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OT - EU straw poll...

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On 02/03/2018 at 08:46, Bagster said:

I voted for Remain in a reformed EU but if I think about that now Its just a vague promise of I don’t k

or

"Something happens to expats at 15 years 😉

In other words I lost my right to vote"

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A shame. Perhaps even an engineered shame. Johnson will win anyway, but Gove would have been better at exposing his empty promises and failings.

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22 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

You don't understand it; that doesn't mean it's stupid. You're just not bright enough to grasp the analysis. 

Try harder. 

I thought it would be simple to figure out, but then again I should never overestimate a brexiter's intelligence.

 

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17 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

A shame. Perhaps even an engineered shame. Johnson will win anyway, but Gove would have been better at exposing his empty promises and failings.

It would have been a better, dirtier scrap between Johnson and Gove, now it will be a long winded coronation with a charisma free Hunt boring the country rigid.

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3 hours ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

I once asked VW to lay off me a bit because I sometimes struggle with anxiety. It was a lengthy message via PM. He read it and then baited me about my mental health in subsequent threads. I kept screenshots. What a lovely fellow.

 

 

3 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Low, but unsurprising. He certainly gives off the impression that he has a deep-rooted sense of inadequacy that he tries to deal with it by creating a persona online that reflects how he'd like to be away from the screen. Trouble is, he wants that persona to come across as macho and intelligent but he doesn't have the first clue how to behave that way.

Mocking mental health, inferences about penis size, references to small man syndrome; there is a reason he resorts to this type of assault.

Too many times he has been caught out for most not to be aware that something is 'amiss'.

He certainly does not post as some 70 something retiree. In fact were he to be so I'm sure he would have known when comprehensive schooling was introduced in Norfolk.Would someone of that age want to be spending from 7 (ish) in the morning to last thing at night posting stuff that never rises much above the petulant ?

I cannot imagine someone that age resorting to foul language so regularly either. His whole way of writing smacks of someone much younger with, perhaps, mild autism. Solely focussed on immediate gratification through 'scoring points' with no grasp of the wider implications of what he has posted, merely that he has 'won' in that moment in time.

A altogether sad and somewhat disturbing individual.

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6 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

Too many times he has been caught out for most not to be aware that something is 'amiss'.

He certainly does not post as some 70 something retiree. In fact were he to be so I'm sure he would have known when comprehensive schooling was introduced in Norfolk.Would someone of that age want to be spending from 7 (ish) in the morning to last thing at night posting stuff that never rises much above the petulant ?

I cannot imagine someone that age resorting to foul language so regularly either. His whole way of writing smacks of someone much younger with, perhaps, mild autism. Solely focussed on immediate gratification through 'scoring points' with no grasp of the wider implications of what he has posted, merely that he has 'won' in that moment in time.

A altogether sad and somewhat disturbing individual.

Lovely, thanks👍

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12 minutes ago, Herman said:

It would have been a better, dirtier scrap between Johnson and Gove, now it will be a long winded coronation with a charisma free Hunt boring the country rigid.

I disagree.

Gove has far too many skeletons and is seen as someone not to be trusted.

The Tories have not elected the favourite since the mid sixties....albeit it was down to MPs.

Much will now depend on how much Johnson is put on the spot to justify his often ludicrous claims, and deceit. Not that any expose of those will make much difference to the bigots but I do think this stuff being put out will change the argument.

As the guff about a new deal or no deal will no longer stand up to the most basic of scrutiny.

And if the 33 MPs who voted for Stewart are an indication of those who will block no deal then that is dead in the water already. So it will be interesting to see what Johnson has to peddle to the bogots.

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46 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

A shame. Perhaps even an engineered shame. Johnson will win anyway, but Gove would have been better at exposing his empty promises and failings.

I think that  might have been part of the calculation for some!

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2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Lovely, thanks👍

" Would someone of that age want to be spending from 7 (ish) in the morning to last thing at night "

no, but someone of hand crank's age apparently does

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Although more than 50% of Conservative MPs voted for Boris, I believe, when it goes out the members, it will be a lot closer and maybe Hunt will win it !

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1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I was going to post something about the 'accept/reject' debate you were having with Purple earlier but its been a busy day for me.....

But since you've asked me a direct question I guess you deserve an honest reply, although I don't think you'll like it!

This debate about accepting or rejecting the result, like so many facets of Brexit, has been running for a very long while but IMO is a completely meaningless (and uninteresting) one. Your asking me if I have accepted the result suggests to me that you think I have a role to play or at least a choice to make whereas in reality I have neither. The only role I had was as a voter and the only choice I've had is which box to put my cross in. The referendum and its result are a well documented historical event and without wishing to sound too Theresa May-like 'it is what it is', and it is just the same at every election - we get a vote, and as some bright spark once said, the government always wins. We don't get the option to accept or reject the result, so my direct answer would be I've neither accepted nor rejected the result.

Here's another, somewhat indirect, way of answering your question. The 2010 election event and result is also well known and documented and we also have the benefit of hindsight as to how its consequences played out. So if you asked me if 'I accepted the result of the 2010 election' then my answer (and its a long one!) would be:

If by 'accept the result' you mean do I know that the election took place, do I know what the result was and do I understand that election results have consequences, then yes I've accepted the result.

If you mean by 'reject the result' you mean that I was (and still am) very angry that resulting coalition government embarked on a course of action that was very damaging to this country's economy, its environment and to many of its most vulnerable citizens, then I'm afraid I also rejected the result.

If you also mean by 'reject the result', did I moan endlessly' to anone who'd listen(!), signed petitions or other peaceful protests then yes, another that's another rejection.

Finally if you mean by 'reject the result', was I very angry that two different parties, with very different political platforms combined together to form a government and broke many serious promises that each had made, then its another rejection to extent that I will never vote for either of those parties again (and I had voted for one of them in that election).

So I'll leave you to judge whether I accepted or rejected the result but the reality is that its all normal politics and we actually do neither - especially in the UK where our electoral system has negligible accountability and therefore a huge democratic deficit.

I, and many others, have been 'moaning' about this for years but it seems that the complacent majority believe that everything is fine in the 'mother of parliaments' so 'if it ain't broke, dont fix it'. Except, of course, that they're now waking up to the fact, sadly far too late, that it is broke and what's more they don't know how to fix it. So the standard and probably only way for the politicians and indeed others to respond is to begin the hunt for scapegoats, and certainly for Brexiteers the target is obvious, and its not the liars who sold them a myth or even their own hard Brexit MPs who have prevented Brexit!!!

But that was not really a pop at Brexiteer voters, we're only having this conversation because our democracy and the representation it produces has become dysfunctional - this is the underlying problem and it has been a long time in the making. Brexit is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

I can;t believe you wrote that and still believe in PR

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40 minutes ago, Bill said:

" Would someone of that age want to be spending from 7 (ish) in the morning to last thing at night "

no, but someone of hand crank's age apparently does

Is that you Billy or was it one of the little gremlins.....we need to check 😉

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Bill said:

I disagree.

Gove has far too many skeletons and is seen as someone not to be trusted.

The Tories have not elected the favourite since the mid sixties....albeit it was down to MPs.

Much will now depend on how much Johnson is put on the spot to justify his often ludicrous claims, and deceit. Not that any expose of those will make much difference to the bigots but I do think this stuff being put out will change the argument.

As the guff about a new deal or no deal will no longer stand up to the most basic of scrutiny.

And if the 33 MPs who voted for Stewart are an indication of those who will block no deal then that is dead in the water already. So it will be interesting to see what Johnson has to peddle to the bogots.

So what is your conclusion Billy, are you saying Johnson will lose?

 

Edited by Van wink

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17 hours ago, Bill said:

" he only common point is that like VW they are all (apart from you then?) pro-Brexit. That apart, in all other important respects - writing style, level of facility with the English language, method of argument, capacity to argue cogently, level of understanding of oppositional arguments, level of understanding of facts, ability to distinguish between facts and wishful thinking, ability to differentiate between trustworthy and untrustworthy sources - they differ markedly not only from VW but from each other. "

Whereas in at least one case the names when quoted turned to to be the same.

Of course the same spelling mistakes, phraseology, sentence construction are mere coincidence.... as is the 'mistake' of replying to arguments posted to 'other' posters.

Last night I was up until the early hours marking work (yes it goes on) and you get a feel for someone's writing style after a while. It is as if they were speaking to you direct.

I expect hand crank, like the late Dave of Lowestoft, roams far and wide elsewhere on the internet so is not so diligent in his posts as simply honesty would otherwise have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c63YDrSrcO8

 

Well Billy Bob you can always take up the 5000 offer I gave you 

You never do though do you

As for having multiple personalities on here

I suggest that maybe you protest tooo much!!

So say hi to the rest of yours for me 😉

Fake news indeed 

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12 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

He's got you there Bagster. 

No Dan he didn't, I got me and I was fully aware of that as was everybody else.

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Its going to be very interesting to see how king Boris is going to react as PM

If as Rory stated he has told the erg that we are going out hard

And then the one nation Tories we are going out soft 

It's not going to take long before we see who he actually lied to.

For me , it doesn't really matter as he will face the same problems with parliament and the EU that TM did.

Therefore groundhog Day will not be far away.

Thinking about it as I post 

I will say he lied to the ERG, they will not be able to unseat another PM without forcing an election and they don't want Corbyn.

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@PurpleCanary

 

You are definitely a facts man so no risks from you my purple friend 😉

Me, I am a risk taker. They don't always work out 😉 but I have noticed something quite interesting.

Sometimes the mistakes produce a benefit that I had not even considered.

If I had to compare you to a football player, you would be a central defender or a defensive midfielder.

Whereas Bill, well Bill he would be a ballboy 😉

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17 minutes ago, Bagster said:

No Dan he didn't, I got me and I was fully aware of that as was everybody else.

Fully aware that you've been telling porkies? I wasn't aware of that until Bill quoted your fib (I hope through some means of search rather than crawling through this toilet of a thread, as that would be a touch pathetic), so he did get you. 

Why lie, Bagster? 

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21 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Fully aware that you've been telling porkies? I wasn't aware of that until Bill quoted your fib (I hope through some means of search rather than crawling through this toilet of a thread, as that would be a touch pathetic), so he did get you. 

Why lie, Bagster? 

He’s a Brexiteer. They have to constantly lie to persuade others that Brexit isn’t a total s hit show.

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Well Dan 

Ask Herman, CM, Badger or Purple

They all knew what I was saying and what I was implying.

Next time I will fill you in ok 😉

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12 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

He’s a Brexiteer. They have to constantly lie to persuade others that Brexit isn’t a total s hit show.

Hi Bill

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Dan 

Why lie?

Ok let's look at the lie

I said I voted to remain in a reformed EU and then changed to leave when it was obvious that the reform was not what I wanted.

The reality

My vote was theoretical

Not much of a lie is it

What does it change and whom did it hurt?

I could've spent years moaning about the fact that I wasn't even allowed to take part, maybe lying was just me taking part. 

Is that so bad?

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4 minutes ago, Bagster said:

Well Dan 

Ask Herman, CM, Badger or Purple

They all knew what I was saying and what I was implying.

Next time I will fill you in ok 😉

I'm a millennial but even I just fronted up and took it if I was caught with my fingers in the cookie jar. When did it become the norm to wriggle and squirm rather than just put up your hands? 

I'm meant to be of the snowflake generation guys; well, unless you value logic and evidence. 

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1 minute ago, Bagster said:

Not much of a lie is it

You beat my post by a few seconds. Though I still think there was a bit of wriggling and squirming there. 

And "Not much of a lie". A lie is a lie is a lie. Unless you're a Tory or Brexiteer, evidently. 

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Posted (edited)

No wriggling, I wasn't caught out, I supplied the information to purple of all people.

Now purple is a sharp cookie, he knew what I was saying 

Bill is divisive, as bad as any brexiteer, probably worse.

He knows what he is doing implicating VW the way he does and I believe he already caught you with it.

So why not confront a real liar

Edited by Bagster
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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

He’s a Brexiteer. They have to constantly lie to persuade others that Brexit isn’t a total s hit show.

Hi Bill

That would explain a lot !

Edited by SwindonCanary

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28 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Was the £350 million a week OK because Vote Leave were just being theoretical?

Dan, hardly comparable is it.

That was a lie to influence people to vote a certain way before the advent.

And technically when I lied I was a Remainer 😉

One of the reasons the older generation voted leave was because they were told that they were joining a economic union not a political union. That was a rather large lie.

Also this referendum was said to remain in a "reformed" EU. Herman says this reform is a red herring which is code for a lie 😉

People lie and we have a situation where both sides have told porkies.

So if we simplify the equation and believe me I have to simplify it as I'm a builder not Einstein we are left with this.

Our country is divided approx 50/50

If we hard brexit we p I s s off 50%

If we hard remain we p I s s off 50%

Both of these situations have the ability to cause major disruption.

The middle way is more stable and that is the compromise to give both sides something of what they want.

That is all I want now but unfortunately we seem to have terrible politicians who behave like spoilt little brats and have forgotten how to govern.

 

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