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pete

Another Krul Clanger

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I remember Gunn getting beaten at his near post at home last season (against Cardiff perhaps?), and several times he got beaten in the air in the box when he really shouldn't have been. Ruddy was dreadful for us for his first few months, and still had his share of big errors in the following months.

All goalkeepers make mistakes, and I don't think that Krul's recent error was as poor a mistake as people are making out. Surely we should be celebrating our current form and "togetherness" as a squad rather than over emphasising a fairly inconsequential error, compounded by a total lack of defence from our defence? 

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3 minutes ago, Ian said:

I remember Gunn getting beaten at his near post at home last season (against Cardiff perhaps?), and several times he got beaten in the air in the box when he really shouldn't have been. Ruddy was dreadful for us for his first few months, and still had his share of big errors in the following months.

All goalkeepers make mistakes, and I don't think that Krul's recent error was as poor a mistake as people are making out. Surely we should be celebrating our current form and "togetherness" as a squad rather than over emphasising a fairly inconsequential error, compounded by a total lack of defence from our defence? 

Pretty much agree with all of that Ian, game by game Krul improves. 10 games or so ago the moaning bastids on here didn't give him much attention, of course now with a dearth of negative fodder, seizing on one perceived goalkeeping error feeds there need to criticise something.

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I had a look at some stats yesterday. Krul has kept 6 clean sheets this season. The people above him have all kept 7, with the exeption of one player in Randolph at M'boro, who has kept 11.

Again... This Krul bashing seems a bit stupid when you look at the stats. Personal opinions accepted, of course. I just think they're pretty short-sighted for the most part.

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16 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

I had a look at some stats yesterday. Krul has kept 6 clean sheets this season. The people above him have all kept 7, with the exeption of one player in Randolph at M'boro, who has kept 11.

Again... This Krul bashing seems a bit stupid when you look at the stats. Personal opinions accepted, of course. I just think they're pretty short-sighted for the most part.

It is ironic that you accuse people of being short sighted and not looking at the stats when you've simply looked at the number of clean sheets, a pretty useless stat in assessing how well a keeper is playing.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

It is ironic that you accuse people of being short sighted and not looking at the stats when you've simply looked at the number of clean sheets, a pretty useless stat in assessing how well a keeper is playing.

Well, at least there is an element of objectivity to it, in contrast to a reading on the king canary comfort scale 😋

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5 minutes ago, westcoastcanary said:

Well, at least there is an element of objectivity to it, in contrast to a reading on the king canary comfort scale 😋

Well if you want objective the Whoscored rating has him as about the 14th best keeper in the league this season.

Oh and they logged the goal on Saturday as being his error too. 

 

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Here you go, KC... Maybe this will make you feel more comfortable

image.thumb.png.feb56b54d9313e9361853f90e7134f95.png

Then we have the Leeds 'keeper

image.thumb.png.f54f1baeed674186b65b0a4cd109c2e6.png

Then Randolph, who does seem to be pretty darn good

image.thumb.png.894711c84afa2fc8b1cf4ac09bab557e.png

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5 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Here you go, KC... Maybe this will make you feel more comfortable

image.thumb.png.feb56b54d9313e9361853f90e7134f95.png

Then we have the Leeds 'keeper

image.thumb.png.f54f1baeed674186b65b0a4cd109c2e6.png

Then Randolph, who does seem to be pretty darn good

image.thumb.png.894711c84afa2fc8b1cf4ac09bab557e.png

I'm unsure of the point you think this is making.

What those stats show is Krul has saved a lower % of his shots than either of those keepers and is conceding goals more regularly. 

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Just trying to demonstrate that the keepers from the top three teams aren't really that far away from one another, aside from in the case of Randolph who seems to be doing alright. Mind you, both he and Krul have the same stats in terms of saves made per 90 mins. And Randolph has made one more save than him in the games thus far.

As LDC, me and a bunch of others said... We're top of the league. I am not getting overly concerned about Krul. However, you and a bunch of others (usually annoying people on FB group) are saying that he's rubbish.

Fair enough.

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7 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Just trying to demonstrate that the keepers from the top three teams aren't really that far away from one another, aside from in the case of Randolph who seems to be doing alright. Mind you, both he and Krul have the same stats in terms of saves made per 90 mins. And Randolph has made one more save than him in the games thus far.

As LDC, me and a bunch of others said... We're top of the league. I am not getting overly concerned about Krul. However, you and a bunch of others (usually annoying people on FB group) are saying that he's rubbish.

Fair enough.

I swear some folks on this forum are incapable of any nuance. 

I never said he was rubbish. In fact in my first post on this thread I said 'he's fine for now.'

Which he is- a solidly mid-table keeper playing in a team that is top of the league. 

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2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I swear some folks on this forum are incapable of any nuance. 

I never said he was rubbish. In fact in my first post on this thread I said 'he's fine for now.'

Which he is- a solidly mid-table keeper playing in a team that is top of the league. 

But your "nuance" there is that he is not good enough to be in a top of the league team.......but he is in a top of the league team, ergo, he must be good enough. 

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Just now, lake district canary said:

But your "nuance" there is that he is not good enough to be in a top of the league team.......but he is in a top of the league team, ergo, he must be good enough. 

*smashes head against desk*

My 'nuance' is exactly what I said in my first post- that if we could make one upgrade to our first XI it would be keeper in my opinion. 

Also that logic is nonsense- following that, Krul must be the best keeper in the league because he's currently top of the league right? 

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Well, Krul would likely be at the club still if we went up and I'd be happy to have him in the Prem if we get there.

It could be a different 'keeper and I'm sure there are plenty out there to look at. Gunn back on loan if we got to the promised land has probably been suggested.

But the simple fact is, and it's been said a billion times, all 'keepers make mistakes. Their mistakes tend to be costly and more glaringly obvious. With Krul, I feel like he's always at least tried to attone for his errors. Whether that be a really smart save later in the game to keep us in it, a quick throw that sets up an attack or, as was the case on Sat, coming out again and making another block after he'd spilled the initial shot. Sure, that led to a goal eventually but he's trying to do the right things.

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Saturdays match thread (a game where we won 4-1 away) - 4 pages , 102 replies and disappeared off the front page...

This thread (discussing the one goal conceded) - 4 pages , 103 replies and counting.....

Amazing really.

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2 minutes ago, lappinitup said:

Saturdays match thread (a game where we won 4-1 away) - 4 pages , 102 replies and disappeared off the front page...

This thread (discussing the one goal conceded) - 4 pages , 103 replies and counting.....

Amazing really.

Lapps actual opinions on the football- zero

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21 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Well, Krul would likely be at the club still if we went up and I'd be happy to have him in the Prem if we get there.

It could be a different 'keeper and I'm sure there are plenty out there to look at. Gunn back on loan if we got to the promised land has probably been suggested.

But the simple fact is, and it's been said a billion times, all 'keepers make mistakes. Their mistakes tend to be costly and more glaringly obvious. With Krul, I feel like he's always at least tried to attone for his errors. Whether that be a really smart save later in the game to keep us in it, a quick throw that sets up an attack or, as was the case on Sat, coming out again and making another block after he'd spilled the initial shot. Sure, that led to a goal eventually but he's trying to do the right things.

That is all fair enough, although I'd argue trying to attone for mistakes would be the bare minimum I'd expect from players. I'd certainly expect us to go after a keeper if we got promoted- lets not forget Krul was only signed as Remi flopped badly in pre-season which suggests he was never the long term plan.

I agree all players make errors- but I get annoyed by the fact that when things are going well it becomes heresy to suggest there are areas we could improve or players who could be doing better. It becomes doubly frutrating because the exact same people currently saying 'why are highlighting this when everything is going well' are the exact same folks who if things later don't go so well would say 'I didn't here you complaining about this when everything was going well!'

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Krul is an example of Webber and Farke backing their judgement on a player whose career potential measured by ability has remained less than fully realised through extraneous factors such as injury etc. Leitner, Stiepermann, Trybull are all examples. This managerial confidence has provided the now fit Krul with what he most needed, a consistent run as first choice keeper. Despite having been limited to just 6 appearances for Brighton last year (5 in cup matches, 1 for the U23s), some clearly expect him to turn in faultless performances from the first game of the season. Where, after just 18 games, is the patience that was almost universally accorded season after season the far from faultless Ruddy? Or the patience that was accorded the far from faultless Gunn on account of his youthfulness? For all the so-called "clangers", TK's contribution to our season has been massively positive, as witness the increased confidence of those in front of him.  

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Well it's a good thing Farke isn't using this message board to decide whether or not to drop Krul.

tampering with a winning formula is suicidal management.

Edited by Chelm Canary

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Krul has cost us at least two or three goals this season, and these can be ignored while we’re top of the table. I think it’s a worthwhile discussion (and not moaning for moaning’s sake that some bleat on about). I think if we were doing poorly then these errors would be talked about significantly more. At the moment, Krul is proving to be capable, but (if) we are promoted, he’s not PL class.

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2 hours ago, lappinitup said:

Saturdays match thread (a game where we won 4-1 away) - 4 pages , 102 replies and disappeared off the front page...

This thread (discussing the one goal conceded) - 4 pages , 103 replies and counting.....

Amazing really.

It’s actually a worthwhile discussion. If this board was spent entirely discussing what s brilliant football team and club we are it would be inherently boring.

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3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

But your "nuance" there is that he is not good enough to be in a top of the league team.......but he is in a top of the league team, ergo, he must be good enough. 

But could he be our De Gea though?

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7 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

 At the moment, Krul is proving to be capable, but (if) we are promoted, he’s not PL class.

Well he clearly was "PL class", being Newcastle's first choice keeper for 5 consecutive PL seasons until the run was halted by injury during which time he was also capped 8 times for the Netherlands (and, incidentally, made World Cup history by being the only goalkeeper to be brought on as a sub in the latter stages of extra time specifically for a penalty shootout, making two crucial saves to win the quarter final match).

So instead of writing him off as inadequate for the EPL in the event of our being promoted, why not just reserve judgement and see if, with the benefit of a full season of competitive matches between the sticks, he can recapture that level of form?

 

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1 hour ago, westcoastcanary said:

For all the so-called "clangers", TK's contribution to our season has been massively positive, as witness the increased confidence of those in front of him.  

There is nothing 'so-called' about them though is there? He completely missed a shot straight at him v West Brom, he threw the ball straight to a Millwall defender, he spilled a eminently savable shot straight to a Swansea forward.

It's disingenuous to act like these are small errors being overplayed- these are errors that directly cost us goals.

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1 hour ago, westcoastcanary said:

Krul is an example of Webber and Farke backing their judgement on a player whose career potential measured by ability has remained less than fully realised through extraneous factors such as injury etc. Leitner, Stiepermann, Trybull are all examples. This managerial confidence has provided the now fit Krul with what he most needed, a consistent run as first choice keeper. Despite having been limited to just 6 appearances for Brighton last year (5 in cup matches, 1 for the U23s), some clearly expect him to turn in faultless performances from the first game of the season. Where, after just 18 games, is the patience that was almost universally accorded season after season the far from faultless Ruddy? Or the patience that was accorded the far from faultless Gunn on account of his youthfulness? For all the so-called "clangers", TK's contribution to our season has been massively positive, as witness the increased confidence of those in front of him.  

I recall earlier this year the “faultless” Ruddy letting in a similar shot to Naughton’s from even further out (not even a parry) to allow us a last ditch equaliser at Molineux. Just a bit of perspective.

Also if you listen to the commentary on the extended highlights, late in the game the commentator is saying what a good game Krul has had. You need to judge over the whole match, or better still several matches.

I had a lot of concern when we signed Krul but he has won me over. Contributions other than shot stopping need to be considered. He is good with the ball at his feet essential to our play, his distribution and long kicking are good and he reputedly is a leader.

Yes he does make some errors, but let’s face it if he made less he would be playing at a higher level and not for us.

 

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18 minutes ago, king canary said:

There is nothing 'so-called' about them though is there? He completely missed a shot straight at him v West Brom, he threw the ball straight to a Millwall defender, he spilled a eminently savable shot straight to a Swansea forward.

It's disingenuous to act like these are small errors being overplayed- these are errors that directly cost us goals.

It's becoming quite a habit of yours king to fasten on the least important point in a post and ignore the rest. If you prefer, you can erase the "so-called" and the quotes round "clangers" and then read the whole again.

Regarding disingenuousness, most disingenuous of all is assiduously recounting the goals that TK has cost us while making no attempt to count the number of goals he has stopped us conceding.

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I'm sure I've seen several c**k ups from premier league goalkeepers this season involving poor throws and passing to defenders and messing up.  Are they not good enough either....or is it a case of goalkeepers being asked to be more influential in the way they play?  I saw Krul early in the season just sometimes kick the ball upfield and saw him admonished at least once for it by other players - Tettey for one - so he is obviously being asked to do something a bit different to what he is probably used to. 

He has improved, the goal on Saturday was an error, but it was an excuseable one, given the nature of the shot, the amount of players it came through and it bouncing and skidding off the turf just in front of him. I'm more than happy we've got him and if we get promoted I hope he stays.

 

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In terms of replacement if we go up, for me it would entirely depend on if we can get someone for a sensible price. If our only option was to splash big money on a fairly untried youngster like the Gunn deal last summer, I think I’d rather stick with Krul and invest the money elsewhere in the squad.

 

Krul has made mistakes this season and anyone in the squad should be replaceable if we can find a better alternative for decent money. However, he’s not so bad that I’d be crying out for us to go and bring someone else in at all costs. He is doing (and would I am sure in the premier league do) a decent job.

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