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Hull match thread

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To digress slightly, I was amused and frustrated in about equal measure to hear how quickly people in the crowd around me reverted to comments like "get it forward" and groaning when we had a prolonged period of keeping possession and even, gasp, passing backwards. How do they think we got to where we are? By reverting to lumping it forward or running blindly into trouble at the first setback? How did we score the winner against Millwall? By playing the way we have trained and we know now gets us results. In Farke we trust!

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57 minutes ago, king canary said:

Trybull wasn't bad necessarily, just that he's not a natural replacement for a player like Leitner. I could see an argument for Trybull over Vrancic if we'd been playing a team near the top of the table who would be taking the game to us but not sure he was the right choice for this match. 

If anything I think the way the game panned out kind of vindicated Farke's decision to start Trybull. Hull overloaded central areas and were only interested in breaking up and interrupting the play in the central positions. It was vital we had a combative midfield to try and gain some form of control in those conditions. Thought Trybull was generally decent although i'd have introduced Vrancic earlier personally.

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3 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

To digress slightly, I was amused and frustrated in about equal measure to hear how quickly people in the crowd around me reverted to comments like "get it forward" and groaning when we had a prolonged period of keeping possession and even, gasp, passing backwards. How do they think we got to where we are? By reverting to lumping it forward or running blindly into trouble at the first setback? How did we score the winner against Millwall? By playing the way we have trained and we know now gets us results. In Farke we trust!

It'll always happen. It'll only take a couple of losses for the same morons to shout from the rooftops about tippy-tappy football and complain that we don't get it forward like a McCarthy or Warnock side or something.

It's good to see though how much the players clearly believe in our playing style now; I don't think some of our fans shouting nonsense is ever likely to alter our style now.

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19 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If anything I think the way the game panned out kind of vindicated Farke's decision to start Trybull. Hull overloaded central areas and were only interested in breaking up and interrupting the play in the central positions. It was vital we had a combative midfield to try and gain some form of control in those conditions. Thought Trybull was generally decent although i'd have introduced Vrancic earlier personally.

Can't say I saw it that way- I thought the fact Hull pressed us called for someone who could move the ball quickly and effictively which isn't Trybull's strong point. He clearly wasn't being asked to play his usual defensive role based on the amount of times he popped up in the opposition box.

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Trybull did ok last night, his cramping after 70 mins only highlighted the effort he had put in up to that point. Emi Buendia was stand out performer for me, the little guy was everywhere, worked really hard in both O-fence and D-fence. Hull were clearly well drilled in the art of giving Teemu absolutely not a sniff, so credit to them for that. I agree that bringing Mario on a little earlier may have given him a better chance of settling into the game and finding his range in difficult conditions. I believe he is the man ( like Wes was) that can unlock these packed D-fences, but he cant be expected to pull a rabbit out of the hat in so little time.

This game will not live long in the memory, am i ok with four points from last six available, yes, it is on target with the 2 points per game average . Glad this game is out of the way, with no fresh injuries etc and injured squad members nearing fitness. 

And we're still top after tonight, whatever happens elsewhere.

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8 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Trybull did ok last night, his cramping after 70 mins only highlighted the effort he had put in up to that point. Emi Buendia was stand out performer for me, the little guy was everywhere, worked really hard in both O-fence and D-fence. Hull were clearly well drilled in the art of giving Teemu absolutely not a sniff, so credit to them for that. I agree that bringing Mario on a little earlier may have given him a better chance of settling into the game and finding his range in difficult conditions. I believe he is the man ( like Wes was) that can unlock these packed D-fences, but he cant be expected to pull a rabbit out of the hat in so little time.

This game will not live long in the memory, am i ok with four points from last six available, yes, it is on target with the 2 points per game average . Glad this game is out of the way, with no fresh injuries etc and injured squad members nearing fitness. 

And we're still top after tonight, whatever happens elsewhere.

I think my main overall takeaway from last night is it may be time for a bit of rotation as I felt in the second half we seemed quite leggy and lacking our usual dynamic movement off the ball.

Maybe give Vrancic, Cantwell and Rhodes starts at the weekend to add some fresh legs.

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20 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think my main overall takeaway from last night is it may be time for a bit of rotation as I felt in the second half we seemed quite leggy and lacking our usual dynamic movement off the ball.

Maybe give Vrancic, Cantwell and Rhodes starts at the weekend to add some fresh legs.

Can't disagree with that KC, the end of our winning run is an ideal time to rest a few that have been outstanding recently(its not broken , just needs a service) and give confidence boosting game time to other very able replacements. The season isnt half done yet.

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17 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think my main overall takeaway from last night is it may be time for a bit of rotation as I felt in the second half we seemed quite leggy and lacking our usual dynamic movement off the ball.

Maybe give Vrancic, Cantwell and Rhodes starts at the weekend to add some fresh legs.

I actually think we got stronger as the game wore on, Hull looked noticeably more tired. I don't recall thinking we looked 'leggy,' with the exception of possibly Pukki. 

I do agree that rotation may help improve the team though. Not sure I'd make more than two changes, but one change I would make for Saturday is Vrancic for Steiperman. I think we can afford a bit more creative flair at home to Rotherham, and Vrancic plays a brilliant through ball which could be key against a well organised and tight defensive unit. 

Other than that, Leitner come's back in if fit. 

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To be disappointed with only 4 points out of 6 from two away games in 4 days shows how far we've come.  It's obvious, but we missed Leitner and on another day, both Trybull's chances would have gone in and we'd be celebrating a good win.  The thing that stood out for me was how dominant we were again, Hull never really had a period of sustained pressure where you thought 'they're going to score soon'.

I think Stiepermann is a very important player in the formation we have.  I think we'll need him for the physical challenges of Rotherham and Bolton.

 

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“To digress slightly, I was amused and frustrated in about equal measure to hear how quickly people in the crowd around me reverted to comments like "get it forward" and groaning when we had a prolonged period of keeping possession and even, gasp, passing backwards.”

 

I get this every home game, regardless of the score or how well we’re playing 

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5 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

“To digress slightly, I was amused and frustrated in about equal measure to hear how quickly people in the crowd around me reverted to comments like "get it forward" and groaning when we had a prolonged period of keeping possession and even, gasp, passing backwards.”

 

I get this every home game, regardless of the score or how well we’re playing 

You should try coaching Youth teams,  young players trying to learn how to play at a higher standard , being subjected to groans (and far worse) from unqualified spectators. I have seen 14 yr old players derided for playing the ball across the back while the midfield resets itself to receive a forward pass.

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1 hour ago, Il Pirata said:

I actually think we got stronger as the game wore on, Hull looked noticeably more tired. I don't recall thinking we looked 'leggy,' with the exception of possibly Pukki. 

I do agree that rotation may help improve the team though. Not sure I'd make more than two changes, but one change I would make for Saturday is Vrancic for Steiperman. I think we can afford a bit more creative flair at home to Rotherham, and Vrancic plays a brilliant through ball which could be key against a well organised and tight defensive unit. 

Other than that, Leitner come's back in if fit. 

I think it was more a mental fatigue- lots of passes half a yard off, especially in the final third which isn't what we've seen the last few weeks. 

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I agree Vrancic should come in on Saturday, but only if Leitner is still injured as wouldn’t take Stiepermann out, his physicality and awkward looking skill on the ball still warrants its place.

I’d argue Hernandez is more of a threat than Cantwell and with Buendia and Vrancic/Leitner on the pitch, the pace of Onel is more of an asset than the skill and passing of Cantwell.

And Rhodes in for who? Madness to drop Pukki. Yes Hull did a good job on him last night but his goal return speaks for itself and he has to play.

2 hours ago, king canary said:

I think my main overall takeaway from last night is it may be time for a bit of rotation as I felt in the second half we seemed quite leggy and lacking our usual dynamic movement off the ball.

Maybe give Vrancic, Cantwell and Rhodes starts at the weekend to add some fresh legs.

 

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30 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

I agree Vrancic should come in on Saturday, but only if Leitner is still injured as wouldn’t take Stiepermann out, his physicality and awkward looking skill on the ball still warrants its place.

I’d argue Hernandez is more of a threat than Cantwell and with Buendia and Vrancic/Leitner on the pitch, the pace of Onel is more of an asset than the skill and passing of Cantwell.

And Rhodes in for who? Madness to drop Pukki. Yes Hull did a good job on him last night but his goal return speaks for itself and he has to play.

 

I'm not saying we have to make those changes, just they seem the most obvious fresh legs to bring in. I know Pukki is in fine form but I'm not sure a game on the bench would do him any harm.

Also I'd expect Rotherham to sit deep and pack the penalty box, asking us to  break them down. In those sort of situations a player who can pick a pass like Cantwell may provide more than a player who is more reliant on pace and having space to run in like Hernandez.

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not saying we have to make those changes, just they seem the most obvious fresh legs to bring in. I know Pukki is in fine form but I'm not sure a game on the bench would do him any harm.

Also I'd expect Rotherham to sit deep and pack the penalty box, asking us to  break them down. In those sort of situations a player who can pick a pass like Cantwell may provide more than a player who is more reliant on pace and having space to run in like Hernandez.

This is my take on it, I think they're both excellent but IMO Hernandez is better in a more open game whereas Cantwell has that ability (still developing but already impressive) to create those intricate moves on the edge of the box.  I rate Cantwell as highly as Buendia.

 

It will be interesting to see the approach Rotherham take and whether they literally sit back and park the bus - if so, I think we're much better placed to handle this than we were 15 games ago.

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Also important remember between Saturday and New Years day we've got 7 matches- so rotating against Rotherham may keep players fresher for challenges like Forest and Derby later in the month.

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18 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm not saying we have to make those changes, just they seem the most obvious fresh legs to bring in. I know Pukki is in fine form but I'm not sure a game on the bench would do him any harm.

Also I'd expect Rotherham to sit deep and pack the penalty box, asking us to  break them down. In those sort of situations a player who can pick a pass like Cantwell may provide more than a player who is more reliant on pace and having space to run in like Hernandez.

Fair enough and good point about Cantwell and the way Rotherham will play. They’d be delighted with a draw much like Hull were last night. Now teams are aware of how we play we will have to be used to more defensive tactics than we were seeing earlier in the season when teams let us play a bit more. 

I think last night showed some good signs that we can be successful against this as we created some good opportunities and looked comfortable and composed throughout.

The next couple of games are very important as they will be similar tests to Hull and to stay top we need to find a way of breaking them down and taking our chances, the one thing we failed to do last night.

Edited by Fiery Zac

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5 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Make that two. I thought he did well, the save he brouht out of Marshall was top drawer to stop him scoring after he received the ball almost behind him and turned an shot in one movement. If that or his header, which missed by a whisker, had gone in, he would have been seen as the matchwinner.  Obviously needs match time, but last night he got that and if picked in the next match, he will be better for it.

In general I agree he had a pretty decent game but that header was a shocker - made worse by the fact that I was so sure he couldn't miss that I was already celebrating like an idiot in the rain as the ball flew into the crowd!

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17 hours ago, Chelm Canary said:

That ref certainly liked to let the game run. He wasn't gonna be conned. 

Also, he seemed to take the conditions into account, which I think was a factor in Aarons escaping a yellow card.

More generally, all the referees in the games I've seen since the international break, seem to be taking a more tolerant view of physicality (both in the Championship and the EPL). I wonder if they have had some new guidelines issued at referees' get togethers during the break. Anybody else noticed it?

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I thought Tettey was outstanding last night, won the ball back, kept possession and looked very assured, however and strangely, I think he is one of the reasons we didn't get three points.

From half time to 80 minutes he was very one paced and seem content with a point.

I have a lot of love for the young boy Aarons, he looks superb.

Likewise Emi, he looked a little bit special in the first half, but Hull soon grabbed hold of him (fairly?) in the second half.

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2 hours ago, ron obvious said:

 

Having seen the (paltry) highlights we didn't look too shabby. I would guess a 2-1 win would've been about fair.

 

Nah. I think a draw was the fair result tbf. Aside from the Trybull header and a speculative first half lomg ranger, we didnt really threaten.

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6 hours ago, king canary said:

Can't say I saw it that way- I thought the fact Hull pressed us called for someone who could move the ball quickly and effictively which isn't Trybull's strong point. He clearly wasn't being asked to play his usual defensive role based on the amount of times he popped up in the opposition box.

Seemed to me he simply took on Leitner's usual role, giving him the same degree of freedom. The evolution of the Leitner/Tettey midfield pairing this season is allowing Tettey more freedom, requiring the other in the pair to be watchful and defensively reactive to Tettey's movement. I think this is probably why Farke preferred Trybull over Vrancic last night. I too thought Trybull played well, the missed header apart; he can't, though, be expected to fully replicate Leitner's sometimes mesmerising combination play.

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Nah. I think a draw was the fair result tbf. Aside from the Trybull header and a speculative first half lomg ranger, we didnt really threaten.

The last pass was always the worst one I'm afraid. I think some tried to play football as if it were a dry pitch. As much as I enjoyed Buendia's performance last night, I thought he was the most guilty of trying deft touches and flicks that didn't carry. Sometimes just the old fashioned side foot pass is the most effective.

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2 hours ago, westcoastcanary said:

Seemed to me he simply took on Leitner's usual role, giving him the same degree of freedom. The evolution of the Leitner/Tettey midfield pairing this season is allowing Tettey more freedom, requiring the other in the pair to be watchful and defensively reactive to Tettey's movement. I think this is probably why Farke preferred Trybull over Vrancic last night. I too thought Trybull played well, the missed header apart; he can't, though, be expected to fully replicate Leitner's sometimes mesmerising combination play.

Definitely wasn’t doing the Leitner role. Didn’t come deep for the ball like Mo does, to the extent Klose and Krul looked like they didn’t know what to do in the early stages. It was more of the passing endlessly at the back of last season than the patient attack minded moves of this. It did improve as the game went on but Trybull wasn’t doing the Leitner role, deliberate or not.

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11 hours ago, Fiery Zac said:

Definitely wasn’t doing the Leitner role. Didn’t come deep for the ball like Mo does, to the extent Klose and Krul looked like they didn’t know what to do in the early stages. It was more of the passing endlessly at the back of last season than the patient attack minded moves of this. It did improve as the game went on but Trybull wasn’t doing the Leitner role, deliberate or not.

I think he may have been asked to try too but doesn't have the range. Not his fault mind.

Of course if he scores that header in a 1-0 win we're all hailing how a bold choice paid off.

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11 hours ago, Fiery Zac said:

Definitely wasn’t doing the Leitner role. Didn’t come deep for the ball like Mo does, to the extent Klose and Krul looked like they didn’t know what to do in the early stages. It was more of the passing endlessly at the back of last season than the patient attack minded moves of this. It did improve as the game went on but Trybull wasn’t doing the Leitner role, deliberate or not.

That was more to do with Hull setting out specifically to stop our build up play from the back. The folly of trying to do it against a side pressing so high and with such energy was well-illustrated by Hernandez' goal against Swansea on Saturday. Nigel Adkins had done his homework and in consequence Tettey, the other candidate to take over the role in Leitner's absence, was similarly prevented from doing so. Hull's high press tactic posed a problem not just for Klose and Krul, but the entire midfield as well; we only really broke free of it much later in the game when Hull's energy levels dropped. We'll be facing this same challenge more and more often now, even with Leitner back in the team. 

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Haven’t seen any highlights and didn’t have a TV view but it was noticeable how much higher up the pitch Trybull was than Leitner would be, particularly from goal kicks. Yes Hull pressed high but so have many teams this season, and Mo has still come deep to take the ball from Krul. I’m not saying the role Trybull was playing was wrong (it almost resulted in him scoring), just I think the way we play is so much more effective with Leitner. We did improve as the game went on but that was more to do with Hull tiring as you said and standing off us more (plus Vrancic coming on).

I guess we’ll see once Mo returns and we come up against the same tactics from the opposition as Hull. I just pray he’s back for the weekend as we’re much more likely to break a team down with him than without.

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