Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
kick it off

NFL Thread

Recommended Posts

Wade Phillips contract not renewed at the Rams. End of an era for a defensive coach who  brought on the likes of Reggie White (the greatest I have seen) and Bruce Smith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Niners have started brightly but now are vulnerable at CB (sound familiar close to home). Witherspoon looks like he has been in the pub.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Niners have started brightly but now are vulnerable at CB (sound familiar close to home). Witherspoon looks like he has been in the pub.

That TD should never have happened - no idea wtf he was thinking. I could have defended that pass better than he did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Offensive line now dominating a Vikings defence that is better as a pass rushing unit by running the ball whenever they can.

If it is a Niners v Ravens SB then one running team is going to have to give.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few bumps along the way,, but Niners go through fairly easily (and yes Cousins sucks or our D-Line is really good, or both ) - now Packers please stuff Seattle for us?  That made this Saturday a bit better 🙂

 

Now can the Titans out Raven the Ravens (run the ball, run the ball, run the ball?) 

Edited by Surfer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look what happens when Kirk Cousins plays against a decent defense... 172 yds, 1 TD (that should have been an INT or at least never have happened - also accounted for 40+ of his yards for the day) 1 INT, 742,000 Sacks.... 7 First downs in the entire game - 3rd lowest in playoff history.

Niners played well to be fair, far superior team to the Vikings. Bye Kirk.

Image result for kirk cousins you like that gif

Edited by kick it off

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elite QB’s find a way to solve defenses like the Niners brought today. Cousins is NOT an elite QB and neither is Garoppolo - both overpaid - but only one is so over rated (NFC East bias?) 

Tomorrow we WILL see two elite QB’s - Rogers and Wilson - both have iffy teams around them but they overcome those issues most weeks...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That journeyman QB Tannehill and the Titans have started rather well! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well well. That was unexpected. My SB pick Ravens bite the dust. Tannehill did just enough to allow his teammate Henry to run and run out the clock to victory again. 

So in other words the “boring old Ravens” style of Titans football just schooled the current “exciting” Ravens. A big time win. 

Edited by Surfer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't watch the Ravens game in the end but I had a feeling the Titans might have a shot to upset the apple cart after watching them last week.

Henry is a monster and that Offense is absolutely made for him - it's a really good fit. Tannehill might not be flashy, but he is pretty competent.

Unfortunately, the team I'd most want to watch is the Packers who are playing on the late kickoff so won't finish until stupid o clock. Can't be doing that on a school night.

Edited by kick it off

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Surfer said:

Elite QB’s find a way to solve defenses like the Niners brought today. Cousins is NOT an elite QB and neither is Garoppolo - both overpaid - but only one is so over rated (NFC East bias?) 

Tomorrow we WILL see two elite QB’s - Rogers and Wilson - both have iffy teams around them but they overcome those issues most weeks...

He isn't elite but he's still a better than average qb at this level.

It isn't his fault that the Niners kept one of the best running backs in the league to 18 yards on 9 carries- he can't do it all himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, king canary said:

He isn't elite but he's still a better than average qb at this level.

It isn't his fault that the Niners kept one of the best running backs in the league to 18 yards on 9 carries- he can't do it all himself.

That's kind of the problem. He can't do it all himself, yet he is paid to be elite and put the team on his back. He's not good enough for what he is paid.

Kirk's contract is 16% of the salary cap meaning that the money isn't there to beef up the OL amongst other positions.

So actually, it kind of is his fault that the Niners kept Cook to 18 yards and it kind of is his fault that he ate turf a billion times. IF he has more interest in winning than stacking money he doesnt need and will never spend, Vikings have a shot but he is more interested in the money. Nothing wrong with that, like I said, lots of NFL players do it, but don't then pretend you were more interested in winning.

Cousins will never win a Superbowl because he needs to be on a stacked team and he demands to be paid in a way that doesn't allow you to stack a team. His skill players are unreal, yet still they don't have those extra few million to build the trenches.Bad OL drafting doesn't help but maybe they're not reaching for those guys in the draft if they can afford to bring in a decent calibre FA help

I'm not saying Kirk has to live on bread and cheese to win - but if he'd really wanted to chase a trophy (bear in mind, he had made $45 million before he signed the Vikings contract so he had money already) then he could have signed for 18-20mill per year. Under market value? Sure, but look at how many moonshots the Patriots make with that 10-12 mill per season. Some work, some don't but they get great value if one or two of them come off. https://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4817033/new-england-patriots-2019-free-agent-signings-jason-mccourty-returns-to-deep-secondary

That's why the Patriots dynasty has been such a juggernaut - great drafting etc sure, but having Brady on a team friendly deal helps the team take those cheap high upside chances on players like Maurice Harris and that in turn leaves money left over for those calculated high reward risks in FA like Josh Gordon - don't always pan out but when they do,... 

Edited by kick it off

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kick it off said:

That's kind of the problem. He can't do it all himself, yet he is paid to be elite and put the team on his back. He's not good enough for what he is paid.

Kirk's contract is 16% of the salary cap meaning that the money isn't there to beef up the OL amongst other positions.

So actually, it kind of is his fault that the Niners kept Cook to 18 yards and it kind of is his fault that he ate turf a billion times. IF he has more interest in winning than stacking money he doesnt need and will never spend, Vikings have a shot but he is more interested in the money. Nothing wrong with that, like I said, lots of NFL players do it, but don't then pretend you were more interested in winning.

Cousins will never win a Superbowl because he needs to be on a stacked team and he demands to be paid in a way that doesn't allow you to stack a team. His skill players are unreal, yet still they don't have those extra few million to build the trenches.Bad OL drafting doesn't help but maybe they're not reaching for those guys in the draft if they can afford to bring in a decent calibre FA help

I'm not saying Kirk has to live on bread and cheese to win - but if he'd really wanted to chase a trophy (bear in mind, he had made $45 million before he signed the Vikings contract so he had money already) then he could have signed for 18-20mill per year. Under market value? Sure, but look at how many moonshots the Patriots make with that 10-12 mill per season. Some work, some don't but they get great value if one or two of them come off. https://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4817033/new-england-patriots-2019-free-agent-signings-jason-mccourty-returns-to-deep-secondary

That's why the Patriots dynasty has been such a juggernaut - great drafting etc sure, but having Brady on a team friendly deal helps the team take those calculated high reward risks in FA like Josh Gordon etc. 

Your personal dislike of Cousins seems to make you hold him to a standard nobody else is held to. It's a bit weird. If Haskins works out do you think he'll be signing a team friendly deal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, king canary said:

Your personal dislike of Cousins seems to make you hold him to a standard nobody else is held to. It's a bit weird. If Haskins works out do you think he'll be signing a team friendly deal?

Like I said, I don't care who signs for what as long as they own it. Kirk's martyr routine wears thin. "God told him to sign a 1 year deal". He only signed a 30mill per year fully guaranteed contract "to help other quarterbacks".... He never takes accountability for his actions and him demanding a fully guaranteed contract as the highest paid QB ever at the time harms his team's chances at winning.

I hold everybody to that standard - do they practice what they preach. Plenty in the NFL chase the money but at least they come out and say they feel they deserve to be paid like a top 5 QB or whatever. Cousins has this **** way of deflecting all responsibility for the choices he makes.

Bottom line, I think the guy is a **** and I hope he loses every time he steps on the field (and no, that's not sour grapes, I didn't like him when he was a Redskin either, and I wasn't the only one).

Edited by kick it off

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m rather with Kick It Off on this one, he’s an above average QB, not a great one, but being paid to be “ the man “ .
 

Rewind to one week ago. Leading the Saints with 3 min to go - that’s the time every good QB finds a way to get a couple of first downs and run out the clock - but no, three and out and so the Saints tie the game. Then he does one clutch throw in OT and all is forgotten.

Yesterday, is it his fault his RB gets so few yards? Maybe ask his RB and OL instead why he can’t throw some bombs downfield and get the Niners LB’s to back off the line of scrimmage? 

It’s certainly not ALL on Cousins, but a lot is expected of top QB’s and he’s not a rookie like Jackson who learned hard lessons yesterday

 

( And yes the “God told me to do it “ line does grate a lot too, he”s not the only explicitly godly athlete, but as in many other cases respect goes to religious people who walk the walk, rather than talk the talk - mini rant over) 

Edited by Surfer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Surfer said:

I’m rather with Kick It Off on this one, he’s an above average QB, not a great one, but being paid to be “ the man “ .
 

Rewind to one week ago. Leading the Saints with 3 min to go - that’s the time every good QB finds a way to get a couple of first downs and run out the clock - but no, three and out and so the Saints tie the game. Then he does one clutch throw in OT and all is forgotten.

Yesterday, is it his fault his RB gets so few yards? Maybe ask his RB and OL instead why he can’t throw some bombs downfield and get the Niners LB’s to back off the line of scrimmage? 

It’s certainly not ALL on Cousins, but a lot is expected of top QB’s and he’s not a rookie like Jackson who learned hard lessons yesterday

 

( And yes the “God told me to do it “ line does grate a lot too, he”s not the only explicitly godly athlete, but as in many other cases respect goes to religious people who walk the walk, rather than talk the talk - mini rant over) 

I just don't get why he's the only QB getting stick for being paid well.

Jared Goff got $35m a year to miss the playoffs, Jimmy Garrapolo gets the same yearly contract as Cousins to do less than him on the day, Nick Foles got an $88m contract and got benched for a 6th round rookie, yet none of these get the same stick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, king canary said:

I just don't get why he's the only QB getting stick for being paid well.

Jared Goff got $35m a year to miss the playoffs, Jimmy Garrapolo gets the same yearly contract as Cousins to do less than him on the day, Nick Foles got an $88m contract and got benched for a 6th round rookie, yet none of these get the same stick.

Because those guys keep their mouths shut, unlike Cousins who comes across as a gobby “overtly godly”‘ self centered hypocrite? 

I agree Garoppolo is overpaid, I said so earlier, but he’s lost a sum total of 5 games while at the 49ers franchise and he comes across as a team player. Maybe easy to do when you get paid that much, but he’s doing it, Cousins should take note. Oh and Jimmy’s team beat Kirk's team by three scores, which is what counts. 

Geoff took the Rams to the Superbowl and he plays in the 2nd biggest TV market in the country so understandable he’d be paid well. You may have noticed the Rams just fired theIr defense coach.... can you think why? 

Foles was MVP in the Super Bowl he won with the Eagles. I agree he’s overpaid but at least he’s actually done it, and the Jaguars owner is the same dude who owns Fulham so he has form for paying way too much for veteran players.

Edited by Surfer
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well after the Sandlot game (congrats Houston on blowing that 24 point lead by halftime) we had a proper game in Green Bay. Well done both teams and look forward to Packers v Niners In the NFC Title Game!  And can the Titans pull another upset in Kansas City?

 

Edited by Surfer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Surfer said:

Because those guys keep their mouths shut, unlike Cousins who comes across as a gobby “overtly godly”‘ self centered hypocrite? 

I agree Garoppolo is overpaid, I said so earlier, but he’s lost a sum total of 5 games while at the 49ers franchise and he comes across as a team player. Maybe easy to do when you get paid that much, but he’s doing it, Cousins should take note. Oh and Jimmy’s team beat Kirk's team by three scores, which is what counts. 

Geoff took the Rams to the Superbowl and he plays in the 2nd biggest TV market in the country so understandable he’d be paid well. You may have noticed the Rams just fired theIr defense coach.... can you think why? 

Foles was MVP in the Super Bowl he won with the Eagles. I agree he’s overpaid but at least he’s actually done it, and the Jaguars owner is the same dude who owns Fulham so he has form for paying way too much for veteran players.

Maybe I've just not spent enough time reading interviews with Cousins but he's always struck my as quite inoffensive- the god stuff is hardly rare in the NFL.

I just don't get the idea that he, and only he, should be criticized for not taking a contract well below his market value. It isn't his fault that there is basically no mid-tier QB market and I've got no issue with the 10th or 11th best QB in the league getting paid the 7th most per year.

I'd certainly have him over Goff and Foles, not sure on Garoppolo. Goff is the ultimate system QB- amazing when he had Gurley at his peak and Sean McVay in his ear, take that away and he's poor. I wonder if Garoppolo is the same- 9ers D is lights out, Shanahan is one of the games best offensive minds and has the second best running attack in the league.  Foles is a weird QB who has only ever had success in short bursts and struggles as a full-time starter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spent a long day playing golf yesterday in the Cornish uplands so didn't have much chance to catch any news and views.

Obviously the Ravens result is the shock of the year. These guys know what its like to win in post season so should have definitely made it to the Championship match at least.

Interested in the debate about QB's. I can understand KIO's apparent dislike of Cousins. Frank Gore was not a favourite of mine after the things he said when leaving the Niners. OK, he was probably carrying the team on offense but sometimes a bit of humility and manners means you can leave with good grace.

We come to the Championship games with a real mix of QB's. Mahomes is the one with the future before him. He is bring  a new style and vision for the position. Rodgers is obviously the been there, bought the t-shirt stand out who is helping a team in transition and doing a great job still. Tannehill is a surprise. Traded as a back up originally he has grabbed his opportunity well. And then Jimmy, I think he would be lost in a struggling team and I am not convinced he is what the Niners really need. But with that running game, he doesn't have to do much. And with the best TE since Gronk, he has it made.

I do think the Niners have the best all round squad at the moment. They don't rely on just one player to sack the QB and although I probably would never be a friend of Bosa, he will become the best defensive end in the NFL. And offensively, they have an eclectic mix of players who do their jobs.

To be honest unless Green Bay can stop the run, it will be the Niners v ??

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Titans. 

I think, but boy that is going to be an interesting game. Kansas should win, but then so should the Ravens. 

 

Back on the QB's agree with your analysis. Ironically, before trading for Garoppolo the Niners were rumored to be chasing Cousins. In Atlanta's Super Bowl run the QB as Matt Ryan. Very solid, accurate but not asked to do too much. It's often been the best formula. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Titans. 

I think, but boy that is going to be an interesting game. Kansas should win, but then so should the Ravens. 

 

Back on the QB's agree with your analysis. Ironically, before trading for Garoppolo the Niners were rumored to be chasing Cousins. In Atlanta's Super Bowl run the QB as Matt Ryan. Very solid, accurate but not asked to do too much. It's often been the best formula. 

Think that is harsh on Matt Ryan- he was league MVP that season, career high in yards, YPA, passer rating and touch downs. I'd have Ryan over most QB's in the league. 

For me QBs break down into a few different groups-

Elite- Brees, Wilson, Mahomes and Rodgers. 

Starters with the potential to become elite- Wentz, Prescott, Jackson, Watson 

Established, above average vets- Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Kirk Cousins, maybe Ryan Tannehill?

Young with potential- Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Dwayne Haskins, Daniel Jones

Vets past their best- Newton (due to injury), Brady, Rivers, Dalton, Flacco

Probably not good enough- Trubisky, Lock, Brissett, Carr, Winston

Ryan Fitzpatrick- Ryan Fitzpatrick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe a bit harsh, but in the system he does not have to be elite. Your view on Garoppolo? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Maybe a bit harsh, but in the system he does not have to be elite. Your view on Garoppolo? 

Weird one. 

Due to being in New England and then his injury issues he's actually not even got two seasons worth of starts under his belt, but he's 28 so too old to be considered a young'un with potential. 

I personally think he's very similar to Cousins- good enough to keep a team moving but not going to drag a franchise along by himself. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprise. NFL analysis still has Andrew Luck in the Top Ten of QBs. I must admit, I don't know how many times I have seen the Colts. Obviously a top team back in the early days in Baltimore but apart from the odd season when Dickerson was their runner, the seemed to suit their old nickname, the Dolts.

I agree that is fair about Jimmy. All I can assume is that Shanahan thinks he will stick to the plays which should be enough with that running game. But should anyone stop it, he doesn't look capable of taking control from the pocket.

Interesting KC, that you have Brady and Brees far apart on the list. Both in their forties and defying Old Father Time. Do you really think Brady is past it? And don't forget, Manning is still on the roster at the Giants

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, king canary said:

Maybe I've just not spent enough time reading interviews with Cousins but he's always struck my as quite inoffensive- the god stuff is hardly rare in the NFL.

I just don't get the idea that he, and only he, should be criticized for not taking a contract well below his market value. It isn't his fault that there is basically no mid-tier QB market and I've got no issue with the 10th or 11th best QB in the league getting paid the 7th most per year.

The god stuff is duplicitous being the issue. I dont care what religion you are, or what your motives are, but at least be a man and front up to them. Hiding behind your religion to cover your money grabbing is pathetic by any standard. As if "God" gives a toss whether Cousins signs a one year deal or multi year.

He wasn't 7th highest paid when he signed, he was highest paid player ever. Fully guaranteed. But he didn't do that for himself of course, he wasn't bothered about that, he was just helping other QBs by setting the market....

The guy is so full of ****, it's unreal. He wouldn't have signed at mid-tier level, his red line was to be the highest paid QB/player ever. Anything less he doesn't sign. Like I said, if thats his motive then fine, no issue, but don't then hide behind your religion or complain when held to the standard of your contract. He made a big fuss about wanting to be on a team that could win, and how it wasn't about the money before demanding a contract so high it harms the Viking's chances of winning. He didn't sign for market rate remember, he demanded the market be reset for him.

There are plenty who chased the money at the Redskins, there are plenty that played far worse for us than Cousins did, but there's an awful lot of Redskins fans who specifically think Cousins is a **** and want him to fail without caring about the others. The reason is the way he conducted/conducts himself. He talks out both sides of his mouth and he takes no responsibility.

Josh Norman is a good example. He's paid 16mill per year and has SUCKED on the field for the Redskins since we gave him the massive contract, with the exception of the first year or so. Gets torched every week and was benched for most of the season. Everybody wants him cut, but when he is, nobody will care what he does or where he goes. He made it clear he was about the money, we signed him on that basis and he may be as dumb as a box of frogs but at least he is honest. 

Edited by kick it off

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Surprise. NFL analysis still has Andrew Luck in the Top Ten of QBs. I must admit, I don't know how many times I have seen the Colts.

Andrew Luck who retired in the Summer?! Bizarre to say the least!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...