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OT - EU straw poll...

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4 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Of course not, she's far too smart for that.

She will simply point out that in law, just as in politics, English law trumps Scottish law and that the Scots should 'take back control' because despite all the false promises and token devolution whilst Scotland remains in the UK the important decisions will always be made in London rather than Edinburgh.

It fits her narrative perfectly, and has the additional benefit of actually being true.

Then you will have to point out to her that its the UK Supreme Court

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2 minutes ago, wooster said:

Herman,

When I knew Ulstermen in the mid/late '70s their expectation was for unification post 2000, when via the Catholic (higher) birthrate the reunification vote had cumulatively overtaken the Protestant vote.  Therefore the Union was always, in their eyes, transitory.

Given the SNP's wish for separation remains, despite the 'once in a generation' vote then the Union has a limited shelf life come what may.  Brexit, or the lack of it, offers them a basis for arguing for self-determination separate to the remainder of the UK.

 

A residual political entity shaved of Northern Ireland and Scotland would be a very interesting economic unit.  Dropping the Welsh would make it an economic haven. 

 

Following Wooster's train of thought if we could just dump all the left behind areas and just keep the south east it would be perfect. Whatto Jeeves!

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4 minutes ago, wooster said:

Herman,

When I knew Ulstermen in the mid/late '70s their expectation was for unification post 2000, when via the Catholic (higher) birthrate the reunification vote had cumulatively overtaken the Protestant vote.  Therefore the Union was always, in their eyes, transitory.

Given the SNP's wish for separation remains, despite the 'once in a generation' vote then the Union has a limited shelf life come what may.  Brexit, or the lack of it, offers them a basis for arguing for self-determination separate to the remainder of the UK.

 

A residual political entity shaved of Northern Ireland and Scotland would be a very interesting economic unit.  Dropping the Welsh would make it an economic haven. 

 

In a nutshell you would be happy with the break up of the UK as a direct result of our decision to leave the EU? English nationalism in its glory. What a waste.

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1 minute ago, wooster said:

I was being ironic

Its not a good time for irony, too many precious souls about😯

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Nevertheless I think we should think about different relationships between N Ireland & Scotland, not because I wish it but because it may happen anyway  

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Just now, wooster said:

Nevertheless I think we should think about different relationships between N Ireland & Scotland, not because I wish it but because it may happen anyway  

Particularly if JC enterers a coalition with the SNP

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1 minute ago, wooster said:

I was being ironic

I hope so. It's hard to tell nowadays as I am sure there are lots of people thinking that way, My view is that you can be a proud Englishman, happy with our Britishness and happy being a member of the EU. They are not incompatible.

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Herman - I like you but I don't agree with you or your view of the world.  As a democrat I would never seek to inhibit or restrict your contribution to the debate, not that it is in my gift anyway.  

We are all on the same side when it comes to democratic debate but you have to accept that you are wrong! 

 

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On 29/08/2019 at 18:08, Van wink said:

I messaged RTB to wish him all the best when I heard he had been ill,  last night he replied to say he was begining to get out of bed and improving. He also said he had been looking at the message board and having a laugh, so there you go. Good news anyway.

odd how you seem to have dropped this story

could it be that RTB is you, and there never was any hospital admission on the Princess Alexandra Cardiology ward

just you trying some wheeze to then have another dig because I 'didn't offer my regards'

.................or was not fooled, more like

rather a sick stunt to pull, and one that now exposed is liable to bring into question those who do have a genuine health problem

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12 minutes ago, Herman said:

In a nutshell you would be happy with the break up of the UK as a direct result of our decision to leave the EU?

I should be more concerned about the consequences of a piano falling on your head

more likely that than the UK leaving the EU

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18 minutes ago, Van wink said:

If the Supreme court upholds the decision of the High Court that it is "not a matter for the courts", I would hardly call that a "technicality'

Well we could call it something else if you prefer, but if they decide it is 'not a matter for the courst' it wouldn't alter the fact that Boris lied to the Queen.

It will also mean that, quite bizarrely, they have decided that there is no legal deterrent against a Prime Minister, once appointed, suspending a Parliament by deceit to avoid scruting and effectively operate as a dictator. That would be really scary and a very dramatic illustration of how precarious our democracy is.

Either way, as I said before, the opposition but primarily the SNP element emerge as winners - for them there is no downside its all grist to their mill whichever way it goes from here. Don't think the implications will be lost on Sinn Fein either, they already have a bit of an issue over their assembly being suspended for the last two years!

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It gets worse for poor Bertie by the minute it would seem

" If the government edited Yellowhammer before publication to say 'worst case' when it was actually the 'base case' (as per original highly similar leak) ministers would arguably be open to a 'contempt of parliament' charge "

no wonder they are running scared of having to reveal what is in the communications about closing Parliament

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16 minutes ago, Bill said:

It gets worse for poor Bertie by the minute it would seem

" If the government edited Yellowhammer before publication to say 'worst case' when it was actually the 'base case' (as per original highly similar leak) ministers would arguably be open to a 'contempt of parliament' charge "

no wonder they are running scared of having to reveal what is in the communications about closing Parliament

And why would they decide to redact just this paragraph from what was released? 

- Donald Trump would be unhappy to see any effect on fossil fuel industries?

- The general population might worry that what happens to refinery jobs because of a 0% import tariff could very well translate to losses of other types of jobs too? 

What a (convenient for the Government) shame that Parliament can't discuss this .... 

 

15. Facing EU tariffs makes petrol exports to the EU uncompetitive. Industry had plans to mitigate the impact on refinery margins and profitability but UK Government policy to set petrol import tariffs at 0% inadvertently undermines these plans. This leads to significant financial losses and announcement of two refinery closures (and transition to import terminals) and direct job losses (about 2000). Resulting strike action at refineries would lead to disruptions to fuel availability for 1-2 weeks in the regions directly supplied by the refineries.

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33 minutes ago, wooster said:

Herman - I like you but I don't agree with you or your view of the world.  As a democrat I would never seek to inhibit or restrict your contribution to the debate, not that it is in my gift anyway.  

We are all on the same side when it comes to democratic debate but you have to accept that you are wrong! 

 

Not going to happen I'm afraid. I might still end up on the losing side but I am on the right side. I only have to look at the Yellowhammer report to be able to put on my "I told you so" T-shirt.

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British Retail Consortium comments: 

The Yellowhammer document confirms what retailers have been saying for the last three years - fresh food availability will decrease, consumer choice will decrease, and prices will rise. This isn’t good for the British public and this isn’t good for British retailers. 

A no-deal Brexit in November represents the worst possible timing for the retail industry and the consumers it serves. 

Warehousing availability will be limited as retailers prepare for Black Friday and Christmas, many fresh fruit and vegetables will be out of season in the UK, and imports will be hampered by disruption through the Channel Straits that could reduce flow by up to 60% for up to three months. 

While retailers are doing all they can to prepare for a no-deal Brexit, it is impossible to completely mitigate the negative impact it would have - something the Government itself has acknowledged. 

The fact remains that a damaging, no-deal Brexit is in no-one’s interests and it is vital that a solution is found, and fast, that ensures frictionless tariff-free trade with the EU after our departure.”

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And Dominic Grieve : has a new Conservative Party leader campaign started already? 

 

" Even a partial release of the Yellowhammer documents is enough to show how deep the damage a no-deal exit from the EU would do. 

Boris Johnson cannot portray forcing an undemocratic no-deal on the country as patriotic. On the contrary it would be deeply damaging to our economic interests and to social cohesion. 

As a One Nation Conservative I am deeply fearful of the long-term damage a reckless approach - which knowingly risks prosperity, increases poverty and even threatens medical supplies - will do to both the people and our party. This must be stopped. 

As we cannot trust Boris Johnson to halt this calamity, we must trust the people. We must give the public the final say in a new referendum with the option of keeping our current deal as members of the EU.”

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2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Not going to happen I'm afraid. I might still end up on the losing side but I am on the right side. I only have to look at the Yellowhammer report to be able to put on my "I told you so" T-shirt.

Considering the establishment - the majority of MPs, the MSM, the civil servants, the luvvies and even the f*cking judges are mostly Remainiacs you should be amazed if you wind up on the losing side.

No matter what the result, you haven't been on the right side --- you've been taken for a mug by the establishment and history will prove it.

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The Headbashers on here won't see the funny side, but I was quite amused that the "source" in Number 10, presumably serving a Prime Minister who illegally lied to the queen to shut parliament down, in a bid to force through a policy nobody wants (unless you're incredibly dim) without scrutiny.... stated that Farage and Banks are not fit and proper persons.

I'm not being funny, but how much of a lowlife scumbag do you have to be for even BoJo's loyalists to consider you contemptible. That bar is set incredibly low and Farage and Banks don't even clear that.

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:


"But in its strongly worded written ruling on a legal challenge to prorogation by anti-Brexit campaigner Gina Miller, the High Court in London said that the prime minister’s decision to prorogue parliament and his advice to the Queen were “inherently political in nature and there are no legal standards against which to judge their legitimacy”. “It is not a matter for the courts,” their ruling adds"

 

If the Supreme court upholds the decision of the High Court that it is "not a matter for the courts", I would hardly call that a "technicality'

But as said before we must wait and see.

I would stick to posting up smears under various names hand crank - if only if it is something that you appear all too familiar with

otherwise

the decision by the Queen to close Parliament would not normally come under judicial review, but could be judged unlawful if it was done to block scrutiny of the executive - am important part of the UK's lawful democratic process

which basically came down to the Supreme Court ruling that it was the governments intention to block that scrutiny rather than what it claimed

so although the High Court deemed it merely a political matter the Supreme Court has ruled that as the advice given to the Queen was unlawful it is a judicial matter, the latter being the point on which this hangs

which explains the guff Gove came out wth earlier to defend not releasing the communications regarding the prorogation

great time to be alive for those who back democracy 🤗

"https://www.ft.com/content/eb1424a8-d473-11e9-8367-807ebd53ab77

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Considering the establishment - the majority of MPs, the MSM, the civil servants, the luvvies and even the f*cking judges are mostly Remainiacs you should be amazed if you wind up on the losing side.

Funny that because of brexit they are now the enemy to you but have been running the Tory establishment since the beginning of our form of democracy.

When those of us on the left complained about the poor deal we were getting from the said people we were called envious.

Make your minds up once and for all. 

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11 minutes ago, Jools said:

you've been taken for a mug by the establishment and history will prove it.

Says the guy with a picture of "Man of the people and champion of the common man" Nigel Farage as his avatar? The same Nigel Farage who never had to earn a damn thing in his life, and walked into a job in the City at 21 because his daddy had friends in high places.

A man who really takes it to the establishment and takes on tax dodgers by.... dodging his taxes and lying about an assassination attempt.

A man who is such a staunch opponent of the Europe gravy train, that he has been scrounging off it for 20 years. In fact, he even boasted about how to fiddle the expenses... but we've all been conned by the people with principles and Saint Nigel isn't a conman that you're too dense to see through, despite him being laughably transparent. God, you're truly pathetic.

image.png.6f62397342b382b31e270e622e013d89.png

Edited by kick it off

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6 minutes ago, Jools said:

Considering the establishment - the majority of MPs, the MSM, the civil servants, the luvvies and even the f*cking judges are mostly Remainiacs you should be amazed if you wind up on the losing side.

No matter what the result, you haven't been on the right side --- you've been taken for a mug by the establishment and history will prove it.

LOL, you are pretty clueless. You really don't see the bad people that you have attached yourself to. Anything that champions Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Robinson et al is clearly on the wrong side of history. Bad people, angry people and nothing good will come from them. 

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8 minutes ago, Surfer said:

And Dominic Grieve : has a new Conservative Party leader campaign started already? 

 

" Even a partial release of the Yellowhammer documents is enough to show how deep the damage a no-deal exit from the EU would do. 

Boris Johnson cannot portray forcing an undemocratic no-deal on the country as patriotic. On the contrary it would be deeply damaging to our economic interests and to social cohesion. 

As a One Nation Conservative I am deeply fearful of the long-term damage a reckless approach - which knowingly risks prosperity, increases poverty and even threatens medical supplies - will do to both the people and our party. This must be stopped. 

As we cannot trust Boris Johnson to halt this calamity, we must trust the people. We must give the public the final say in a new referendum with the option of keeping our current deal as members of the EU.”

That was much of what I said earlier. The Tory party will need to take it'self back to the middle ground and that will mean getting rid of the hapless Johnson and the nutters he has surrounded himself with.

I think Grieve and others will know that the upcoming election is lost so it might be better to let this ragbag of bigots and cranks destroy themselves, before wresting back the party. I expect the Tory conference to witness this battle being played out, as the dream of some all white isolated island selling souvenirs and garden ornaments to each other finally disappears over the horizon.

As also said, the weasels, stoats and ferrets currently occupying No 10 will soon be turfed out, along with the half witted Bertie. But don't expect it all to be glossed over. Just as at the end of WW2 there will need to be an expose of the guilty men if not some form of 'sanction.

And my suggestion to the brexit liars on here is don't imagine for one moment that because nothing seems to be happening nothing will. Democracy has ripped apart Johnson's lies. He won't be the last, be assured of that.

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British Medical Association comments :  Hope that pro-Brexit retirees are happy - 

" Here we see in black and white the Government warning of disruption to vital medicine supplies, a higher risk of disease outbreaks due to veterinary medicine supply issues, and UK pensioners in the EU being unable to access healthcare from 1 November if there is a no-deal Brexit. 

The warnings around social care providers folding within months of Brexit day are particularly concerning, having a huge impact on our most vulnerable patients and the wider health service in the depths of winter. ”

 

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11 minutes ago, Herman said:

LOL, you are pretty clueless. You really don't see the bad people that you have attached yourself to. Anything that champions Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Robinson et al is clearly on the wrong side of history. Bad people, angry people and nothing good will come from them. 

stop treating him as if he were not a joke figure

he has no more to add to this debate than Swindon

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1 minute ago, Surfer said:

British Medical Association comments :  Hope that pro-Brexit retirees are happy - 

" Here we see in black and white the Government warning of disruption to vital medicine supplies, a higher risk of disease outbreaks due to veterinary medicine supply issues, and UK pensioners in the EU being unable to access healthcare from 1 November if there is a no-deal Brexit. 

The warnings around social care providers folding within months of Brexit day are particularly concerning, having a huge impact on our most vulnerable patients and the wider health service in the depths of winter. ”

maybe that was the idea

get the daft b'stards to vote for you by filling their silly heads with a pile of bigoted nonsense

then have a cull as they cannot get medicines, care workers or hospital treatment

saves huge anounts of money keeping them alive and frees up houses and hospital beds into the bargain

perhaps master does know best 😆

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