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OT - EU straw poll...

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

We actually do more export trade with the USA than the EU.  We do import more from the EU but this can be corrected after Brexit as this is not a situation that is desirable.

From google:

"The U.S. exported $125.9 billion of goods and services to the UK, making it the UK's 2nd largest source of imports. The U.S. imported $110 billion in goods and services from the UK; the U.S. is by far the UK's largest export market."

About 44% of UK exports in goods and services went to other countries in the EU in 2017— £274 billion out of £616 billion total exports.

IS $110 billion by far larger than £274 billion - I don't think so you fool @paul moy

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46 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Again, no, because the USA is our largest export market.   The EU sending us the largest amount of imports is hardly a benefit, because it negatively affects our balance of payments and exchange rate. That will thankfully be reduced in the future not least because many people including myself are boycotting EU goods, and of course due to the US FTA it will also diminish.

So what you're saying is that Purple was correct and you were wrong. 😀

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29 minutes ago, Jools said:

Oh look it's Desperate Dan 😍

Three and a half years and I'm still waiting for answers to the following question: What are the tangible benefits of the UK remaining in the EU?

Do you have ANYTHING but tripe, supposition and desperation, Dan?

What you mean is you're been ignoring the answers for the last three and half years but I'll give you my personal priority one last time as opposed to the full list of other benefits both economic and other rights that come with the EU which have also been stated on here many time by many different people.

Freedom of movement - the right to live and work wherever I choose within the EU.

Is that clear and simple enough for you?

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58 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Typical negative abusive rubbish from a remoaner who simply cannot accept democracy.

So everything in your post was inaccurate?

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16 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

🤣 🤣 Paul, you truly are the idiot's idiot.

Suggest you stop wasting everybody's time on here and sign up for some economics night classes in the autumn  :classic_biggrin:

and that is his intent... to waste everyon'es time

so you might have to review who really is the idiot here

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3 hours ago, ricardo said:

True, but Mrs R has just made the decision to go the other way.

oh dear

she's not started wearing tweeds and smoking a pipe has she ?

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54 minutes ago, Jools said:

Oh look it's Desperate Dan 😍

Three and a half years and I'm still waiting for answers to the following question: What are the tangible benefits of the UK remaining in the EU?

Do you have ANYTHING but tripe, supposition and desperation, Dan?

You've had your answers but cognitive dissonance prevents you from accepting them. If someone tells me 3+3 is 6 but I think it's 7, I can't claim that I'm still waiting for an answer to 3+3.

Sadly for you, the truth is what it is, not what you want it to be.

Honestly, read into Dunning-Kruger; you're the theory personified. And if you digest it with an open mind you can come to terms with the fact that you're not as bright as you think you are and from there, a long road of self-improvement awaits.

Having said that, they say ignorance is bliss so it might make more sense for you to remain in the perpetual **** your life must be if that maxim is correct.

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2 hours ago, Jools said:

Laid up after ruptured archilles op, Hermington...

Bear with me 😀

I used to have a sense of empathy. Not sure what happened to it. 

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Bill said:

oh dear

she's not started wearing tweeds and smoking a pipe has she ?

Might have been able to dry. Thor banging his hammer and pyssing down up here on the N.Norfolk riviera ☔⚡🌂

Edited by ricardo

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Just now, Surfer said:

Should have gone to Suffolk, but probably not wise to mention that...

😖

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, paul moy said:

Again, no, because the USA is our largest export market.   The EU sending us the largest amount of imports is hardly a benefit, because it negatively affects our balance of payments and exchange rate. That will thankfully be reduced in the future not least because many people including myself are boycotting EU goods, and of course due to the US FTA it will also diminish.

Here are real statistics - UK exports 118 Billion Pounds to the US and 289 Billion Pounds to the other EU member states. So no, it's not our biggest export market - we'd have to at least double it just to reach a similar sales volume to a similar size population. And what we primarily sell to the the EU isn't what America wants or needs to purchase more of - cars, petroleum and chemicals (as they have their own already).

https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

Your boycott analogy is akin to me having a large balance of trade deficit with my grocery store at the same time I have a small trade surplus with my bank. So I've decided not to buy groceries in future and I'll try and barter for those instead of cash from my employer. Financial illiteracy. 

Edited by Surfer
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1 minute ago, Surfer said:

Here are real statistics - UK exports 118 Billion Pounds to the US and 289 Billion Pounds to the other EU member states. So no, it's not our biggest export market - we'd have to at least double it just to reach the similar sales volume to a similar size population. And what we primarily sell isn't what America wants or needs to purchase - cars, petroleum and chemicals (as they have their own already) 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/articles/whodoestheuktradewith/2017-02-21

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281807/largest-export-commodities-of-the-united-kingdom-uk/

Your boycott analogy is akin to having a large balance of trade deficit with my grocery store and a small trade surplus with my bank. So I've decided not to buy groceries in future and I'll try and barter for those instead of cash from my employer. Financial illiteracy. 

So what you're saying is that Purple was correct and Paul was incorrect. 😀

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Brexit, especially a NoDeal Brexit is for many simply a faith or religion with a promised afterlife. Absolutely no point arguing rational secular facts against the true faith ! The fact that some as above can't even get unassailable facts correct (or argue 1+1=3 to try and twist them) only goes to prove the point.

There are almost no positives to Brexit for the vast majority of the population but I suspect it's a lesson that they will need to be learn the hard way. The only consistent argument that I've heard for Brexit is to turn us into a US style economy. Sink or swim. No or few subsidies. 2 weeks paid leave. A barest  minimum safety net. Hope you've saved for a pension! Will generate a dynamic economy but is the polar opposite of the protectionist policies that most Brexiters want.

 

Here endeth the lesson!

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3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The EU is far and away the UK's largest trading partner.

To be fair, there is one sector in which the UK imports more from the US than from the EU, and it is that of Really Very Stupid Politico-Economic Ideas.

  • Haha 1

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1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

You've had your answers but cognitive dissonance prevents you from accepting them. If someone tells me 3+3 is 6 but I think it's 7, I can't claim that I'm still waiting for an answer to 3+3.

Sadly for you, the truth is what it is, not what you want it to be.

Honestly, read into Dunning-Kruger; you're the theory personified. And if you digest it with an open mind you can come to terms with the fact that you're not as bright as you think you are and from there, a long road of self-improvement awaits.

Having said that, they say ignorance is bliss so it might make more sense for you to remain in the perpetual **** your life must be if that maxim is correct.

 

😀 Where the f*ck do you as a rabid Remaniac find the gall to accuse Brexiteers of cognitive dissonance, ffs? Do you even know what it means?

cognitive dissonance
noun Psychology
 
noun: cognitive dissonance
  1. the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioural decisions and attitude change.

A term used in psychology by psychologists ---  Here, have this excellent article by Sean Walsh who has a doctorate in ... wait for it .... philosophy 😀👉  http://commentcentral.co.uk/remainer-cognitive-dissonance-has-collapsed-into-madness/

 

Remainer cognitive dissonance has collapsed into madness

Proposals for a government of national unity are the latest symptom of the Remain insurgency’s breakdown in cognitive dissonance, which is rapidly collapsing into madness, says Sean Walsh.

The game of Brexit chess finds the Remain Insurgency in zugzwang. It has no decent move left. Soon its leaders will upend the board having attempted, and failed, to persuade the rest of us that its Knight is actually a Queen and that its opponent’s Rook can only function as a Pawn. This is where we are: the Insurgency has decided at the last minute that it has the right to rewrite the rules of the game.

The Insurgency’s development of a fantasy constitution is almost funny. Where there is actual precedent it is to be ignored and where there is no precedent it is to be invented by fiat. The Insurgency’s representatives in Parliament are offering options which are plausible only when stated ambiguously and which become ludicrous when specified. Almost funny, but not quite. Remainer insanity is fast becoming a threat to the social and political order.

One of the more obtuse Remain contentions is that their methods could never amount to a “coup” because those who would implement them are elected. This is unsustainable. Coups will normally evolve from within an existing political dispensation. In a democracy such a dispensation will involve a finely calibrated separation of powers, and a coup occurs when one part of the balancing act successfully aggresses against another. It is perfectly intelligible to suggest that the legislature can launch a coup against the executive, and vice versa. That the participants are elected is irrelevant, more so when they have ben elected on a dishonest prospectus.

 The Insurgency aggressions seem likely to take either an unleaded or full-blooded form (or possibly both).

The unleaded version would be to somehow dissolve the executive in the legislature by seizing control of the Commons order of business and then initiating legislation to prevent a “no deal” exit. Bring it on. If the Grieve cabal attempts this it will be forced to give up the kindergarten language of the Commons motion in favour of the adult semantics of actual statute. It will become very apparent and very quickly that what they are insisting on is not a “deal” but a treaty, one intended to carry the UK’s supplicant status over into the next set of negotiations, those relating to the future “trade” relationship. Specificity will replace ambiguity; the Grieve snake oil will look suddenly less attractive. Remember that for the fanatical Remainers the problem with the Withdrawal Treaty was that as a straitjacket it still provided a small chance that we would not be asphyxiated.

 

And such an Act would not in itself be enough to “block” a “no deal” exit. At the moment we are leaving on 31st October as a “default” not only in UK law but in the EU law which supersedes it. It is not in the UK’s gift to unilaterally halt our departure as things stand. The only legislative act which would stop our “no deal” departure would be one which explicitly revoked the Article 50 process. This of course is the ultimate aim, but not one they can admit to just yet.

So what of the full blooded coup?

If the Johnson government loses a vote of no confidence then we are in the political space defined by the Fixed Term Parliament Act, which does not set a precedent for his resignation for the simple reason that no precedent is available at all. The FTPA is new and therefore must be judged within its own terms rather than under the rubric of “precedent”. It is within this space that it is logically possible that the Commons could construct an alternative “government of national unity”. It would be no such thing. The only unifying principle would be one which saw its elements united in disdain at the impertinence of the masses in their attempt to decide for themselves how best they should be governed.

 In these circumstances, Johnson would be absolutely correct to follow the strict terms of that Act and attempt to resubmit his government to a further vote within 14 days. If that fails then we know what happens next: a General Election in the course of which a  Clean Break Brexit happens not by default but as a consequence of statutory decisions taken within our Parliament and agreed to with Brussels.  There is no “purdah” issue involved here; Johnson would not be depriving this Parliament of any decision about “no deal” because it has already been taken. The Insurgency MPs who insist on a “factory reset” over their previous decision have, unfortunately for them, left indelible traces on the hard drive.

And what form would their unity government take? Will it be Corbyn riding into town like Clint Eastwood’s mysterious stranger, restoring order before graciously handing back powers to the town elders? A Corbyn “caretaker” government, seizing power with the intention of defying the Marxist template so as to return it again? Anybody want to buy a bridge? The caretaker at my grammar school was there for about forty years.

Or will it be Ken Clarke? Summoned from the backbenches to put the uppity masses back in their box before heading to Ronnie Scott’s for last orders?

There comes a time when cognitive dissonance collapses into madness. This is what is happening to the Remain Insurgency. It sits at the chess board, a Nigel Short to the Cummings Kasparov, and finds itself generating “options” of ever-increasing ludicrousness. Having invested so much in the outcome of the game it has found itself unable to resign with dignity. It’s about to sweep the pieces off the board.

It needs to find a way to get over itself, or we are in for some very dark days ahead.

 

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2 minutes ago, TCCANARY said:

A term used in psychology by psychologists ---  Here, have this excellent article by Sean Walsh who has a doctorate in ... wait for it .... philosophy 😀👉  http://commentcentral.co.uk/remainer-cognitive-dissonance-has-collapsed-into-madness/

A Philosopher explaining psychology?

What next an Electrician to repair plumbing?

 

Like a chef doesn't know how to fillet a fish, bake bread or bone a rib of beef...

Just read the article, clown shoe.

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Nigel-Passport.png?w=540&ssl=1

As Britain prepares to exit the EU at the end of October, Nigel Farage has joined thousands of others in receiving his new passport and discovering the words ‘European Union’ have now been removed by the Home Office. Guido hears Nigel is genuinely delighted. Shame it still isn’t blue…

Screenshot-2019-08-19-at-13.16.39.jpeg?r

 

Guido looks forward to Nigel using his new patriotic prop at future campaign rallies…

 

8d8d9a3e55c550168714b84a601c7666cc862d8b

 

😀

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14 minutes ago, TCCANARY said:

A term used in psychology by psychologists ---  Here, have this excellent article by Sean Walsh who has a doctorate in ... wait for it .... philosophy 😀👉  http://commentcentral.co.uk/remainer-cognitive-dissonance-has-collapsed-into-madness/

A Philosopher explaining psychology?

What next an Electrician to repair plumbing?

 

Yes, just like Jools explaining anything. 

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1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:

Yes, just like Jools explaining anything. 

It would be refreshing if you posted anything that required explaining 😀

Nothing all the way through this thread but supposition and useless ad hominem one-liners.

Thick as two short ones.

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52 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Just so I understand correctly, so you are saying @paul moy was wrong? 

Absolutely. 

(and yes you did cite some of the relevant sats first) 

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This is the shy.te the cretinous brexiteers not only swallowed, but bleated out on here

 

'The day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want' - Michael Gove 2016.

Brexit will be easy, and have no downsides.

Trade talks would take place in parallel with divorce talks

The UK did not need a transition deal and would not be subject to EU rules or budgets during one

The transition serves merely to implement the final trade deal, which would be agreed by Brexit day

The transition would be short but open-ended.

The UK would owe no money to the EU after it left in March 2019.

A raft of new trade deals would be ready on 29 March 2019 

A high-tech customs solution would make frictionless borders simple

 Any EU Free movement would come to an end on 29 March 2019; any EU citizens arriving after that date would be subject to a different immigration regime.

LeaveUK promised £350m-a-week NHS funding.

Britain will take back control of its fisheries after Brexit.

whereas the UK is now taliing of emergency flights to bring in vital food and medecines - I wonder what the bigot press would make of this were in to be caused by Corbyn

and this is the embarrassment the the UK is sending to the EU on our behalf, dear god.... even the thickest of thick brexiteers must be able to see through this chancer

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-bbc-inside-foreign-office-documentary-watch-video-caroline-wilson-a8655511.html

watch and cringe 😖

 

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Posted (edited)

Oh well then, if all it took was removing some words, this would have saved Billions of Pounds. 

p.s. I thought new passports were supposed to be blue, or do you get a set of colored lenses as well? 

Passport.jpg

Edited by Surfer

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2 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Oh well then, if that was all it took, was removing some words, this would have been Billions of Pounds cheaper. 

p.s. I thought it was supposed to be blue? 

Passport.jpg

The passport colour thing always irritated me slightly.

Not so much because I cared what colour it was, but because it seemed such a childish thing to worry about, and lent credence to the mythology that leavers were harking back to empire.

Still, saying all that, I think I will get a little thrill when my blue one comes through in 2021 😀

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2 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

What you mean is you're been ignoring the answers for the last three and half years but I'll give you my personal priority one last time as opposed to the full list of other benefits both economic and other rights that come with the EU which have also been stated on here many time by many different people.

Freedom of movement - the right to live and work wherever I choose within the EU.

Is that clear and simple enough for you?

160622-priti-patel.png?ssl=1

 

🙌👏👍😎🙃🙌🇬🇧 🤸‍♀️😀

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5 minutes ago, Jools said:

The passport colour thing always irritated me slightly.

Not so much because I cared what colour it was, but because it seemed such a childish thing to worry about, and lent credence to the mythology that leavers were harking back to empire.

Still, saying all that, I think I will get a little thrill when my blue one comes through in 2021 😀

Passport color, bend radius of bananas, ice packs for kippers, offshore tax policy, a new European army - it all adds up doesn't it? 

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1 minute ago, Surfer said:

Passport color, bend radius of bananas, ice packs for kippers, offshore tax policy, a new European army - it all adds up doesn't it? 

Doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, does it?

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