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OT - EU straw poll...

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6 hours ago, Herman said:

I doubt the 52% will ever be happy, no matter what happens. 

I doubt the 52% are 52% anymore.

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On 21/08/2019 at 21:19, PurpleCanary said:

I haven't seen all the coverage, so this point may have been made. In case not, supposedly Corbyn's plan to to call a vote of no-confidence pretty much as soon a Parliament starts back up in very early September (the 3rd or 4th?). Political analysts think this will be a close vote if it happens then.

What may prompt some (Tories mainly) currently envisaging voting against Boris to instead sit on their hands will be the argument that perhaps he will pull a backstop rabbit out of the hat by September 20.

They would have to be foolish or naive to think that is possible, but sometimes people will cling to a lousy argument to avoid making a tough decision. And if a no-confidence vote was delayed until late September, even if it was then passed, the 14-day who-wants-to-be-prime-minister-period and the weeks needed to arrange a general election would ensure it was held well after October 31.

If in doubt, trust the FT. Its overage from Berlin and Paris makes it quite clear that Merkel and Macron have not moved an inch. Their fundamental red lines (two can play at that game...) on the Withdrawal Agreement and the backstop remain as scarlet as ever.

All that has happened is that the English media, and particularly the Brexit-supporting section, have again misinterpreted continental politics, through a combination of stupidity, insularity and wishful thinking.

In that sense Johnson has achieved nothing at all. And is not likely to. But, as said, this supposed new deadline of September 20, adds yet another complicating factor to be considered by the How-Do-We-Stop No-Deal/Brexit Brigade, which was already struggling to make up its mind what actually to do. In that sense Johnson has gained something.

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Can kicking and make believe is par for the course. 

However a week is a very long time in Brexit politics ! **** hits fan 1st week September.

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1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

I doubt the 52% are 52% anymore.

I think everyone knows this so any talk of a people's vote, a final say on any deal or just a simple halt and regroup gets shot down rather quickly. Unfortuanately over here, the leave media has the larger say and more ears in government, so until they have a rethink or admit to the people that they've made a massive error, I fear we are stuck with this thing called brexit.

Anyway, here's a joke, sort of, for our friends in Ireland.

"English person: did you hear about the irishman who...

Irish person: yeah, you were literally tricked by a bus."

 

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Bertie the Buffoon stood next to the open door on the plane.

Both Macron and Merkel had told him if he jumped he would be killed.

"Pifflle paffle, wiffle waffle" Bertie had replied

After checking that the plane was flying at 10,OOO Bertie asked that the plane be taken up to 15,000 so he could jump from there, again without a parachute.

"But how will that help ? they both asked.

"It will give me more time to come up with an answer" replied Bertie confidently

 

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

 But, as said, this supposed new deadline of September 20, adds yet another complicating factor to be considered by the How-Do-We-Stop No-Deal/Brexit Brigade, which was already struggling to make up its mind what actually to do. In that sense Johnson has gained something.

eh ?

you have not the slightest idea what has been agreed and what the plan is -in fact outside of a small group none of us have, bar the certainty that there is a majority in both houses who want to stop 'no brexit'

however even with a majority that will mean a lot of 'horse trading' as each party and MP seeks to defend if not improve their lot - so there is no more a struggle than the everyday dog eat dog of politics and just because they haven't send you their plans tied up with a pretty pink bow does nt mean nothing has been agreed etc

a ky question is still wne best to act, as the later it is left the more support for ending te nonsense will grow, if only that bigots who have been the strongest supporters of leaving will be the most vunerable to the consequences of the UK leaving the EU..... it's them, after all. who are most dependent on medication and they who are the weakest should it come to physical confrontation over food supplies

so it could be re-run of The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2019

something I would strongly suggest some of the nupties on here have a read up on as opposed to regurgitating the usual ill informed sh yte they had read deom the barn wall

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I know poor hand crank doesn't really understand tis but at times his stupidity goes to a level that would normally be thought unobtainable (excluding poor mouse brain)

 

A new YouGov poll has found that none of the potential candidates to become a ‘temporary Prime Minister’ in a ‘Government of National Unity’ achieve the backing of more than a quarter of the public:

  • Ken Clarke – 25%
  • Harriet Harman – 19%
  • Jeremy Corbyn – 15%
  • Jo Swinson – 13%
  • Caroline Lucas – 13%

It’s even more damning for Jeremy Corbyn when you look at net figures. The person most likely to be installed as a ‘National Unity Prime Minister’ has the lowest approval of any official opposition leader, ever.

 

the flaw in Hand crank's guff is that any ‘temporary Prime Minister’ in a ‘Government of National Unity’ would not require the backing of the public, a fact that seems to have eluded poor hand crank's thought processes

 

ps keep an eye on the airport as Bertie returns waving a piece of paper - ;pees off you fat slime' will be the wording

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Jools said:

Yes, I see, Desperate Dan and your posts today have convinced me that I was wrong to vote Brexit 😀

You're a f*cking idiot.

Wow. Jools calling me a f*cking idiot. My missus is due back from a meal and drinks with the girls so you might be half right.

But you calling me an idiot? Where do we go from here? Gemma Collins calling Stephen Hawking stupid? Susan Boyle telling Usain Bolt he's slow? Alan Brazil suggesting Kate Moss is looking a little bit tubby?

Jools. Calling me an idiot. Just let that sink in. I hope someone knows the way back through this looking glass. 

Edited by canarydan23

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2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:
On 21/08/2019 at 20:19, PurpleCanary said:

I haven't seen all the coverage, so this point may have been made. In case not, supposedly Corbyn's plan to to call a vote of no-confidence pretty much as soon a Parliament starts back up in very early September (the 3rd or 4th?). Political analysts think this will be a close vote if it happens then.

What may prompt some (Tories mainly) currently envisaging voting against Boris to instead sit on their hands will be the argument that perhaps he will pull a backstop rabbit out of the hat by September 20.

They would have to be foolish or naive to think that is possible, but sometimes people will cling to a lousy argument to avoid making a tough decision. And if a no-confidence vote was delayed until late September, even if it was then passed, the 14-day who-wants-to-be-prime-minister-period and the weeks needed to arrange a general election would ensure it was held well after October 31.

If in doubt, trust the FT. Its overage from Berlin and Paris makes it quite clear that Merkel and Macron have not moved an inch. Their fundamental red lines (two can play at that game...) on the Withdrawal Agreement and the backstop remain as scarlet as ever.

All that has happened is that the English media, and particularly the Brexit-supporting section, have again misinterpreted continental politics, through a combination of stupidity, insularity and wishful thinking.

In that sense Johnson has achieved nothing at all. And is not likely to. But, as said, this supposed new deadline of September 20, adds yet another complicating factor to be considered by the How-Do-We-Stop No-Deal/Brexit Brigade, which was already struggling to make up its mind what actually to do. In that sense Johnson has gained something.

I would imagine the idea of a last minute deal, based on a backstop-related breakthrough, will get shot down by the EU before a vote of confidence happens.

It should be a fairly simple target to hit!

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14 minutes ago, Len said:

I would imagine the idea of a last minute deal, based on a backstop-related breakthrough, will get shot down by the EU before a vote of confidence happens.

It should be a fairly simple target to hit!

One might argue that Merkel's '30 day' remark has thrown Boris a lifeline. Difficult for Tory remainers (who all claim to be leave-with-a-dealers) to justify chucking him out beforehand, & Merkel can't really backtrack without making it look like No Deal is her fault.

 

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3 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Terrible spelling, uncalledfor expletives, childish. Not funny or clever.

We don't critique Bill's posts these days. 

3 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

 

 

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6 minutes ago, ron obvious said:
27 minutes ago, Len said:

I would imagine the idea of a last minute deal, based on a backstop-related breakthrough, will get shot down by the EU before a vote of confidence happens.

It should be a fairly simple target to hit!

One might argue that Merkel's '30 day' remark has thrown Boris a lifeline. Difficult for Tory remainers (who all claim to be leave-with-a-dealers) to justify chucking him out beforehand, & Merkel can't really backtrack without making it look like No Deal is her fault.

It will probably be one of the EU bigwigs who stymie any plan during initial talks (which should already be underway?). Any suggestion to cross one of the red lines will allow them to jump in.

I think the most obvious solution to the NI problem would involve Norwegian style border crossings and computerised pre-authorisation. But three years later nothing concrete appears to be in sight.

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

eh ?

you have not the slightest idea what has been agreed and what the plan is -in fact outside of a small group none of us have, bar the certainty that there is a majority in both houses who want to stop 'no brexit'

Which includes you not knowing what has been agreed. Yet this hasn't stopped you making a fool of yourself daily for the past three years. 

Still claiming we're not leaving the EU are you? Still claiming May's deal was always meant to keep us in the EU?

If there is a majority who wanted to stop Brexit' then why did they vote for the triggering of A50? That was the best possible chance to stop Brexit' if that was the plan

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7 minutes ago, Len said:

It will probably be one of the EU bigwigs who stymie any plan during initial talks (which should already be underway?). Any suggestion to cross one of the red lines will allow them to jump in.

I think the most obvious solution to the NI problem would involve Norwegian style border crossings and computerised pre-authorisation. But three years later nothing concrete appears to be in sight.

Well I would have thought Boris could perhaps use the time honored can-kicking routine ("just putting some final bits of research into our 3,485 page submission for your perusal. That's just the summary you understand -we'll need a couple more weeks for the full submission. But don't worry, where there's a will ...) to, er, ensure the job has been done thoroughly, no stones left unturned, all avenues explored ...

 

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5 minutes ago, ron obvious said:
21 minutes ago, Len said:

It will probably be one of the EU bigwigs who stymie any plan during initial talks (which should already be underway?). Any suggestion to cross one of the red lines will allow them to jump in.

I think the most obvious solution to the NI problem would involve Norwegian style border crossings and computerised pre-authorisation. But three years later nothing concrete appears to be in sight.

Well I would have thought Boris could perhaps use the time honored can-kicking routine ("just putting some final bits of research into our 3,485 page submission for your perusal. That's just the summary you understand -we'll need a couple more weeks for the full submission. But don't worry, where there's a will ...) to, er, ensure the job has been done thoroughly, no stones left unturned, all avenues explored ...

You could be right there. In that case, perhaps we can expect some of the juicy details to be leaked?!

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It is very nearly game, set and match to Boris 

The idea of a government of national unity has been laughed off the pages of public opinion as the opposition can't even unite around a credible leader. 

In Europe Merkel and Macron have given Johnson more time to run down the clock The Irish were not even invited to join the discussion about their future. 

At home, Rebels like Boyles (sp?) Are backtracking on the idea of voting against the government. And the Tories are pulling away in the polls. 

None of this should come as a surprise as I have argued right from the beginning our best negotiating position is from the threat of leaving with no deal. Had we done this we would have saved three years and would be in a far better negotiating position than now

But with a bit of hard work and mental toughness we can still retrieve a good outcome. 

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I would agree that no deal is more likely as it is the default position and the remainers can’t get their  act together. Hence I  and a lot of people and businesses have chosen to take money out of the UK and invest in the EU instead which has proved correct given the weakness of sterling and the threat of no deal brexit to the UK economy

it is a sad state of affairs though that the best negotiating position Boris and RTB can come up with after 3 years is self harm. The brexiteers are thereby admitting that the UK has a relatively weak bargaining position as the remainders have always said  

No deal brexit is a political issue in the UK but not in the people in the EU as business and majority recognition that the EU is more important than the UK  

it may be that the remainders best Long Term position is a no deal brexit as the impact of no deal brexit will strengthen the argument for a close relationship with the EU subsequently  The problem is that for some people  the threat of and actual no deal brexit have real negative consequences  However for the majority brexit is a slow puncture rather than a blow out so they are worse off but like Ricardo not so much worse off that it overcomes their ego and xenophobia  

The brexiteers may well win the short term battle otherwise risk destroying the Tory party short term but no deal brexit risks destroying the tories long term  The best for Boris is that no deal is stopped by the remainers so he can say no brexit was not his fault but does not have to deal with no deal brexit  

whatever happens this will go on for years given the time it takes to negotiate deals and the brexiteers will still be miserable ignorant gits until they die out as they find out that they’re are worse off and have no practical benefits from Brexit whatsoever  

 

 

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Interesting that Brexiters think that threatening to destroy their own country is a clever negotiating tactic. Seems insane to me, but what do I know. 

Maybe we should call their bluff and give them what they want. 

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8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

It is very nearly game, set and match to Boris 

In Europe Merkel and Macron have given Johnson more time to run down the clock The Irish were not even invited to join the discussion about their future. 

OK .... well I guess..

Or you could reflect reality, there was no discussion about Ireland, Boris got nothing but a pat on the head like a sheepdog. 

 

Merkel insisted on Thursday that she had not given the UK a strict 30-day deadline, but instead wanted to highlight how short time was before the UK’s planned exit date of 31 October.

Any new proposals to deal with the issue of the Northern Ireland border should fit into the existing framework withdrawal agreement already negotiated, Macron said.

Johnson has repeatedly said the backstop – an insurance plan to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland – must go in order to avoid a no-deal exit. He argues it could leave the UK tied to the EU indefinitely.

But Macron said the backstop was both an indispensable guarantee for the stability of Ireland and a means of protecting the integrity of the European single market, and that any new UK ideas had to respect that.

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