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12 hours ago, king canary said:

Elite- Brees, Wilson, Mahomes and Rodgers. 

Starters with the potential to become elite- Wentz, Prescott, Jackson, Watson 

Established, above average vets- Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Kirk Cousins, maybe Ryan Tannehill?

Young with potential- Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray, Dwayne Haskins, Daniel Jones

Vets past their best- Newton (due to injury), Brady, Rivers, Dalton, Flacco

Probably not good enough- Trubisky, Lock, Brissett, Carr, Winston

Ryan Fitzpatrick- Ryan Fitzpatrick

Elite - Agree fully

Starters with elite potential - Jackson and Watson for sure.

Dak has an elite OL so has all day to throw, elite RB to help him out. Elite WR in Cooper.... He's had an awful lot of tools to succeed and not put it all together (albeit whilst posting decent numbers). I don't disagree with you, but I wonder what he looks like without all that help or what happens if you put Daniel Jones for example into that same situation.

Wentz - Talent wise, no doubt, but at this point durability has got to be a concern. I know concussion was a freak injury off a cheap shot, but he always seems to be going down for one reason or another.

Agree with the rest. 

Although I'm adding Gardner Minshew II into the elite category based exclusively on the moustache.

Edited by kick it off

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5 hours ago, kick it off said:

Elite - Agree fully

Starters with elite potential - Jackson and Watson for sure.

Dak has an elite OL so has all day to throw, elite RB to help him out. Elite WR in Cooper.... He's had an awful lot of tools to succeed and not put it all together (albeit whilst posting decent numbers). I don't disagree with you, but I wonder what he looks like without all that help or what happens if you put Daniel Jones for example into that same situation.

Wentz - Talent wise, no doubt, but at this point durability has got to be a concern. I know concussion was a freak injury off a cheap shot, but he always seems to be going down for one reason or another.

Agree with the rest. 

Although I'm adding Gardner Minshew II into the elite category based exclusively on the moustache.

Obviously I am a homer but agree that Wentz needs to stay healthy next season- if he gets two full 16 game seasons in a row under his belt then I think the durability questions die down. 

I kind of agree about Dak, which also ties back into my evaluation of Wentz. Down the stretch he had to put his team on his back without his top 3 receivers, top power back, right tackle and occasionally his top tight end, yet he managed it. Would Prescott have done it? I'm not so sure. I am certain though that someone like Goff couldn't have. 

The current youngsters are an interesting lot too- Baker looked like a star last season, this season looks awful. Darnold is hamstrung by being part of the Jets tire fire but flashes potential. Jones is odd- his good stuff is really good but his bad stuff is really bad. Turning the ball over 23 times (11 lost fumbles and 12 interceptions) in 13 games is a real concern. Trubisky is a bust for me and I can't believe the Bears have said he'll start next season.

 

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Just looking at some stats (if you started reading NFL stats right now, you would never finish them) a Kicker has never won MVP at a SB. Probably wouldn't want one to be as it would sound a sterile game, but kickers and punters are probably the most underrated players. And many, particularly punters are on league minimum or slightly better. Gould is the highest I believe and that isn't $5M a season.

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Just looking forward to the early morning game Niners v Pack.

One of the big match ups could be Fred Warner against Aaron Jones. Jones had a decent season and scores regularly. Stop him and I think the Niners could win without too much drama.

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So pissed off that the 9ers and Pack is the late game - school tomorrow so can't really justify staying up all night watching it, but it is by far the most interesting game of the two for me.

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Brady most hated but I can see Dolphins loving to sign him as a free agent!
 

Kansas v San Francisco superbowel coming up.

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3 hours ago, kick it off said:

So pissed off that the 9ers and Pack is the late game - school tomorrow so can't really justify staying up all night watching it, but it is by far the most interesting game of the two for me.

In all fairness, first half has been a brilliant watch.

Mahomes is playing lights out.

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3 hours ago, kick it off said:

In all fairness, first half has been a brilliant watch.

Mahomes is playing lights out.

Niners game... ditto. Jimmy G has been stellar today. Showing everyone exactly why he's our QB.

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5 hours ago, Surfer said:

Niners game... ditto. Jimmy G has been stellar today. Showing everyone exactly why he's our QB.

😂 Jimmy completed 6 passes (of 8 attempts) for 77 yards the entire game. 0 TD 0 INT.

Mahomes was 23/35 for 294 yards 3TD 0 INT.

Unless you meant Jimmy was stellar at handing the ball to your Running Backs, not sure it's comparable!!!

Going to be an interesting Superbowl for sure.

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Real clash of styles for the Super Bowl- can an amazing defence shut down an elite young qb in the form of his life?

Its mad that we’ve seen four playoff wins with a qb throwing for under 150 just this postseason but I’m not sure it is sustainable- teams like that need to get a lead and control the game, but the Chiefs can score points so quickly out can’t ever be comfortable that you’re truly ahead. The big test for San Francisco and Jimmy G will be what happens if they go 10-14 points behind and need to start throwing the ball.

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Unless you meant Jimmy was stellar at handing the ball to your Running Backs, not sure it's comparable!!!

It is so difficult to single out any Niners player. Jimmy's stats look daft for a winning QB but doesn't tell the story of a dominant team running the ball because it is still the main part of the game. But his play action creates lanes for runners to hit, so he is very important to this team.

I couldn't believe it when we went virtually out of sight in the first half. No Coleman but Mostert has the game of his life and Kittle and Juszczyk along with the underrated Samuels did some great blocking.

I cannot believe that a franchise that looked lost since Kaepernick are now on the verge of joining the Pats and Steelers as the really great franchises of the modern NFL.

Tired but elated this morning.

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The reason Jimmy G threw 8 times all game is very simple...." we were getting what 8, 9 yards a rush... so why would we throw it? "

It's so interesting to see the Niners playing such apparently anti-Niner football, that said, in previous Super Bowl years we also had a stellar defense, but the offense "ran" the ball with short passes, or Kaepernick took off like Mahomes does. But this running attack is so successful that even play action wasn't much needed to spread out the defense. Yesterday was "you know we are going to run it, we know you know we are going to run it, so stop us" Unlike Giants and Steelers though this wasn't boring smash mouth straight ahead football.

It's going to be a very interesting Super Bowl.... 

 

Edited by Surfer

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3 minutes ago, Surfer said:

The reason Jimmy G threw 8 times all game is very simple...." we were getting what 8, 9 yards a rush... so why would we throw it? "

 

That is fair. Just seems weird to call him stellar based on that.

I think it is fair to say Garropolo hasn't really been tested properly this post-season. I'll be interested to see how that changes in Miami.

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It's so interesting to see the Niners playing such apparently anti-Niner football, that said, in previous Super Bowl years we also had a stellar defense, but the offense "ran" the ball with short passes, or Kaepernick took off like Mahomes does. 

Roger Craig was a great receiver as well as a very good running back, in the great 80's sides. I have always like that kind of back as opposed to the Riggins power or the Allen grace.

But now it is about deception as well as skill and Shanahan has conceived a system with a bunch of vets, rookies, nobodies and a QB who is not rated by all. Wait for others to copy it.

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Oh absolutely. Especially if the Niners win - and King Canary, the SB will be as much or possibly more about whether the Kansas defense can stop the SF running game, or their tight end, or the deep passing game - we have only needed the first element of our attack so far... 

I doubt the game will be a shootout , and Kansas to me look like the Seahawks, very dangerous but also beatable SF 31 - 17 KC

Edited by Surfer

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5 hours ago, Surfer said:

Oh absolutely. Especially if the Niners win - and King Canary, the SB will be as much or possibly more about whether the Kansas defense can stop the SF running game, or their tight end, or the deep passing game - we have only needed the first element of our attack so far... 

I doubt the game will be a shootout , and Kansas to me look like the Seahawks, very dangerous but also beatable SF 31 - 17 KC

Sounds to me like you're hugely underestimating Mahomes here. The Chiefs have been held to under 20 points just once this season.

The Titans went into their game with KC with a similar game plan- run the ball, control time of possession and keep Mahomes off the field. It didn't work. 

The Niners have shown they can do shootouts too- the game against New Orleans being the obvious example- but I don't see how it isn't a close game.

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The Niners have shown they can do shootouts too- the game against New Orleans being the obvious example- but I don't see how it isn't a close game.

Funnily enough, the spread betting favours the Chiefs at the moment.

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These Niners are not the Titans, who do play smash mouth football. Niners attack is much more sophisticated than that. As for Mahones, I think he’s great, but he may be too much of a linch pin for their attack. If the Niners can stop his runs then I do see them limiting the Chiefs to under 20 points. We will see, looking forward to finding out in two weeks time! 

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20 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

It's so interesting to see the Niners playing such apparently anti-Niner football, that said, in previous Super Bowl years we also had a stellar defense, but the offense "ran" the ball with short passes, or Kaepernick took off like Mahomes does. 

Roger Craig was a great receiver as well as a very good running back, in the great 80's sides. I have always like that kind of back as opposed to the Riggins power or the Allen grace.

But now it is about deception as well as skill and Shanahan has conceived a system with a bunch of vets, rookies, nobodies and a QB who is not rated by all. Wait for others to copy it.

Kyle is a genius to be fair in devising schemes. He's truly outstanding at adapting his scheme to fit his pieces. When we had RG3, he had a passing game which was almost solely play action, bootlegs and bubble screens and a running game that put 1000 yard seasons on scrubs like Roy Helu Jr (combined yards, not just rushing). We were incredibly effective. He consistently does well at getting more than the sum of his parts.

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With Manning now gone, I do sense the era of the All American Boy at QB is coming to an end. It isn't just enough to sit in the pocket a deal out pass after pass. You have to be an athlete. You have to think  differently. Defences can work out the passing moves easier now not only with the backs but the offensive line.

The Niners do it differently with play action but so many of the better teams have QBs who are prepared to adapt. 

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22 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

With Manning now gone, I do sense the era of the All American Boy at QB is coming to an end. It isn't just enough to sit in the pocket a deal out pass after pass. You have to be an athlete. You have to think  differently. Defences can work out the passing moves easier now not only with the backs but the offensive line.

The Niners do it differently with play action but so many of the better teams have QBs who are prepared to adapt. 

Colleges just don't turn out 6' 4" pocket passers any more so the NFL is having to adapt.

There also seems to be a lack of quality O-line players coming out of college which means mobility is even more important for QB's.

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Good luck the all the Niners fans on this thread- I am on team KC tonight due to the Andy Reid connection but for the first superbowl in ages I will be happy if either team win.

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Aye, agree with King. Too late for me on a school night but I’ll watch tomorrow - no massive preference but nominally I’m hoping the 9ers do it for those on the thread and the Shanahan connection. I’m just happy to see a Super Bowl without the patriots. Much as I respect Belichick and Brady, I’m bored ****less of seeing them in the Super Bowl.

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On a vaguely related note, Former Redskin and 49er Vernon Davis announced his retirement roday. He had a great career and seems like a good guy.

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Congratulations to the Chiefs, the Niners played well, but failed to run out the clock when ahead. The QB battle won hands down by Mahones, who despite two picks was able to move the chains in the 4th Qtr and Jimmy G could not.

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