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River End Canary

What’s the point of having a squad?

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If all you do is play the same players week after week even if they are physically knackered 

what has Ben Marshall got to do to get a game, why did Hanley  it start.

He has to learn and learn quickly if we are to sustain a challenge over the course of the season

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I get what you're saying (to an extent) but I feel as though people would also moan if we did change the team and rotate it constantly. Happened a bit more last season while Farke was trying to find his best team. It didn't work, on more than one occasion.

No, I think if he did rotate the team a lot we'd then get people saying "Why doesn't he stick with a winning team??!"

In other words, among some, Farke can't win.

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He didn't need to make 6 or 7 but I think it is no coincidence we had two more players limp off with injuries.

I was expecting two or three changes- Marshall, Hanley and maybe Trybull were obvious candidates for a runout. 

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Yeah, felt keeping the same team who had played most of the gruelling festive period was a mistake yesterday and the injuries almost certain came about due to it. 

If it wasn’t a cup game next weekend I’m pretty sure there would have been changes. I do worry Fakre doesn’t rotate enough and that he seems to struggle to get performances out of some players. Ben Marshall is a proven Championship player and should have be allowed to contribute more to the season so far. 

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Just now, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Yeah, felt keeping the same team who had played most of the gruelling festive period was a mistake yesterday and the injuries almost certain came about due to it. 

If it wasn’t a cup game next weekend I’m pretty sure there would have been changes. I do worry Fakre doesn’t rotate enough and that he seems to struggle to get performances out of some players. Ben Marshall is a proven Championship player and should have be allowed to contribute more to the season so far. 

I made the point on the match thread that Farke only seems to want to use a small group- I wanted Marshall on as our third sub yesterday but was pretty confident he'd use Srbeny instead and he did. 

 

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Yeah, the Srbeny sub on 86 minutes is pretty much a shoe in when chasing a result. 

It is also a shame that when games like Swansea and Sheff Wed, when the result is pretty much safe he’ll still bring on the regulars and not give Marshall some minutes to keep up his fitness etc. 

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Just now, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Yeah, the Srbeny sub on 86 minutes is pretty much a shoe in when chasing a result. 

It is also a shame that when games like Swansea and Sheff Wed, when the result is pretty much safe he’ll still bring on the regulars and not give Marshall some minutes to keep up his fitness etc. 

It might have made more sense if we'd just started going long and used his height to trouble Brentford but we didn't. I thought adding Marshall would stretch the play and give us Hernandez and Marshall to supply the kind of balls Rhodes thrives on.

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Equally, maybe Marshall isn't showing enough in training? 

I'm not sure we are in a position to be too critical of Farke's ability to get performances out of players when you consider our financial outlay and current table position. It seems to lack merit.

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9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Equally, maybe Marshall isn't showing enough in training? 

I'm not sure we are in a position to be too critical of Farke's ability to get performances out of players when you consider our financial outlay and current table position. It seems to lack merit.

Of course, but if he is working a small group of players too hard then he isn’t managing his squad correctly across a season. It would be such a shame if the excellent work put in at the beginning of the season is undermined by players getting injured and running out of gas in the final months. 

Even if Marshall isn’t producing top quality performances in training he can still contribute to the team. Given Norwich’s lack of resources it is even more important to involve everyone. Marshall hasn’t become a bad player all of a sudden. 

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8 minutes ago, River End Canary said:

I agree hoggy but he called it wrong yesterday 

With the benefit of hindsight I agree with you. However, most people were accepting over the summer that Farke is a young manager still learning his trade and learning the ropes of English football, and he is bound to make mistakes. He has raised his bar much higher with what he's achieved so far this season, so we need to be forgiving of him when he does make those mistakes.

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And if he'd made 4/5 changes and we went down 2/3 nil? Hindsight is a wonderful thing; we definitely looked tired (Vrancic in particular was very poor), but there's no guarantee that changing things up would have improved the result.

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Bethnal is right unless you use the full squad eventually you will get dissatisfaction breeding because of the perception of favouritism 

Hopefully a completely fresh 11 for the cup game 

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9 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

With the benefit of hindsight I agree with you. However, most people were accepting over the summer that Farke is a young manager still learning his trade and learning the ropes of English football, and he is bound to make mistakes. He has raised his bar much higher with what he's achieved so far this season, so we need to be forgiving of him when he does make those mistakes.

People are being perfectly forgiving- it isn't like people are calling for his head. However if he makes errors (and this was one, not just with the benefit of hindsight as lots of people were talking about the need for rotation pre match) then they will be discussed.

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10 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

With the benefit of hindsight I agree with you. However, most people were accepting over the summer that Farke is a young manager still learning his trade and learning the ropes of English football, and he is bound to make mistakes. He has raised his bar much higher with what he's achieved so far this season, so we need to be forgiving of him when he does make those mistakes.

I am surprised you haven’t ignore buttoned me 😜

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6 minutes ago, River End Canary said:

I am surprised you haven’t ignore buttoned me 😜

New forum, new start. OTBC!

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29 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Of course, but if he is working a small group of players too hard then he isn’t managing his squad correctly across a season. It would be such a shame if the excellent work put in at the beginning of the season is undermined by players getting injured and running out of gas in the final months. 

Even if Marshall isn’t producing top quality performances in training he can still contribute to the team. Given Norwich’s lack of resources it is even more important to involve everyone. Marshall hasn’t become a bad player all of a sudden. 

However, as you alluded to earlier, we have an FA Cup Weekend. Maybe he thought they could go one more time and then make wholesale changes next week?

Not unreasonable considering we were already without Buendia, Leitner, and Lewis. More changes could have resulted in a worse performance.

Did Leeds rotate at the weekend? Did West Brom? We certainly picked up a point yesterday when they didn't. That would suggest Farke maybe got it right?

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6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

However, as you alluded to earlier, we have an FA Cup Weekend. Maybe he thought they could go one more time and then make wholesale changes next week?

Not unreasonable considering we were already without Buendia, Leitner, and Lewis. More changes could have resulted in a worse performance.

Did Leeds rotate at the weekend? Did West Brom? We certainly picked up a point yesterday when they didn't. That would suggest Farke maybe got it right?

Personally I think Farke should have rotate more regularly earlier in the season. Even though Norwich got a point, two players were injured in the process so hard to say that ‘he got it right’. When others could have started ahead of them without it seemingly harming the teams ability to not get beat. 

Who knows, maybe a fresh Marshall might have contributed to Norwich winning the game not just drawing? Obviously no one can say which approach is best, as there is no way of testing out the variables. But if Tettey or Stipermann is out for more than a few weeks then it is going to  end up being a very costly decision to start them. 

These are hard decision and rotation will always lead to criticism, but the Christmas period is famously hard and by not resting players who Farke has admitted were struggling maybe he made some bad calls. He’s got a hell of a lot more right than wrong this season, but doesn’t mean that he should never be criticised or questioned. 

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I'd expect McGovern, Marshall, Passlack, Hanley, Trybull, Srbeny and Rhodes to start against Portsmouth. Maybe Mclean will be fit enough as well. Probably Godfrey and maybe Pinto to fill in at left back. (and Vrancic to make up the 11)

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Just now, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Personally I think Farke should have rotate more regularly earlier in the season. Even though Norwich got a point, two players were injured in the process so hard to say that ‘he got it right’. When others could have started ahead of them without it seemingly harming the teams ability to not get beat. 

Who knows, maybe a fresh Marshall might have contributed to Norwich winning the game not just drawing? Obviously no one can say which approach is best, as there is no way of testing out the variables. But if Tettey or Stipermann is out for more than a few weeks then it is going to  end up being a very costly decision to start them. 

These are hard decision and rotation will always lead to criticism, but the Christmas period is famously hard and by not resting players who Farke has admitted were struggling maybe he made some bad calls. He’s got a hell of a lot more right than wrong this season, but doesn’t mean that he should never be criticised or questioned. 

Didn't Farke say he expected them both to be back for the WBA game? A bullet dodged if so...

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The logic was to try and get one more game out of them and then make wholesale changes for the cup.

Whether it was right or wrong, we’ll never know but I personally was surprised to see Zimbo and Cantwell start yesterday.

Maybe the players wanted to give it another go after what happened against Derby? 

 

 

 

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Yeah, that's how I saw it Clint, and to be honest no-one can say if it was right or wrong. The only fact we can take from it is we got a point. We could have got 3 with changes, or we could have got 0.

I think a point away is always a point gained so I'm going with it being a good decision, but like I say, no one knows.

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When it comes to it we have a really strong first 11..........and after that not so much.

Those who talk about rotation are really talking about fielding a weaker team and with the small margins in some games that would have cost us points. Farke obviously doesn't rate either Hanley or Marshall. We have largely exceeded expectations with this approach helped by Cantwell, Aarons and Godfrey stepping up to the plate, Tettey's remarkable resilience & the find that has been Pukki. To pretend otherwise is to give oxygen to the moaners who sound a little bit like they are disappointed it has gone so well and are pleased that they now have an opportunity to revert to type.

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No player is ever going to say they don't want to play and shouldn't be allowed to influence a manager's team selections, other than by their performances on the pitch. I'm not surprised Zimm wasn't dropped as Farke doesn't like to be seen punishing individual errors, however relying on a relatively small group of players is potentially a dangerous outlook as it limits our capability at dealing with future injury problems - and we will have them, as well as drops in form. It's ok now because there are plenty of games remaining for the regulars to return and hopefully have a positive effect on results but if we lose key players again towards the end of the season then we could be in the exact same situation. In my opinion is was an error on Farke's part not to keep more players involved. Hanley for Zimm and Marshall for Cantwell would have been obvious choices in my opinion.

Yes we will undoubtedly see wholesale changes against Portsmouth, and rightly so, but I suspect the impact will be a thoroughly disjointed performances where Farke learns nothing, with the players subsequently dropped for the next league game and we are back where we started.

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3 minutes ago, BigFish said:

When it comes to it we have a really strong first 11..........and after that not so much.

Those who talk about rotation are really talking about fielding a weaker team and with the small margins in some games that would have cost us points. Farke obviously doesn't rate either Hanley or Marshall. We have largely exceeded expectations with this approach helped by Cantwell, Aarons and Godfrey stepping up to the plate, Tettey's remarkable resilience & the find that has been Pukki. To pretend otherwise is to give oxygen to the moaners who sound a little bit like they are disappointed it has gone so well and are pleased that they now have an opportunity to revert to type.

Christs sake.

To suggest we should rotate the squad a bit more now means you're disappointed in us doing well...

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I would prefer Krul in goal especially after how he played this weekend, he needs to keep playing it will really help his confidence if he puts in a another great performance.

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What a strange old thread this is.  Some want changes, but some are happy to see the same team.  I would trust Farke - if anyone is not getting more game time, there may be a reason for it - maybe they aren't at the technical level of the ones that are getting game time. I saw every game Marshall played in the first few games of the season and he looked ok but not brilliant, caught out of position several times. Made way for Buendia against Preston after 60 minutes and the difference showed.  Hanley too has something to prove. 

At the moment the right players are getting the game time imo, if some of the others want to get in the team a bit more, they will have to show it in maybe a cup game or two, as Aarons and Cantwell did in the League Cup matches.  I'm all for squad rotation, as long as the squad is up to the task......maybe they are, maybe the aren't, but I'd trust Farke to make those decisions....the last time I looked we're still in the top two and as long as that lasts, good luck to him.

 

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The other consideration is what the players also want, when we’re on such a solid run, most players will want to play every game, if deemed fit by our medical staff, I’m all for keeping a settled team, have to agree with making minimal changes as possible, maybe making substitutions a little earlier during Forrest & Derby games.

All about opinions, let’s be honest we were 8 minutes away from beating Derby, had we held on that would have been 5 points from the three games and still unbeaten.

Next game is all about resting the squad, bring in the fringe players.

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