City players and World War One

[shefcanary 2,389]

The poppy is the creation of the fundraising team at the British Legion.  It helps them raise funds to support ex-Armed service people.  People who pay for a poppy are helping the British Legion in their charitable aim of assisting Armed service personnel make their way through life after their armed service.  No more no less.

Shouldn't the government do that anyway as part of the supposed service contract?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

What a load of claptrap from an egotistical know all who pretends to speak for the world. Your world has nothing in common with the real one.

And your cpmplete complication of a simple matter of wearing a symbol of respect and not throwing the pathetic attitude of choice into it has no bearing.

Your fancy words just obscure someone who is patently thick! 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Not you Shef, that idiot who still doesn't know who he is.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Oh well, I suppose I'll give my pennysworth.....i don't usually wear a poppy, but I respect anyone that does, just as I expect to be respected for my choice not to do so.  Wearing a poppy has become a "you must wear one or you are not fitting in" kind of symbol and that is wrong imo. 

The main reason for buying a poppy in my opinion is to give money to the charity involved - and in that I will often put a pound or two in a poppy collecting tin - but no-one has the right to tell me I should wear a poppy nor assume that if I don't wear one that I don't respect those that have fallen in their duty for our country.  Every person has the right to do what they want and I will stand in silence and have thoughts about things on Remembrance Day as well as most other people, but I will not wear something that isn't necessary for me to have those thoughts just because someone says I should wear one.

Buying a poppy is mainly supporting a charity and I don't need to wear a poppy to give to charity nor have to wear some visual symbol just to please those that think that everyone has to wear one or they are some kind of social pariah. 

Whatever happened to freedom of choice?? 

 

[king canary 7,580]

Crikey, a thread I agree with Bill & LDC both on!

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Crikey, a thread I agree with Bill & LDC both on!

Me too. Some good points raised by both.

[king canary 7,580]

Just to further add- the poppy for me is symbol of quiet remembrance and that goes out the window the second you have people demanding others wear them to prove they care. Also for some it gets used to try and take some form of moral high ground- recently there has been a noticeable increase in the amount of people on social media lecturing others for 'wearing the poppy wrong' because the leaf isn't pointing in the right direction. Those people don't actually care about respect or remembrance, they just want to feel morally superior. 

Equally I have very little time for the performative, dramatic 'I'm not wearing a poppy because of this' when nobody has asked you. Wear it or don't but don't make a huge fuss of it. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by king canary

[lake district canary 4,531]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

. Wear it or don't but don't make a huge fuss of it. 

Very much this^^^.    The problem arises when institutions make edicts that everyone in their organisation has to wear it. That is fundamentally wrong as wearing or not wearing a poppy should be an individual choice. 

 

[Bill 1,788]

23 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

What a load of claptrap from an egotistical know all who pretends to speak for the world. Your world has nothing in common with the real one.

And your cpmplete complication of a simple matter of wearing a symbol of respect and not throwing the pathetic attitude of choice into it has no bearing.

Your fancy words just obscure someone who is patently thick! 

 

If people don't want to buy a poppy or its equivalent then fine,

or

It is not your right, it is right, that you should wear one

You seem rather confused and angry that anyone should choose either not to participate, or to be really not that bothered.

Was there much made of the 100th anniversary of Waterloo ?

Trying to shut down debate will not change minds - nor will coercion help matters either. And to claim that some are complicating things is absurd.  It is a very complex matter and to think it can all be swept under the carpet by conforming is as stupid as it is dangerous. When you have folk who feel cowed into 'conforming' then maybe you are at the beginning of ignorant folk handing out white feathers.

By all means post up abusive words. Call me a 'conchie' if that helps. But the true reality is you do not know if I am wearing a poppy, where I will be and what I will be thing at 11 am Sunday morning as yours is just more bluster by those who seem unable to hear any other other voice than that of the bugle.

What I know though is that I don't need others to tell me when and how I remember ............as the words pf John Donne sum up better my thoughts than ever some militaristic jamboree does.

 

"No man is an island entire of itself, every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; 

if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe 
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as 
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine 
own were; any man's death diminishes me, 
because I am involved in mankind. 

And therefore never send to know for whom 
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. "

 

 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Trying to shut down debate will not change minds 

So why take a pop at Swindon? You, as usual, turned a decent post into all about you. And I normally try to avoid posting within a page or two of you but couldn''t sit back and let you swipe at someone who served his country.

 

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: 

Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn. 

At the going down of the sun and in the morning 

We will remember them.

 

[lake district canary 4,531]

On 07/11/2018 at 23:00, nutty nigel said:

 

 

This sums it up for me.  Buying a poppy is to contribute to a good cause - to help the living. I think it's great if people want to wear one, but don't tell me it is important to wear one, becuase I don't believe it is. There are many way of showing respect for anyone, living or dead and after seeing this video I may go out and put some more money in a poppy collecting tin - because it reinforces my point of view that buying a poppy is for the living, but I still won't necessarily be taking one or wearing it.

The "you will wear one or you wil be considered not worthy" attitude is like an attempt at moral blackmail.  People should be able to give to charity anonymously and in private.  Buying a poppy should not be about "show"......it's about giving and whether you wear it or not is irrelevant. 

[nutty nigel 7,513]

Wearing or not wearing a poppy is a matter of choice. I get that. After all you can give to the cause without wearing a poppy and if you've stored it well you can wear last year's poppy without giving to the cause. It's all choice of the individuals. Which is fair enough because, I guess, having that choice is a right that was fought for.

But we've never had so much choice as we have now. In fact some of the choices we now are pressured to make bring more pressure than not having to make the choice.

I guess that's a whole different issue but I'm interested whether observing the minutes silence is a personal choice where we should respect the individual choice made. Or should minutes silences be replaced by minutes applause in which the individual can make that choice without infringing on the choice others make?

[king canary 7,580]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

I guess that's a whole different issue but I'm interested whether observing the minutes silence is a personal choice where we should respect the individual choice made. Or should minutes silences be replaced by minutes applause in which the individual can make that choice without infringing on the choice others make?

For me there is a fundamental difference between wearing a poppy and observing a minutes silence. If someone chooses to ignore a minutes silence they stop everyone else there from observing it and remembering. Someone not wearing a poppy doesn't infringe on anyone else being able to do so.

[SwindonCanary 455]

People that know me understand that as much as I'm proud of my previous career, I will discuss it when asked, regale when invited to do so but don't walk round with my medals, tie and blazer on all the time.
But this time of year is different - it is special to me. that's why I wear a poppy.
It is a time for me to privately reflect, to remember my comrades, my brothers and sisters of my real family and to respect the ultimate sacrifice made for this country by some who I knew and many that I didn't.
I am a Veteran, and a Veteran is someone, who at one point in their life, wrote a blank cheque payable to the United Kingdom for an amount up to, and including, their life. Regardless of personal political views, it is an honour to serve one's country, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer remember that fact.
Proud to have served

[nutty nigel 7,513]

37 minutes ago, king canary said:

For me there is a fundamental difference between wearing a poppy and observing a minutes silence. If someone chooses to ignore a minutes silence they stop everyone else there from observing it and remembering. Someone not wearing a poppy doesn't infringe on anyone else being able to do so.

Totally agree Kingo. But while we agree on that others can, if they wish, point to a freedom of choice where they should be free not to observe it. We are probably straying into morals here but in today's society it seems that if individuals are within the law of the land they have the right to respect for whatever they may choose to do. 

 

 

[splendidrush 700]

In NZ we observe ANZAC day,  the whole Country seems to be involved, documentaries on TV, the radio and newspapers all recognize the sacrifice made.  Every Town has a memorial to the fallen and because NZ lost so many in campaigns like Gallipoli it is still a major part of the calendar. It's entirely possible that remembrance has been hijacked in the UK to mean something different.... not so here

[Yellowfuture 71]

I don’t think it’s been hijacked in the UK but it has taken on a higher profile in recent years due to the the centenary.

We have become much more judgemental and intolerant as a society and that plays through even to events such as remeberance which for my part should be a personal reflective experience.

[Bill 1,788]

6 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Trying to shut down debate will not change minds 

So why take a pop at Swindon? You, as usual, turned a decent post into all about you. And I normally try to avoid posting within a page or two of you but couldn''t sit back and let you swipe at someone who served his country.

 

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: 

Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn. 

At the going down of the sun and in the morning 

We will remember them.

 

Odd how almost 100% of those we are supposed to remember died on foreign soil.

What part of the Blackhill tenement slum was my uncle Davey defending in Singapore ? The lad from my village in the 2nd Norfolks who died in Kut ? Was he defending the tied cottage his family lived in, from marauding Turks.

Did those 300 odd Norfolk lads who were drowned when the Royal Edward was sunk in Aug 1915 die to stop those same Turks from denying their right of freedom of speech. Hardly, as anyone who spoke up in those days was branded a trouble maker and lost his job, and often his home.

Read up on the struggles of the Agricultural Workers Union. They fought for what they believed in - not what they were told to believe in. Read up on how returning soldiers in Norfolk were treated. Land fit for Heroes, my ar se.

And as to Swindon's guff about being a 'veteran' A veteran of what. The Icelandic Cod wars. Where the UK navy sought to support UK fishing piracy. And what did he suffer. The Naafi tea urn falling on his head (which may now explain a lot).

So carry on with your delusion. Join in the pantomime that seems to celebrate the cause' rather than to ever ask why.

Why a 19 year old lad with learning difficulties disappeared from the face of this earth and has only a name on the Menin Gate to acknowledge his part in this gallant effort to defend our rights.

So where was his right to say that as he had no quarrel with some other 19 year old from a similar farming world could he be left out of this 'noble sacrifice' ?

Maybe someone told him it was best to 'just conform'. Don't ask why son, yours is to do or die.

For what, I ask. For what ?

[KiwiScot 1,437]

11 hours ago, Bill said:

Odd how almost 100% of those we are supposed to remember died on foreign soil. 

For what, I ask. For what ?

Its clear like most things today we feel more open to challenge the status quo thus why issues poppies and remembering fallen soldiers are more controversial. The deaths should be remembered and if it opens debate for the why's and how's of their death then good.

[Mello Yello 2,282]

I shall be wearing my poppy/NCFC pin badge today at the game  - and will respect and observe the minutes silence. I will also be in attendance at my local War Memorial tomorrow to pay my respects and gratitude in remembering all those men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice.....

Whether I'm in the majority or in the minority in doing the above......it's as folk say, down to one's personal belief and choice......

 

 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

No words needed.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

Taken by a friend at Ibrox today and posted on her Facebook. Again no words needed.

[Bill 1,788]

Only someone as clueless as you plod could fail to see the irony there

how many of them have spent every July 1th parading the streets celebrating a battle of over 300 years ago ?

no chance of them forgetting - whatever it is

as to holding up a piece of coloured as card as expected that is not that far removed from something you would see in North Korea

still never mind, it's Pudsey Bear next so we can all remember the children who are suffering

and then the homeless just before Xmas

so if you hand over some change, (remember not to ask why) you can fill your chest with poppies, badges, red noses and whatever

enough to even rival Prince Charle's collection of medals

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

In NZ we observe ANZAC day,  the whole Country seems to be involved, documentaries on TV, the radio and newspapers all recognize the sacrifice made.  Every Town has a memorial to the fallen and because NZ lost so many in campaigns like Gallipoli it is still a major part of the calendar. It's entirely possible that remembrance has been hijacked in the UK to mean something different.... not so here

 

I lived in NZ during the 70s Splendid and remember Anzac Day and the Dawn Parade. What was so compelling in NZ was that Veterans, Serving personnel and pacifists would all come together in respect.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

When i posted no words needed i really should have known better as on today of all days only the poster who could start an argument in an empty phone box turns up to insult and belittle something that has been posted.

[93vintage 16]

On 10/11/2018 at 01:04, Bill said:

And as to Swindon's guff about being a 'veteran' A veteran of what. The Icelandic Cod wars. Where the UK navy sought to support UK fishing piracy. And what did he suffer. The Naafi tea urn falling on his head (which may now explain a lot).

Swindon is a Falklands veteran, I'm pretty sure he's mentioned being on one of the task force ships.

[Bill 1,788]

15 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

When i posted no words needed i really should have known better as on today of all days only the poster who could start an argument in an empty phone box turns up to insult and belittle something that has been posted.

Or maybe expose the hypocrisy.

And the idiocy behind the thought that events which led to the deaths of tens of millions of non combatants can be closed down by pictures of folk holding up coloured cards sums up your shallow jingoism.

If you don't like comments plod, then don't post on a forum would be my advice.

 

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

City1st/ Bill/ Ben wrote

And as to Swindon's guff about being a 'veteran' A veteran of what. The Icelandic Cod wars. Where the UK navy sought to support UK fishing piracy. And what did he suffer. The Naafi tea urn falling on his head (which may now explain a lot).

please remember I was also in the falklands, Northern Ireland, Cyprus and Belize THAT'S WHAT !

[Bill 1,788]

but not at your local war memorial yesterday morning

[SwindonCanary 455]

Oh yes I was !