jones, Whaley and Wiggins weren't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but my main memory of that season was a usual first XI of... Forster Martin, Nelson, Doherty, Drury Russell, Smith, Lappin Wes Martin Holt Most of those players were pre Gunn. Edited January 14, 2019 by king canary typo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted January 14, 2019 2009-2010 season Appearances/Goals Includes appearances as a substitute Last updated: May 8, 2010 PLAYER LEAGUE CUP TOTAL CAREER App Gls App Gls App Gls App Gls Tom Adeyemi 11 0 6 0 17 0 17 0 Ben Alnwick 3 0 3 0 6 0 6 0 Jens Berthel Askou 22 2 5 0 27 2 27 2 Jamie Cureton 6 2 2 0 8 2 108 23 Luke Daley 7 0 3 0 10 0 13 0 Josh Dawkin 0 0 3 0 3 0 3 0 Gary Doherty 38 6 6 1 44 7 227 14 Adam Drury 35 0 4 0 39 0 323 3 Dario Dumic 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 Stephen Elliott 10 2 0 0 10 2 10 2 Fraser Forster 38 0 4 0 42 0 42 0 George Francomb 2 0 1 0 3 0 3 0 Matthew Gill 8 0 2 0 10 0 10 0 Sam Habergham 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Grant Holt 39 24 5 6 44 30 44 30 Wes Hoolahan 37 11 5 3 42 14 77 16 Stephen Hughes 29 3 5 0 34 3 34 3 Oli Johnson 17 4 0 0 17 4 17 4 Danny Kelly 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Simon Lappin 44 0 6 0 50 0 88 3 Damon Lathrope 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Goran Maric 0 0 2 0 2 0 2 0 Chris Martin 42 17 6 6 48 23 78 28 Russell Martin 26 0 1 0 27 0 27 0 Cody McDonald 17 3 8 1 25 4 32 5 Anthony McNamee 17 1 0 0 17 1 17 1 Paul McVeigh 9 0 2 0 11 0 246 40 Michael Nelson 31 3 5 0 36 3 36 3 Jon Otsemobor 13 1 4 0 17 1 104 2 Michael Rose 12 1 0 0 12 1 12 1 Declan Rudd 7 0 1 0 8 0 8 0 Darel Russell 35 2 4 0 39 2 271 19 Korey Smith 37 4 3 0 40 4 42 4 Michael Spillane 13 1 3 0 16 1 33 1 David Stephens 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 Michael Theoklitos 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 Owain Tudur Jones 3 1 3 0 6 1 6 1 Simon Whaley 3 0 3 0 6 0 6 0 Zak Whitbread 4 0 0 0 4 0 4 0 Rhoys Wiggins 0 0 3 0 3 0 3 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted January 14, 2019 How could we forget Cody.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,520 Posted January 14, 2019 It shows what I said earlier on this thread - or was it another thread - no-one is all good or all bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,455 Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, nutty nigel said: 2009-2010 season Appearances/Goals Includes appearances as a substitute Last updated: May 8, 2010 PLAYER LEAGUE CUP TOTAL CAREER App Gls App Gls App Gls App Gls Tom Adeyemi 11 0 6 0 17 0 17 0 Ben Alnwick 3 0 3 0 6 0 6 0 Jens Berthel Askou 22 2 5 0 27 2 27 2 Jamie Cureton 6 2 2 0 8 2 108 23 Luke Daley 7 0 3 0 10 0 13 0 Josh Dawkin 0 0 3 0 3 0 3 0 Gary Doherty 38 6 6 1 44 7 227 14 Adam Drury 35 0 4 0 39 0 323 3 Dario Dumic 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 Stephen Elliott 10 2 0 0 10 2 10 2 Fraser Forster 38 0 4 0 42 0 42 0 George Francomb 2 0 1 0 3 0 3 0 Matthew Gill 8 0 2 0 10 0 10 0 Sam Habergham 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Grant Holt 39 24 5 6 44 30 44 30 Wes Hoolahan 37 11 5 3 42 14 77 16 Stephen Hughes 29 3 5 0 34 3 34 3 Oli Johnson 17 4 0 0 17 4 17 4 Danny Kelly 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Simon Lappin 44 0 6 0 50 0 88 3 Damon Lathrope 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Goran Maric 0 0 2 0 2 0 2 0 Chris Martin 42 17 6 6 48 23 78 28 Russell Martin 26 0 1 0 27 0 27 0 Cody McDonald 17 3 8 1 25 4 32 5 Anthony McNamee 17 1 0 0 17 1 17 1 Paul McVeigh 9 0 2 0 11 0 246 40 Michael Nelson 31 3 5 0 36 3 36 3 Jon Otsemobor 13 1 4 0 17 1 104 2 Michael Rose 12 1 0 0 12 1 12 1 Declan Rudd 7 0 1 0 8 0 8 0 Darel Russell 35 2 4 0 39 2 271 19 Korey Smith 37 4 3 0 40 4 42 4 Michael Spillane 13 1 3 0 16 1 33 1 David Stephens 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 Michael Theoklitos 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 Owain Tudur Jones 3 1 3 0 6 1 6 1 Simon Whaley 3 0 3 0 6 0 6 0 Zak Whitbread 4 0 0 0 4 0 4 0 Rhoys Wiggins 0 0 3 0 3 0 3 0 Interesting. I'd love to see how many of those were starts- Stephen Hughes for example I don't remember being used that much. It does show that only 3 of Gunn's 12 signings were involved in over 50% of league games which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. Edited January 14, 2019 by king canary typo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted January 14, 2019 Stephen Hughes was a regular starter until he got injured and was one of our best players that autumn. As for how many were sub appearances, it makes no difference to the point made that they were used to good effect by Lambert. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
splendidrush 698 Posted January 14, 2019 Interesting to see how many were shown the door at the end of that season, from memory we were a very different outfit the following year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,352 Posted January 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, splendidrush said: Interesting to see how many were shown the door at the end of that season, from memory we were a very different outfit the following year. Indeed. PLAYER LEAGUE FA CUP CARLING TOTAL CAREER App Gls App Gls App Gls App Gls App Gls Tom Adeyemi 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 17 0 Jens Berthel Askou 5 0 0 0 1 1 6 1 33 3 Leon Barnett 25 1 1 0 0 0 26 1 26 1 Andrew Crofts 44 8 0 0 0 0 44 8 44 8 Luke Daley 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 14 0 Josh Dawkin 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 Adam Drury 20 1 1 0 1 0 22 1 345 4 Rob Edwards 3 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 3 0 David Fox 32 1 1 0 2 0 35 1 35 1 George Francomb 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 4 0 Matthew Gill 4 0 0 0 1 0 5 0 15 0 Sam Habergham 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Grant Holt 45 21 1 0 2 2 48 23 92 53 Wes Hoolahan 41 10 1 0 2 0 44 10 121 26 Stephen Hughes 1 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 36 3 Simeon Jackson 39 13 1 0 1 0 41 13 41 13 Oli Johnson 4 0 0 0 2 0 6 0 23 4 Henri Lansbury 23 4 0 0 0 0 23 4 23 4 Simon Lappin 27 0 1 0 2 0 30 0 118 3 Chris Martin 30 4 1 0 1 2 32 6 110 34 Russell Martin 46 5 1 0 2 0 49 5 76 5 Cody McDonald 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 32 5 Anthony McNamee 17 0 1 0 2 0 20 0 37 1 Michael Nelson 8 2 0 0 1 0 9 2 45 5 Dani Pacheco 6 2 0 0 0 0 6 2 6 2 Declan Rudd 1 0 1 0 1 0 3 0 11 0 John Ruddy 45 0 0 0 1 0 46 0 46 0 Korey Smith 28 0 1 0 1 0 30 0 72 4 Steven Smith 7 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 7 0 Jed Steer 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Andrew Surman 22 3 0 0 0 0 22 3 22 3 Marc Tierney 16 0 0 0 0 0 16 0 16 0 Owain Tudur Jones 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 8 1 Sam Vokes 4 1 0 0 0 0 4 1 4 1 Elliott Ward 39 1 0 0 2 0 41 1 41 1 Zak Whitbread 22 1 1 0 0 0 23 1 27 1 Aaron Wilbraham 12 1 1 0 0 0 13 1 13 1 Including a few Lambert duds. Smudgers old mate MacNamee, Oli Johnson and Steven Smith. But to be fair all this is nothing unusual. Every season players disappoint while others surprise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ron obvious 1,473 Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, king canary said: You've nailed it. Of course Grant, Roeder, Hamilton and Gunn were all unlucky. The universe is chaos and nothing we do has any bearing on the world. The universe is a concatenation of every cause & event effect, of which there are untold googleplexes, since the Big Bang. Everything is totally inevitable & completely unpredictable. No such thing as luck. Just unpredictability. We are surfing the dialectic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FenwayFrank 2,425 Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, ron obvious said: The universe is a concatenation of every cause & event effect, of which there are untold googleplexes, since the Big Bang. Everything is totally inevitable & completely unpredictable. No such thing as luck. Just unpredictability. We are surfing the dialectic. I thought that was Parma summarising kick off on Saturday 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites