Jump to content
Note to existing users - password reset is required Read more... ×
Fuzzar

OT - EU straw poll...

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, paul moy said:

I could envisage a system whereby if a club is willing to pay a massive fee (maybe over 50m) for a player then that player would automatically be granted a working visa. 

Oh well, then as long as it's alright for the Man Utd / City / Liverpool / Spurs and Arsenal's of the world we are good to go eh? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's already agreed that existing EU workers will be able to remain in the country after October, so this really is a non-story from the Project Fear playbook.  And as Paul points out, existing non-EU footballers have little problem in obtaining work visas already

No it isn't - in the event of no deal.

Boris has said something to that effect but he is a serial liar so that is meaningless especially as the Home Secretary has made abundantly clear she intends to shut the doors on 1st Nov and the Home Office has been demonstrably making life difficult for those EU citizens already here who wish to exercise their rights to obtain settled status before 31st October - meaning that huge numbers of them will have no legal right to be here post Brexit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Surfer said:

Oh well, then as long as it's alright for the Man Utd / City / Liverpool / Spurs and Arsenal's of the world we are good to go eh? 

That is the situation with non-EU players/workers now, so we are merely making the same rules for EU workers.

The reason we have voted to get rid of freedom of movement is to give priority to UK workers while allowing access to foreign workers if we need them.  This will stop cheap workers flooding into the UK and cutting average worker salaries, thus making UK workers better paid in the future than they would otherwise be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

No it isn't - in the event of no deal.

Boris has said something to that effect but he is a serial liar so that is meaningless especially as the Home Secretary has made abundantly clear she intends to shut the doors on 1st Nov and the Home Office has been demonstrably making life difficult for those EU citizens already here who wish to exercise their rights to obtain settled status before 31st October - meaning that huge numbers of them will have no legal right to be here post Brexit.

You are wrong and purely scaremongering. All businesses would require workers to remain initially and no government is going to stop that, or chaos would ensue. That is pure commonsense. 

Settled status is a different issue but we are not suddenly going to start kicking people out of the country in the short-term.

 

Edited by paul moy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, paul moy said:

You are wrong and purely scaremongering. All businesses would require workers to remain initially and no government is going to stop that, or chaos would ensue. That is pure commonsense. 

I am not wrong and why on earth would you think this government would show any common sense - if they had done that we wouldn't be in this position in the first place!!!

Edited by Creative Midfielder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Creative Midfielder said:

I am not wrong and why on earth would you think this government would show any common sene - if they had done that we wouldn't be in this position in the first place!!!

You are definitely a remainer.  No commonsense and totally illogical.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The reason we have voted to get rid of freedom of movement is to give priority to UK workers while allowing access to foreign workers if we need them.  This will stop cheap workers flooding into the UK and cutting average worker salaries, thus making UK workers better paid in the future than they would otherwise be.

But don't you realise it is the lower paid workers who have flooded into Britain that have caused the economic change. The building boom could not have happened without Poles etc working for half what the Brits will.

You yourself Paul think that that too many manual workers earn too much money, you've said it yourself.

The majority of people in this nation do not give a monkeys about other people. As long as their life is OK they are happy. That is why we have different governments and parties. Thepeople who elect governments are not people like us who have strict ideas but those who vote for the ones who look after them the best, in their opinion.

 
Edited by keelansgrandad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I am not wrong and why on earth would you think this government would show any common sene - if they had done that we wouldn't be in this position in the first place!!!

The government did not show commonsense under May, purely because they were not intent on leaving.  Boris is intent on leaving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, paul moy said:

You are definitely a remainer.  No commonsense and totally illogical.

I am a remainer and you are a total idiot - as usual you ignore the facts, make ridiculous delusional statements and when challenged simply resort to insults.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

The reason we have voted to get rid of freedom of movement is to give priority to UK workers while allowing access to foreign workers if we need them.  This will stop cheap workers flooding into the UK and cutting average worker salaries, thus making UK workers better paid in the future than they would otherwise be.

But don't you realise it is the lower paid workers who have flooded into Britain that have caused the economic change. The building boom could not have happened without Poles etc working for half what the Brits will.

You yourself Paul think that that too many manual workers earn too much money, you've said it yourself.

The majority of people in this nation do not give a monkeys about other people. As long as their life is OK they are happy. That is why we have different governments and parties. Thepeople who elect governments are not people like us who have strict ideas but those who vote for the ones who look after them the best, in their opinion.

 

Lower paid workers from overseas have cost us a fortune in benefits and pay little tax, if any. This will stop and enable us to maintain our own standards of living.  If we do need additional workers we can  issue work visas.

The UK is not a charity, but we have been acting effectively as a charity to the EU and other countries with membership fees, foreign aid etc for decades under all shades of government. We are now running national debt at 2-3 trillion and this obviously has to be addressed as a priority above charitable status. 

Edited by paul moy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh that argument again, how does anyone working in the UK (or US) not “pay any tax?” 

Are they paid in cash? Do they not buy anything with the money that they are paid? 

 

Back on the football, if everyone with a contract will automatically get a Visa, what about if they are transferred or ask for a contract extension? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/08/2019 at 13:05, Creative Midfielder said:

What you mean is you're been ignoring the answers for the last three and half years but I'll give you my personal priority one last time as opposed to the full list of other benefits both economic and other rights that come with the EU which have also been stated on here many time by many different people.

Freedom of movement - the right to live and work wherever I choose within the EU.

Is that clear and simple enough for you?

1

And there it is above -- The single reply to my question to Remaniacs on here three days ago:  'What are the tangible benefits of the UK remaining in the EU?' 

Well, CM, freedom of movement has been discussed previously in this thread so many times that I'm going to be rendered comatose if people insist on repeating the tired old mantra.

I'm adamant you Remaniacs will eventually try to maintain some semblance of truth and accuracy in what you think & write, but I won't hold my breath.

We will NOT lose the freedom to live, work, study, sh@g, play tiddlywinks or anything else in EU countries --- All that will be required is modest paperwork -- You know, modest paperwork that doesn't hinder our American cousins and modest paperwork that didn't hinder our forefathers before the EU existed.

I traveled and worked around Europe in 1975 with no restrictions.

 

Shut up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Oh that argument again, how does anyone working in the UK (or US) not “pay any tax?” 

Are they paid in cash? Do they not buy anything with the money that they are paid? 

 

Back on the football, if everyone with a contract will automatically get a Visa, what about if they are transferred or ask for a contract extension? 

startrek-picard-facepalm-700x341.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Oh that argument again, how does anyone working in the UK (or US) not “pay any tax?” 

Are they paid in cash? Do they not buy anything with the money that they are paid? 

 

Back on the football, if everyone with a contract will automatically get a Visa, what about if they are transferred or ask for a contract extension? 

When you net off any tax against benefits most low paid are no financial benefit to UK PLC, and yes, many will get paid cash in hand on which tax, NI can be avoided. Much of that money they get is then sent outside the UK and not actually spent here, so again no benefit to the UK and it is yet another negative effect on the pound.

If a player is transferred or asks for a contract extension then the new system would obviously apply.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, paul moy said:

When you net off any tax against benefits most low paid are no financial benefit to UK PLC, and yes, many will get paid cash in hand on which tax, NI can be avoided. Much of that money they get is then sent outside the UK and not actually spent here*, so again no benefit to the UK and it is yet another negative effect on the pound.

If a player is transferred or asks for a contract extension then the new system would obviously apply.  

 

 

*citation needed.

Don't bother looking, you won't find it. You can't prove made up bullsh*t you mouth-breathing Ret@rd.

I'm guessing you were worried your PinkUn Ret@rd Crown was under threat by the banal dribbling we've had from Jools these past few pages so you thought you oughta contribute something equally cretinous to stave off his concerted assault on your title.

Edited by canarydan23
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

*citation needed.

Don't bother looking, you won't find it. You can't prove made up bullsh*t you mouth-breathing Ret@rd.

I'm guessing you were worried your PinkUn Ret@rd Crown was under threat by the banal dribbling we've had from Jools these past few pages so you thought you oughta contribute something equally cretinous to stave off his concerted assault on your title.

Calm down, Danny boy -- You'll be wanting a fistfight next 😀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brexit contradiction number 10.

Any immigrants that can simultaneously steal all the jobs, work cash in hand, not pay tax, claim loads of benefits and send all their money back home should be applauded for their ingenuity. 

English bigotry will finish us all. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Van wink said:

 

I haven't seen all the coverage, so this point may have been made. In case not, supposedly Corbyn's plan to to call a vote of no-confidence pretty much as soon a Parliament starts back up in very early September (the 3rd or 4th?). Political analysts think this will be a close vote if it happens then.

What may prompt some (Tories mainly) currently envisaging voting against Boris to instead sit on their hands will be the argument that perhaps he will pull a backstop rabbit out of the hat by September 20.

They would have to be foolish or naive to think that is possible, but sometimes people will cling to a lousy argument to avoid making a tough decision. And if a no-confidence vote was delayed until late September, even if it was then passed, the 14-day who-wants-to-be-prime-minister-period and the weeks needed to arrange a general election would ensure it was held well after October 31.

============

Its Peston so likely to be way off beam😀 Interesting read nonetheless and reflects something of your post.

"Forget the battle between government and opposition, what matters most right now is the fight between Boris Johnson and his consigliere Cummings on one hand against a minority of senior Conservative MPs led by Philip Hammond, David Gauke and Greg Clark - the so-called Gaukeward Squad - over whether a no-deal Brexit is preferable to a Brexit delay.

At stake is pretty much everything from whether Johnson survives as PM, to whether the UK ever leaves the EU.

Here are the battle lines.

The Gaukeward Squad is implacably and irreconcilably detached from Johnson and Cummings, on two matters of judgement:

First, they regard a no-deal Brexit as the great looming catastrophe for country and party - where Johnson and Cummings see the risks to country as exaggerated, and fear their party would be annihilated if there were a further postponement of Brexit.

Second, Hammond and co do not believe there are any realistic circumstances in which the EU would agree to Johnson's request to dump the backstop - the insurance plan to keep the border on the island of Ireland open. Whereas Johnson and Cummings think there is a chance the EU would move but only if EU leaders were confident that Johnson is in office and IN CHARGE for the duration.

Here is the nightmare of an assessment MPs from all parties must make: in siding with Hammond and the Gaukeward Squad, would they be throwing the Brexit baby out with the no-deal bathwater, as Johnson avers.

Or would they be draining the no-deal swamp and leaving behind the golden negotiated Brexit that might one day re-unite a fractious UK, as the Gaukeward Squad would have it?

Some MPs may be influenced by the feedback from Johnson's diplomatic missions in the coming days to Berlin, Paris and the G7 group of leading nations in Biarritz. 

But those missions will not be decisive, in part because this can't and won't be settled by rational argument, but by faith.

This is is a quasi-religious war in which reason has a role, but as a weapon not an olive branch.

Not long to wait however for the moment of apotheosis.

We will know at some juncture between September 3 and September 12, when Parliament resumes temporarily before party conferences, whether MPs have the will and the means to legislate against a no-deal Brexit, and failing that, whether they have the will and the means to evict Johnson from 10 Downing Street.

To be clear, we may not in just those few days see the end of the process to stymie Johnson, but we'll know if any of the gambits are credible.

Till then, Tusk, Juncker, Merkel, Macron and Varadkar have no incentive to be flexible on the backstop. 

Why should they be conciliatory to a British PM who may soon be an irrelevance? In fact, since they would rather the UK never leaves the EU, all their incentives are to stand firm against him.

Only if Johnson survives until September 12 would EU leaders actually face a definitive and irreversible decision whether to negotiate with him on the backstop during four insanely intense weeks before the EU council of October 17-18. 

Or - if that for them would be an impossible betrayal of Ireland - whether they should consider measures to soften the harshest impact of a no-deal Brexit.

Here is how to think about quite what a burden rests on Tory MPs - and others - when they return from their holidays in a few days.

If they back Johnson's no-to-the-backstop stance, they may well end up with a no-deal Brexit, but there's a slim chance that at the last they'll get the negotiated Brexit many of them crave.

Johnson probably delivers some kind of Brexit, and perhaps sees off the threat to the Tories of Farage and the Brexit Party.

By contrast, if they back Hammond's no-to-no-deal-Brexit, they may avoid the most precipitate and harshest of departures from the EU - but what flows from that would be anyone’s guess.

It could be the end of Brexit, it could be the end of the Tory Party.

Or maybe not."

VW, you might almost think Pesto has since read my original post, given what he is now saying this morning:

 

Striking that Merkel has pulled rug from under ⁦@PhilipHammondUK⁩, the Gaukeward Squad and much of anti-no-deal posse by saying there is negotiation to be had in next 30 days on how to eliminate backstop. No wonder ⁦@BorisJohnson⁩ looks happy'

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, paul moy said:

If a player is transferred or asks for a contract extension then the new system would obviously apply.  

As the non-EU player example you mentioned has caused several transfers not to happen, as the player was “not exceptional enough” if we later wanted to sell Zimmermann to Arsenal for example, we can’t as he’s not a full Germany international? Or we can’t extend his contract as an incentive to keep him here, either? 

Thank goodness we extended all the first team squad contracts this summer to avoid any immediate issues .....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Queensbury rules?

However much I'd love to slap you upside the head, Dan, violence is not the answer 😀

Boris is doing what the referendum voters decided upon, backed up by the manifesto of 2017 and the parliamentary votes to exercise Art. 50 -- The democratic process is back on track, despite everything you and your fellow authoritarian europhile fellow travelers could do to derail it -- There are leading Remainiacs acknowledging that the debate to Remain has been lost.

It’s about time the rest of you recognised that reality and moved on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Jools said:

However much I'd love to slap you upside the head, Dan, violence is not the answer 😀

Boris is doing what the referendum voters decided upon, backed up by the manifesto of 2017 and the parliamentary votes to exercise Art. 50 -- The democratic process is back on track, despite everything you and your fellow authoritarian europhile fellow travelers could do to derail it -- There are leading Remainiacs acknowledging that the debate to Remain has been lost.

It’s about time the rest of you recognised that reality and moved on.

At least you spelled Remainiacs correctly this time.

Also, you're already what normally happens when someone takes too many blows to the head. I dread to think what happens when someone who presents as a person who has taken too many blows to the head takes a few more blows to the head. You already struggle with shoelaces, I guess Velcro would end up beyond you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

No it isn't - in the event of no deal.

Boris has said something to that effect but he is a serial liar so that is meaningless especially as the Home Secretary has made abundantly clear she intends to shut the doors on 1st Nov and the Home Office has been demonstrably making life difficult for those EU citizens already here who wish to exercise their rights to obtain settled status before 31st October - meaning that huge numbers of them will have no legal right to be here post Brexit.

None of this is true

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Herman said:

Brexit contradiction number 10.

Any immigrants that can simultaneously steal all the jobs, work cash in hand, not pay tax, claim loads of benefits and send all their money back home should be applauded for their ingenuity. 

English bigotry will finish us all. 

With all the sincerity I can possibly muster I would suggest its time for you to relocate, Herman -- You're a Europhile and an Anglophobe who is clearly unhappy residing in this country.

I wouldn't stay in a place where I wasn't happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

The reason we have voted to get rid of freedom of movement is to give priority to UK workers while allowing access to foreign workers if we need them.  This will stop cheap workers flooding into the UK and cutting average worker salaries, thus making UK workers better paid in the future than they would otherwise be.

But don't you realise it is the lower paid workers who have flooded into Britain that have caused the economic change. The building boom could not have happened without Poles etc working for half what the Brits will.

You yourself Paul think that that too many manual workers earn too much money, you've said it yourself.

The majority of people in this nation do not give a monkeys about other people. As long as their life is OK they are happy. That is why we have different governments and parties. Thepeople who elect governments are not people like us who have strict ideas but those who vote for the ones who look after them the best, in their opinion.

 

I guess this explains why Labour are nowhere in the polls, outstripped by LibDems and led by a man who will never be PM

And all cheap workers have achieved is cut the wage rates of low skilled Britains while increasing pressure on public services

I'm quite surprised that a a trade unionist you don't stick up for the people that kept you in office

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jools said:

I wouldn't stay in a place where I wasn't happy.

So you were happy with the UK in the EU. Cool story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

So you were happy with the UK in the EU. Cool story.

I have more than one residence, Danny 😀 Whereas, Hermy, likely lives in his mother's basement.

Edited by Jools

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Jools said:

I have more than one residence, Danny 😀

And you stay in one that is and has been in the EU for some time, yes?

Herman, I've got another contradiction for your list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I am a remainer and you are a total idiot - as usual you ignore the facts, make ridiculous delusional statements and when challenged simply resort to insults.

Seriously? Just after you posted untruths. The derangement is high in this one

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×