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Try to be objective

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When I first looked at this forum it was pretty interesting. A large variety of subjects relating to NCFC were being discussed by a large no. of posters.

Now all I see is the same dozen or so people spitting vitriol at management, players, the board; anyone, in fact, who could possibly be involved in any position of responsibility within the club. Some seem to think it''s a conspiracy between all of them to wreck the club. I''ve also read that Norwich should be walking this division because the opposition is all rubbish.

I don''t buy any of this. Think about it.

Players: where are you going to get them? Every team in the league is on the lookout for undiscovered talent. Premiership clubs will always be able to outbid you, in glamour & potential career as well as wages & transfer fees, so clubs like Norwich will always have to take a gamble - in fact, this is true of premiership clubs too - how many of these have bought promising players who subsequently underperform?

I, & I think a lot of others too, thought Jarrett, Marney, Colin et al. looked a decent punt at the beginning of the season; obviously a lot of you had your own pet favourites who you are convinced would have been guaranteed, 24 carat, copper-bottomed stars. Assuming they were for sale. And they wanted to come here. We will never know.

Now think about the Millwall game. Listening to the commentary, & from the few snatches I''ve seen, a Norwich victory would not have been unduly flattering. Although the performance was not good, it was vastly better than the QPR & Wolves games. Previously, Millwall had drawn with the runaway Championship leaders, who needed a 90th minute equaliser. Also, far from being rubbish, the general standard of football I''ve seen on Sunday morning ITV has been far, far better than that of 2 or 3 years ago.

A word about injuries. Some people have commented that Ashton''s heading ability seems to have deteriorated. Also that JJ seems to be nervous on the ball & generally gets rid of it as soon as he can. Ashton has had a depressed fracture of the sinus & gets whacked in the face every week, JJ had a broken leg last year; previously he was described as "tough tackling". Couild there be some connection?

I believe that a horrendous injury list, players not gelling, plus poor refereeing & sheer bad luck have been the main contributors to NCFC''s disappointing season.

NOT that Nigel is blameless. I suspect he may be too much of a control freak; when things go wrong, the plan fails, the players can''t improvise? Just a guess, could easily be wrong, but he''s clearly not the most inspirational manager.

Some time ago I said I thought Norwich would be mid-table at Christmas, follwed by a steady climb up the table.

I still live in hope.

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Very good post Andrew - objective and thoughtful. The football IS generally better than a couple of years ago, a reflection of the ability of the current squad. And a few other unacceptable (in the current climate) truths - we HAVE been unlucky in some of the games, we HAVE been hurt by injury problems, and there IS a confidence problem within the team, in good part due to all the (unrepresentative of us actual spectators) "vitriol" on this forum, which players are known to visit. The handful of people who post that type of ignorant rubbish are now a serious threat to the health of the Club in my opinion.

I repeat again - it''s OK to have serious reservations about the state of things, but not OK to indulge the lynch-mob morons.

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Sound like a Roy Waller interview. ''I''ll give you the excuses and you elaborate on them.'' We cannot accept that professional footballers will feel sorry for themselves. Nigel Worthington never has and he is more entitled to feel let down than anyone else. I know Norwich people are a pretty fair bunch but let''s not accept mediocrity as we downgrade our expectations.

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I agree with all your points, Andrew, it''s a shame this wasn''t added to

the ''So who are we to blame?'' post. You could have added some much

needed balance!

That''s the main problem here at present - each post attracts replies

from those who agree with few people prepared to discuss differences of

opinion. I can''t blame them, I''d get pretty hacked off by the

thoughtless "I''m right, you''re wrong" responses that flood every

attempt at sensible debate.

My view is that the club really can''t afford to make changes, even if they wanted to. Some others say we can''t afford not

to, but would they want to risk bankrupting the club just to avoid

dropping any lower? I don''t believe the bad results will continue, but

sometimes you have to just live through events, accept that

things go wrong and deal with the results as best you can. If that

meant relegation, then I''d prefer that to throwing money like confetti

in a desperate attempt to change fate.

If you follow this to it''s conclusion, then we''re no better than the

Premiership big boys & the G14 clubs, trying to organise things so

they get all the TV, all the cash, all the best players. You stifle

football until it stagnates - no promotion or relegation, everybody

knows their place. If you want the flow between divisions, which gives

us all our hopes and fears, you have to accept that your club may be on the wrong end of it.

This is the truth which is so unpalateable to many of the top flight

that they are in potential financial meltdown trying to avoid it.

Supporters always want the best for their club - perhaps they too have

lost sight of the bigger picture. No-one courts relegation (and I don''t

think we''re bad enough to go down), but sometimes you can''t just dump

managers and players to turn things around. That''s when you

have to bite the bullet and just hope for the best from what you have.

Campaigning for a change that can''t and won''t happen just leaves you

feeling bitter and sour.

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"Listening to the commentary, & from the few snatches I''ve seen, a Norwich victory would not have been unduly flattering"

believe me watchin the game at the Den there was little to choose between the two sides. Having 2 good situations in 90 mins (the denied penalty and goal-line clearance) is very poor against the bottom side in the league who had not won at home whatever way you look at it.

Having been to qpr and luton too and the many dire home performances too i think its very hard to be restrained in one''s criticism.

There are no excuses. The club deserves most of the criticism it gets.

 

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I don''t understand this post. Where did I say anyone was entitled to feel sorry for themselves? It''s just a fact; some people will not be psychologically affected by a broken leg, others will - I remember Stuart Pearce trying to "run it off"!! It wouldn''t surprise me if Ashton was now seen as vulnerable to the odd elbow in the face by Championship defenders - rather like boxers used to go for Henry Coopers''s etebrows.

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I have to say that there is a marked difference between the sentiment whipped up by some posters, and the atmosphere encountered at games.

I was at Millwall. The game was a scrappy one. We could have won 2-0, quite easily. That we weren''t awarding that penalty was criminal. And it would have left them one man down. The rub of the green went against us (just wait for people to shoot me down for saying that) and the team, especially Thorne, looked desperate to get something out of it. It just wasn''t to be.

The few times I have watched Norwich the same thing can be said. THEY ARE VERY LOW ON CONFIDENCE. In my opinion the way to help is to cut them a little slack, get of their backs and support. Why? Because it is abundantly clear that with confidence- they COULD walk this division. Fair enough to hold a negative opinion, but some level headedness would be good.

I wonder if the opnions on this board are indicative? The Norwich support on Tuesday was magnificent. Vocal, passionate and in no way negative. Those I sat near showed none of the vitriol you mention.

The crowd at Millwall were supporters, not sure everyone on here is!  

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[quote user="vicar in green and yellow"]

The crowd at Millwall were supporters, not sure everyone on here is!  

[/quote]

I think you''ve hit the nail on the head - there''s a BIG difference between ''supporters'' and ''fans''.

 

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i agree Vicar that the support at Millwall was good. Its not that we played particularly badly its just that if we''re not good enough to beat a side bottom of the division and without a home win it doesn''t bode well.

Thorne had several attempts on goal but they were all very soft and posed no threat.

Losing half your games is hardly good for morale and whilst they didn''t reach the depths of qpr and luton (or Watford or Wolves etc etc) they continue to fail to perform to potential.

Yes, we''ve had injuries, but most teams cope (Johnson at C Pal, Miller at Wolves etc) but we''ve kept Huckerby, Ashton & Green for most games and the likes of MCKenzie and Marney were disappointing when they did play. Colin and Jarrett were woeful. Need I say more...

The mood on the way home on the trains was something different!

 

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Andrew, I try to be objective that''s why I do not write personal criticisms of the manager only factual criticisms. I personally feel that there is no place for calling the man who has given so much to us "worthless" and such like.

I would however add, that I am being objective in saying that I have seen enough and it''s time for a change. I believe that I am in the majority when I say that I am not someone who over-exaggerates, and I would love to have seen Worthy pull us out of the mess. The thing is for me he''s had his chances, over the past 6 games we are the worst club in the division. That is not someone making a difference, or turning us around. That is something that is going the opposite direction.

The other point I would like to make is that relegation is realistic (form guide) and not something that people are using to spark fears. Relegation could cost up to £20m if you include our sudden need to sell players on the cheap, revenue streams, unpaid debt repayments etc. That''s without even mentioning our need to get to the Prem before our parachutes run out.

Can I suggest Andrew that anyone who would want to risk that so we don''t have to pay off contracts wouldn''t be ambitious or prudent. In fact, they probably wouldn''t be objective either.

As for your line on where are we going to get the players from, we don''t need to. We may not have the squad that people thought we had, but we have probably the highest wage bill in the league. We certainly have players that other teams in the division would give their right arm for.

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[quote user="ROSSI 46"]

Andrew, I try to be objective that''s why I do not write personal criticisms of the manager only factual criticisms. I personally feel that there is no place for calling the man who has given so much to us "worthless" and such like.

I would however add, that I am being objective in saying that I have seen enough and it''s time for a change. I believe that I am in the majority when I say that I am not someone who over-exaggerates, and I would love to have seen Worthy pull us out of the mess. The thing is for me he''s had his chances, over the past 6 games we are the worst club in the division. That is not someone making a difference, or turning us around. That is something that is going the opposite direction.

The other point I would like to make is that relegation is realistic (form guide) and not something that people are using to spark fears. Relegation could cost up to £20m if you include our sudden need to sell players on the cheap, revenue streams, unpaid debt repayments etc. That''s without even mentioning our need to get to the Prem before our parachutes run out.

Can I suggest Andrew that anyone who would want to risk that so we don''t have to pay off contracts wouldn''t be ambitious or prudent. In fact, they probably wouldn''t be objective either.

As for your line on where are we going to get the players from, we don''t need to. We may not have the squad that people thought we had, but we have probably the highest wage bill in the league. We certainly have players that other teams in the division would give their right arm for.

[/quote]

Thank you for your response, Rossi. This is the sort of post that keeps me reading this forum. However, obviously, I disagree, at least in part.

Although there are some excellent players at Norwich at the moment - more than at the start of last season I reckon - the midfield has turned into a nightmare, Safri shows no sign of regaining 100% fitness anytme soon, JJ hasn''t worked out, Marney is injured & Hughes cannot hold central midfield together on his own. Bringing in Etuhu & Robinson is about as much as could be done; at least give them a chance.

But when Davenport goes ...

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I really appreciate your response, and you are right - there''s nothing wrong with sensible debate. I agree with you re: davenport. It''s a shame we are not where we should be (top 6) otherwise the lad may have found a new home!

Also agree with your point re Etuhu and Robinson. My problem with this is that if at the start of the season the boss said we had a stronger squad then when we got promoted. Captain Clapper has also re-iterated the same, but instead chose to say we have the best squad in the league. It''s quite well known that Dutch players do have trouble adapting to two games a week and that was always going to be an issue with Colin. He would have made a great No 2 to Edworthy. (Another rogue decision)

To win games you need to score and to do that you need service.Etuhu and Robinson are not likely to provide that service so we may scape together a few more draws rather than defeats, but 3 points is where we need to be.

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