How many of Worthington's signings have been "successes"?

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Here is a list of every signing Worthington has made since he has been in charge (in the order they signed).  How many worked out?

1. Zema Abbey- December 2000. £300,000
2. Alex Notman- December 2000.  £250,000
3. Danny Bloomfield- January 2001.  Free
4. Adam Drury- March 2001.  £500,000
5. Gary Holt- March 2001.  £100,000
6. Paul Peschisolido- March 2001.  Loan
7. Paul Chichton- June 2001.  £150,000
8. Clint Easton- June 2001.  £100,000
9. Mark Rivers- June 2001.  £500,000
10. Neil Emblen- July 2001.  £500,000
11. Marc Libbra- August 2001.  Free
12. David Nielsen- December 2001.  Loan then £200,000
13. Andy Roberts- Janurary 2002- Loan
14. Trevor Benjamin- February 2002.  Loan
15. Nicky Southall- September 2002.  Loan
16. Keith Briggs- January 2003.  £65,000
17. David Healy- February 2003.  Loan
18. Leigh Bromby- February 2003.  Loan
19. Jim Brennan- July 2003.  Free
20. Damien Francis- July 2003.  £260,000
21. Marc Edworthy- August 2003.  Free
22. Elvis Hammons- August 2003.  Loan
23. Peter Crouch- Septmeber 2003.  Loan
24. Kevin Harper- September 2003.  Loan
25. Darren Huckerby- September 2003.  Loan then £750,000
26. Leon McKenzie- December 2003.  £350,000
27. Mathias Svensson- December 2003.  £75,000
28. Kevin Cooper- March 2004.  Loan
29. David Bentley- June 2004.  Loan
30. Paul Gallacher- June 2004.  Free
31. Youssef Safri- June 2004.  £500,000
32. Thomas Helveg- July 2004.  Free
33. Simon Charlton- July 2004.  £250,000
34. Darren Ward- August 2004.  £250,000
35. Gary Doherty- August 2004.  £600,000
36. Mathias Jonson- August 2004.  £600,000
37. Dean Ashton- January 2005.  £3M
38. Graham Stuart- January 2005.  Free
39. Mattieu Louis Jean- June 2005.  Part ex (free)
40. Jason Jarrett- June 2005.  Free
41. Jurgen Colin- July 2005.  £263,000
42. Andy Hughes- July 2005.  £500,000
43. Peter Thorne- July 2005.  Free
44. Dean Marney- August 2005.  Loan
45. Kevin Lisbie- September 2005.  Loan
46. Calum Davenport- Septmber 2005.  Loan
47. Dickson Etuhu- November 2005.  Loan
48. David Wright- November 2005.  Loan
49. Carl Robinson- November 2005.  Loan (presumably)

Ok.  So 5 years, almost half a century of players, 19 loan players and a stonking £9,613,000 (of course all excluding wages) how many have been "successes".  I''ve highlighted the one''s I think have been. 

Oh dear god!  11 out of 49 players!  Ok, it''s hard to judge the recent loanees and players such as Marney and Notman are hard to judge because of injuries.  However, (IMAO) after 5 years and almost £10M Worthington has only generated a team full of good players.  Imagine if we had had a manager who knew how to spend to money.  Where would we be now?

[Temp the Revelator 0]

1. Zema Abbey- December 2000. £300,000

2. Alex Notman- December 2000.  £250,000

3. Danny Bloomfield- January 2001.  Free

4. Adam Drury- March 2001.  £500,000

5. Gary Holt- March 2001.  £100,000

6. Paul Peschisolido- March 2001.  Loan

7. Paul Chichton- June 2001.  £150,000

8. Clint Easton- June 2001.  £100,000

9. Mark Rivers- June 2001.  £500,000

10. Neil Emblen- July 2001.  £500,000

11. Marc Libbra- August 2001.  Free

12. David Nielsen- December 2001.  Loan then £200,000

13. Andy Roberts- Janurary 2002- Loan

14. Trevor Benjamin- February 2002.  Loan

15. Nicky Southall- September 2002.  Loan

16. Keith Briggs- January 2003.  £65,000

17. David Healy- February 2003.  Loan

18. Leigh Bromby- February 2003.  Loan

19. Jim Brennan- July 2003.  Free

20. Damien Francis- July 2003.  £260,000

21. Marc Edworthy- August 2003.  Free

22. Elvis Hammons- August 2003.  Loan

23. Peter Crouch- Septmeber 2003.  Loan

24. Kevin Harper- September 2003.  Loan

25. Darren Huckerby- September 2003.  Loan then £750,000

26. Leon McKenzie- December 2003.  £350,000

27. Mathias Svensson- December 2003.  £75,000

28. Kevin Cooper- March 2004.  Loan

29. David Bentley- June 2004.  Loan

30. Paul Gallacher- June 2004.  Free

31. Youssef Safri- June 2004.  £500,000

32. Thomas Helveg- July 2004.  Free

33. Simon Charlton- July 2004.  £250,000

34. Darren Ward- August 2004.  £250,000

35. Gary Doherty- August 2004.  £600,000

36. Mathias Jonson- August 2004.  £600,000

37. Dean Ashton- January 2005.  £3M

38. Graham Stuart- January 2005.  Free

39. Mattieu Louis Jean- June 2005.  Part ex (free)

40. Jason Jarrett- June 2005.  Free

41. Jurgen Colin- July 2005.  £263,000

42. Andy Hughes- July 2005.  £500,000

43. Peter Thorne- July 2005.  Free

44. Dean Marney- August 2005.  Loan

45. Kevin Lisbie- September 2005.  Loan

46. Calum Davenport- Septmber 2005.  Loan

47. Dickson Etuhu- November 2005.  Loan

48. David Wright- November 2005.  Loan

49. Carl Robinson- November 2005.  Loan (presumably)

There you go DD, I''ve updated it with my opinion - I agree with all the ones you said, plus I have added some - even so, it does make pretty depressing reading, doesn''t it?

[Mook 0]

I think you''ve been harsh on a few players there, DD.

Doherty is a success, Svensson was definitely a success, goalkeepers were always going to be backups and Rivers, Easton and Nielsen all contributed to an excellent play-off season. Also he made a lot out of our "reserves" - Kenton, Malky, McVeigh etc.

But all in all you are correct. 10m is a lot of money.

Here''s another one for you - how many of them IMPROVED after coming to Norwich?

[BedsCanary 0]

Rivers, Libbra and Nielsen all did their part and Svennson''s goals came in more than handy in our promotion season. Yes, they''ve come and gone but who knows where we''d be without these players?

Bit harsh on Thorne, Etuhu and Wright, too - none of which have had chance to "prove" themselves just yet.

Apart from that I agree

[Paul Aldrich 0]

And even more importantly how many are doing better since they LEFT Norwich -  Peschisolido scored a few for Sheff Utd/Derby, Rivers scored one or two for Crewe, Crouch now playing in the Prem/Champions League, Bentley playing in the Prem for Blackburn, Healy scored one or two for Leeds, Francis playing for Wigan in the Prem and Bromby looks to be on the way to the Prem with Sheff Utd.

[nobbyg 0]

Whilst I can''t and won''t argue with the points you make I think you are being harsh.

Firstly on some of the individual cases. 

Safri is a success but Doherty isn''t - for the same money.
Kevin Cooper - on loan played every game in our unbeaten run on the way to the title.  Would have bought him but for the price.
Matty Svensson - for £75k helping us to promotion and leaving to return to his homeland for a fee.
Easton and Libbra - for a combined £100k helping us to the play-off final where we earnt a lot more than £100k.

 

Secondly not really Worthy''s fault.

Emblen
Abbey
Notman
Ward - has only been on the pitch twice.
Gallacher - has never been on the pitch. 
Louis-Jean - only ben on the pitch twice.

 

Thirdly the loans - in some cases they were never meant to be successes. They were there to try and do a job in the time of need i.e. to allow us to actually get a team out.  We were never in the market to be them.

Bromby
Hammond
Lisbie
Healy
Southall
Benjamin
Roberts

 

Fourthly on paper who argued against the following players at the time... who subsequently failed to deliver or live up to their CV''s.

Helveg - Denmark Captain
Jonsson - International just scored in Euro 2004
Bentley - U21 the new Bergkamp
Gallacher - International GK on a free
Thorne - on a free, proven record 
Brennan - on a free proven championship player
Charlton - 400 games in the top flight for £250K
Rivers - 60 goals in the championship, could play wide right.

 

Lastly

Really is harsh to include Wright, Dickson and Robinson on the list. And Marney who has more assists than any other player this season.
Hughes - Holt wasn''t a success in his first 3 months here. In fact he was awful.  Only Emblens injury that gave him a place in middle.

[charlies dad 0]

Amid the wreckage of this season, one bright spot has been the consistent performance level of Doherty. Enough, i think to earn him a bold type rating of success, and i feel sure, a player of the season award.   

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

dd this is well researched. Do you by any chance have a list of players who played under Worthington who he didn''t bring in and were a success? I know he cleared out some real deadwood when he first came in but what about the likes of McKay and McVeigh?

[kennyfoggo 0]

I thought the other Irish blarney merchant bought Notman

[Tumbleweed 106]

So that''s around 50 players in exactly 5 years: 10 a year. Add the youth players who are privileged to sit on the bench before being loaned out and sold and you must get to 60 new faces.

12 new faces a year. And we wonder why we can''t play as a team. they must wonder who is going to turn up next- maybe Lord Lucan will pop up at right wing?

And Mook- I suspect the answer to your question is distressingly few.

[Syteanric 1]

be interesting to see how many players worthy has offloaded in this time. and indeed how much for? he never seems to want to negotiate a fee for anyone.

 i remember that we sold Adrian Forbes for £95,000 to luton and he was the most we recived for a player in years under worthy! certainly until last season

jas :)

[Old Boy 0]

Pointless and (intentionally) misleading to include those players who haven''t been able to play because of injury, or haven''t been here long enough, so:

1. Zema Abbey- December 2000. £300,000

2. Danny Bloomfield- January 2001.  Free

3. Adam Drury- March 2001.  £500,000

4. Gary Holt- March 2001.  £100,000

5. Paul Peschisolido- March 2001.  Loan

6. Paul Crichton- June 2001.  £150,000

7. Clint Easton- June 2001.  £100,000

8. Mark Rivers- June 2001.  £500,000

9. Neil Emblen- July 2001.  £500,000

10. Marc Libbra- August 2001.  Free

11. David Nielsen- December 2001.  Loan then £200,000

12. Andy Roberts- Janurary 2002- Loan

13. Trevor Benjamin- February 2002.  Loan

14. Nicky Southall- September 2002.  Loan

15. Keith Briggs- January 2003.  £65,000

16. David Healy- February 2003.  Loan

17. Leigh Bromby- February 2003.  Loan

18. Jim Brennan- July 2003.  Free

19. Damien Francis- July 2003.  £260,000

20. Marc Edworthy- August 2003.  Free

21. Elvis Hammond- August 2003.  Loan

22. Peter Crouch- Septmeber 2003.  Loan

23. Kevin Harper- September 2003.  Loan

24. Darren Huckerby- September 2003.  Loan then £750,000

25. Leon McKenzie- December 2003.  £350,000

26. Mathias Svensson- December 2003.  £75,000

27. Kevin Cooper- March 2004.  Loan

28. David Bentley- June 2004.  Loan  

29. Youssef Safri- June 2004.  £500,000

30. Thomas Helveg- July 2004.  Free

31. Simon Charlton- July 2004.  £250,000

32. Gary Doherty- August 2004.  £600,000

33. Mathias Jonson- August 2004.  £600,000

34. Dean Ashton- January 2005.  £3M

35. Graham Stuart- January 2005.  Free

36. Jason Jarrett- June 2005.  Free

37. Jurgen Colin- July 2005.  £263,000

38. Andy Hughes- July 2005.  £500,000

39. Dean Marney- August 2005.  Loan

40. Kevin Lisbie- September 2005.  Loan

41. Calum Davenport- September 2005.  Loan

Interesting to see the very same worms who were moaning that we MUST SIGN MORE PLAYERS now turning, and complaining that we''ve signed too many. About sums them up. Also interesting that with all these "failures" we escaped the relegation that was looming when NW took over, made the play-offs, and then won the Championship.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Errm I think you''re missing the point old boy.  The point was to illustrate just how BADLY Worthington has done in the transfer market.  Yes I want a bigger squad.  However, I want a squad of decent players that improve the team.  Even with your revised list you only have 19 out of 41 players who were ''successes''.  Still pretty damn pathetic from my point of view.  The only reason we won the Championship was because we signed an awesome player in Hucks, had the luck of the Irish and had little or no injuries

[Maverick 0]

You''re all being severely harsh on Rivers.

He played an instrumental part in the play off season and the following season too.Then he got injured after a few games of the championship winning season and at that point he was top scorer.Once he was fit again Hucks et al had arrived and the bar had moved upwards.

Worthy deemed him to be surplus to requirements for the Prem and he was right to do so but I still think we got our money''s worth from him.I know he was an infuriating inconsistent winger but we have one of them now don''t we ? Rivers was definitely better at tracking back than our current version....

[Old Boy 0]

Your point is not missable - it''s obvious what you''re trying to do from the way you fiddled your initial list.. 19 out of 41 is "pretty damn pathetic" is it? It may be, but you should have a look at our rivals to get something to judge it by. You criticise NW for signing rubbish players, then say that we only won promotion because he made a brilliant signing. You say we should be leading the division despite our injury problems this season, then say we won promotion because we had next to no injuries. Despite the current hysteria, which you''ve really bought into having been the one IIRC to coin the silly Keep The Faith tag, we are in mid-table with no realistic threat of relegation, we have a squad that is without doubt better than it was a couple of years ago, and we don''t need half-baked rabble-rousing crap like this thread. What we need (I say again) is a reasoned look at the problems within the Club - the failure to improve certain aspects in line with the growth and the stated ambitions of the club.

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

Fiddled my initial list??  How can a comprehensive list of every signing the man has ever made have been ''fiddled''?

I think you''re getting a bit confused old boy.  Not once have I said we would be leading the division if it wasn''t for our injuries.  I don''t think the squad we have is good enough.  Even if all our players we''re fit (which incidently is really only Leon and Marney whom we''re missing) we''d still be where we are now due to an inept manager.

You say that we''re in mid table with ''no real thread of relegation''.  Is that how far we''ve come on since we first got promoted?  Now pleased that we might not get relegated to the third tier of English football.  Give me a break.  (By the by; we have a very realistic chance of getting relegated at the moment.  Certainly a hell of a lot better chance than we have of getting promoted).

We don''t need "half-baked rabble-rousing crap like this" do we?  And why is that?  Because the bloody thruth hurts that''s why. 

We need a "reasoned look at the problems within the club"?  I totally agree.  Start with the management.  It''s people like you old boy who the club probably rolled out at the AGM.  You make my blood boil.  You have your head in the sand with the current plight of the club and when you finally pull it out you''ll realise we''re the next Nottm Forest, not the next Charlton.  Our club is in turmoil for the first team in half a decade.  Face facts.  Worthington got us up.  Fair play to him for that.  But we have endured a load of crap in the last 18 months and it is entirely down to him.  His inept signings and inept management style.  The sooner people like you realise this the better 

[Ken Aries 0]

I''ve looked at your list and tried to assess those Worthy signings with a less jaundiced eye. I just looked at those players that commanded a transfer fee - fair I think, because after all, what do you really expect for nothing? Anyway, of the 22 who cost City a transfer fee, I think that most people would agree that at least 13 did a good job for a while, which represents an over 50% success rate in Worthy''s signings. Within that tally of 13 of which I said some served a purpose, but then began to lose form, you will find 9 who everybody would agree are, or were, unqualified successes. I think you''ll find few managers throughout the Football League with a better record than that. Apologies for not naming the players that my figures represent - I just couldn''t be bothered with all that typing!

[DumbleDelia is Magic 0]

But Stephen, "frees" aren''t free.  Firstly, if we get a player on a free we give them a signing on fee.  I''d hate to think what a Jarrett''s was.  However, I''d be willing to bet it was more than £65,000 we paid for Briggs.  Add onto this wages, bonuses etc and each player costs a fair chunk

[Mook 0]

Dad, from someone that accused me of being "polyanna" about NCFC, now hark at you!

"Mid-table with no real threat of relegation"???? What a load of rubbish. How far off the relegation zone are we, having played EVERY team in the division once? What does that make you think if we have to play them all again? This time we''ll win them all?

You need to be very careful with the "too good to go down" mentality. I watched a bunch of Hammers do that at close proximity and it''s not pretty, plus Leeds fans, and Sheff Wed too.

Rabble rousing is not what this is about, at least mostly. It''s an honest (in DD''s opinion) assessment of what Nigel has brought to the club, albeit a slightly biased one in favour of the negative (in my opinion).

But DD has a point - we''ve had 50 players, and with your philosophy of "buy the best and it will last", surely you can''t think that all the "stop-gap" measures we''ve had over the years have been good for the club, manager or style of football we play? Someone needs to point out these failings, and what DD has done is given a stark reminder of how many players we''ve had over the years, and how much money has been spent. Suddenly all of Warnock''s remarks about how much Norwich spent seem a bit more reasonable...

[rieg77 0]

It all depends how you measure success.

For instance, you say that Rivers was not a success. I think he was very successful before it went pear shaped between him and the club.

It also depends why they were bougnt.Brennan contributes as a good squad player so if thats why he was bought then he''s been successful

Totally disagree with you on

Rivers

Brennan

Svensson

Cooper

Doherty

Hughes

[Mello Yello 2,140]

There''s only ever been one successful signing by Worthy, and that is his signing on the dotted line of his ''Wahaaay!''.........."lucrative" contract, that currently has this Club and "Board" - gripped tightly around the ''horlicks!''

KEEP THE FILTH and ON THE FALL CITY! ;~(

 

[Old Boy 0]

Of course you fiddled your inital list DD: you start by using a metric - "success" - that''s totally subjective (and of course your assessment is slanted in the way that suits your argument), you included players with long-term injuries who hardly played a match, players who only arrived recently, players who came on a month''s loan whom you probably never saw, players on loan who were here as cover, and players who were bought as cover and have never been involved. Strip those out and look at the list again, and you''ll see that, as NW has had more money available to buy quality, the proportion of successes has increased. He''s certainly signed quite a few clunkers (most of whom were warmly greeted by you and the other snipers), but then every manager does that. Have you done that comparison with another club yet, on a cost/benefit basis, showing what it''s achieved for what it''s spent? Until you do that, your numbers are meaningless, just designed to undermine, Mr Keep The Faith. And in case you''ve forgotten, what this Club''s achieved in the past five years is a Play-off final, a Championship, a year in the Premiership, a much healthier financial position, and a greatly increased attendance. If you''re talking in pure financial terms, NW''s actually done pretty well.

And Mook - we won''t be relegated. By you own argument, if the second legs of our matches all go the same way as the first legs, and theirs do as well, we''ll end up in our current position. But we won''t go down mainly because we''re playing decent football MOST OF THE TIME. Not ALL OF THE TIME, not even ENOUGH OF THE TIME for me, but, in terms of minutes MOST OF THE TIME. You know, Mook, how strongly I feel about the coaching issue, about how it should add value to players, and at Norwich it doesn''t, but, really, let''s just look at the facts. We are mid-table in the Championship, and we won''t be relegated UNLESS - as I said before - the Club panics like a number of posters on here are doing.

[We need a Manager 0]

Playing decent football ? jesus what planet are you on . As for Nigels signings  laughable is the best word to describe them , and  even a good one like Ashton he can ruin in 6 months . Ashton playing for Crewe 20 goals at xmas Ashton playing  for Worthys hoofers probably wont have 20 attempts by xmas this year . Thorne regular goalscorer for Cardiff cannot get 1 for Norwich , you see the pattern ? Worthy can take good players and make them bad , hell i bet he could get Chelsea relegated given the chance.

[Mook 0]

Ok pops, fair enough. But I think you are being a little .... understanding towards Mr Worthington and our signature-happy board.

We have spent a lot of money that has gone utterly unrecouped, because we are both buying the wrong players and buying players for them to be left on the bench or badly coached. I am not saying that other clubs don''t buy badly, but this is (and here''s the killer line) YOUR money. Your shares, your season ticket, your shares (second time round), your purchasing of the clubs merchandise etc etc. And we all know, a lot of this wastage could be avoided through research and scouting.

It is, whether you like it or not, and indictment on the manager, his scouts and the board for shelling out whatever is asked of them without seeming to do their research - ie 1m (plus wages) for Mat Jonson who is the only right winger I''ve ever seen that can''t cross, pass, tackle, shoot or dribble. I mean, didn''t they watch the videos??

What have the Romans ever done for us? Well apart from the play-offs, the aquaducts and the championship, not much. We blew the prem badly, and the money we have earned will not last forever (just ask a Leeds/Ipsw*ch fan). If more gets wasted this way, and no improvement is seen, we could be in stasis for a long time to come. I''m not saying this statistic means we should sack Nigel, but someone should be keeping tabs on his spending and looking over his shoulder. If your employees made this many mistakes with other people''s money, you''d check their work too.

[I am a Banana (All Grown Up) 0]

r u nut wat bout andy hughes he is the new francis

[Old Boy 0]

[quote user="premier1"]Playing decent football ? jesus what planet are you on . As for Nigels signings  laughable is the best word to describe them , and  even a good one like Ashton he can ruin in 6 months . Ashton playing for Crewe 20 goals at xmas Ashton playing  for Worthys hoofers probably wont have 20 attempts by xmas this year . Thorne regular goalscorer for Cardiff cannot get 1 for Norwich , you see the pattern ? Worthy can take good players and make them bad , hell i bet he could get Chelsea relegated given the chance.[/quote]

What was Thorne''s strike rate for Cardiff, in goals per minute played, and how many minutes has Thorne played for us? Do you actually know who Thorne is BTW, or did you just wander in out of the snow?

Ashton''s certainly not been short of goal attempts. If you''d seen any of our games this season, you''d know that. You ought to try it - you might enjoy football once you got to understand it.

More factoids.... Keep ''em coming.

[Rossi 0]

One thing it also does, is look at the awful lot of prudence and not a lot of ambition. Under £10m in 5 years. Heck we should have spent that last season when we were promoted. Then we would still be there and not here.