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OT - EU straw poll...

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1 minute ago, Herman said:

Hahahaha you daft ****. How the hell does that work?

Anyway, your first reply to winky's post?? Why was your first post a group of asian lads celebrating? Why did the BP keep mentioning the asian community? Why are known racists like Hopkins getting involved? Hand around with dogs......

😀 Look at Hermo doing the race-baiting because he's got nothing else 😀

It's been a while now since you gave us any ideas regarding EU reform...

Anything?

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Remember the two lesbians who got punched on a bus by a gang of youths? Remember the outpouring of sympathy they received from all quarters of the country? Well it seems our sympathy was somewhat misplaced as these young women demonstrate the worst kind of entitled victimhood that the Labour Party feeds upon. Read what journalist Brendan O'Neil has to say:

So that makes it OK for a gang of men to beat up two young women does it? I like how you have chosen to say punched. 

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Simon Blagden, big Tory party donor rumoured to be offered a seat in the Lords so he can become Trade Minister.

Cronyism at its worst.

This from a silly woman who cried at her lectern that she loved this country. She wanted to finsh before the tears got to her, "The country I love, which allows us lot to shaft you lot right up the Gary Glitter".

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8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Remember the two lesbians who got punched on a bus by a gang of youths? Remember the outpouring of sympathy they received from all quarters of the country? Well it seems our sympathy was somewhat misplaced as these young women demonstrate the worst kind of entitled victimhood that the Labour Party feeds upon. Read what journalist Brendan O'Neil has to say:

So that makes it OK for a gang of men to beat up two young women does it? I like how you have chosen to say punched. 

best to ignore him

he just posts up this type of **** to get a response

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3 hours ago, Bill said:

......or, as known by his native American name

Running scared

61n9nICTcJL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

😀 Boris won Channel 4’s pathetic debate, simply by not being there.

Sir Nigel of Farage also won because the whole grotesque event was an excruciating reminder of how constipated Britain badly needs the purgative force of The Brexit Party.

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Forgive me father for I have sinned

It's ok my son its not your fault

It's them pesky neo con brexiteers that did it.

I know they have been in power for the past 40 years and of course I know remainers have not profited from their nasty policies in any way shape or form.

Ok that's you lot absolved now

CM I agree with you that TM played this game wrong from the very start and it should've gone to a cross party consensus.

But what would that consensus have been?

Probably Remain 😉

But it is a fact that the back benchers created a chance to take control and did not. 

Why was that then? They spent years trying to get that opportunity and then did nothing with it.

Is it maybe because they never really wanted that, they just wanted Remain.

It takes two to tango

But we don't want to tango, we just want to be RIGHT at all costs.

We are a s h I t team and we will get the brexit we deserve.

I hope you all enjoy it ...... EQUALLY of course 😉

 

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Will you ever take responsibility for your actions Windbagster? Constantly trying to pass the buck for your stupidity is a tad tedious now. 

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Very odd smear by the Torygraph this morning?! Why won't Rory tell the country he was in the secret services? Because he can't for starters...... 

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Posted (edited)

So, an electoral pact between The Brexit Party and the Tories would allow a snap general election and keep Labour a minority party. 

Makes total sense and would allow Brexit to be delivered with a massive majority of Brexiteer MPs in parliament :

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1141248/Brexit-latest-Nigel-Farage-news-Tory-donor-talks-general-election-pact-Brexit-party

 

Bring it on and drain the swamp !!

Edited by paul moy

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2 hours ago, Bagster said:

CM I agree with you that TM played this game wrong from the very start and it should've gone to a cross party consensus.

But what would that consensus have been?

Probably Remain 😉

 

No it wouldn't - there was a cross party consensus when 500+ MPs voted for Article 50. If Theresa May had followed that up with a sensible proposal such as Norway+/CM2, instead of the absolute dross that she served up, then it would have passed.

She had her chance and she blew it - the indicative votes were never a real chance because the consensus amongst MPs that existed 2 years ago had long been destroyed and absolutely nobody (on any side) had any trust in Theresa May  who had displayed total contempt throughout the process for the House of Commons, and right to the very end made it very clear that whilst she remained PM the government would only enact her deal and nothing else, irrespective of the views of the house. And so it proved.....

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58 minutes ago, paul moy said:

So, an electoral pact between The Brexit Party and the Tories would allow a snap general election and keep Labour a minority party. 

Makes total sense and would allow Brexit to be delivered with a massive majority of Brexiteer MPs in parliament :

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1141248/Brexit-latest-Nigel-Farage-news-Tory-donor-talks-general-election-pact-Brexit-party

Bring it on and drain the swamp !!

Lol, all a general election will probably do is give Libdems the balance of power again.  A new lib/lab/green pact would then get brexit stopped.  Not saying that is the right thing to happen, but is as least as likely as the tories and brexit party getting enough votes - to start with, if they fight the same seats, their votes will be split and nullify each other - and can you see the tory party not stand in some seats??  Pie in the sky.

 

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

No it wouldn't - there was a cross party consensus when 500+ MPs voted for Article 50. If Theresa May had followed that up with a sensible proposal such as Norway+/CM2, instead of the absolute dross that she served up, then it would have passed.

She had her chance and she blew it - the indicative votes were never a real chance because the consensus amongst MPs that existed 2 years ago had long been destroyed and absolutely nobody (on any side) had any trust in Theresa May  who had displayed total contempt throughout the process for the House of Commons, and right to the very end made it very clear that whilst she remained PM the government would only enact her deal and nothing else, irrespective of the views of the house. And so it proved.....

Her biggest mistake was calling the election. As soon as she lost her majority the tail wagged the dog. The  Labour opposition also saw a weak government and  whatever she was able to put forward after that would have been voted down for party political reasons. 

Edited by Van wink

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11 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Remember the two lesbians who got punched on a bus by a gang of youths? Remember the outpouring of sympathy they received from all quarters of the country? Well it seems our sympathy was somewhat misplaced as these young women demonstrate the worst kind of entitled victimhood that the Labour Party feeds upon. Read what journalist Brendan O'Neil has to say:

So that makes it OK for a gang of men to beat up two young women does it? I like how you have chosen to say punched. 

The whole point seems to have passed you by. I, along with just about everybody who commented, said how terrible it was for these two young ladies were attacked on a late night bus.

It now transpires our sympathy is unwelcome because in the crazy world of intersectional victimhood these ladies consider that their skin colour disallows any act of kindness on our part.

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Just now, Rock The Boat said:

The whole point seems to have passed you by

A fair accusation until...

Just now, Rock The Boat said:

It now transpires our sympathy is unwelcome because in the crazy world of intersectional victimhood these ladies consider that their skin colour disallows any act of kindness on our part.

The whole point seems to have passed you by.

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

Very odd smear by the Torygraph this morning?! Why won't Rory tell the country he was in the secret services? Because he can't for starters...... 

Why is working for MI6 a bad thing in your world, Herman?

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22 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

No it wouldn't - there was a cross party consensus when 500+ MPs voted for Article 50. If Theresa May had followed that up with a sensible proposal such as Norway+/CM2, instead of the absolute dross that she served up, then it would have passed.

She had her chance and she blew it - the indicative votes were never a real chance because the consensus amongst MPs that existed 2 years ago had long been destroyed and absolutely nobody (on any side) had any trust in Theresa May  who had displayed total contempt throughout the process for the House of Commons, and right to the very end made it very clear that whilst she remained PM the government would only enact her deal and nothing else, irrespective of the views of the house. And so it proved.....

Her Withdrawal Agreement was written by Merkel in Germany and handed to her to get through the HoC. It's why she tried four times to get her deal through Parliament. It was her 'there is no alternative' moment. I agree with you that there was a chance at the outset to get cross-party consensus at the outset but that bird flew away very early on and by the end it was the Germans writing her script. I posted a couple of months back the evidence for this.

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7 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Why is working for MI6 a bad thing in your world, Herman?

Once again, the whole point seems to have passed you by.

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1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

Her Withdrawal Agreement was written by Merkel in Germany and handed to her to get through the HoC. It's why she tried four times to get her deal through Parliament. It was her 'there is no alternative' moment. I agree with you that there was a chance at the outset to get cross-party consensus at the outset but that bird flew away very early on and by the end it was the Germans writing her script. I posted a couple of months back the evidence for this.

Could you post the evidence again please or point me in the right direction. 

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20 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Her biggest mistake was calling the election. As soon as she lost her majority the tail wagged the dog. The  Labour opposition also saw a weak government and  whatever she was able to pur forward after that would have been voted down for party political reasons. 

I think I would argue that setting off on the wrong course and wrecking the Article 50 conensus was her biggest mistake but perhaps we can agree that it was her original mistake. Calling the election was, I suspect, a result of her starting to realise her approach wasn't going to past muster in the HoC (plus the temptation of a seemingly weak opposition doing very poorly in the polls). So rather than pivot towards back towards the sort of consensus we're discussing now (and which she'd effectively signed up for in the Stage 1 agreement!!) she thought she could solve her problem by increasing her majority in an election and forcing her way through.

After that, as you quite rightly say the tail wagged the dog and it was downhill all the way from there on - mainly because the numbers were against her but also, I think, because the campaign had exposed her as a very weak and uninspiring leader.  A braver or more imaginative PM might still have tried to pivot to an alternative rather than continue relentlessly with her failed deal but it seems that despite her huge determination she just didn't have some of the other attributes required in her DNA.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I think I would argue that setting off on the wrong course and wrecking the Article 50 conensus was her biggest mistake but perhaps we can agree that it was her original mistake. Calling the election was, I suspect, a result of her starting to realise her approach wasn't going to past muster in the HoC (plus the temptation of a seemingly weak opposition doing very poorly in the polls). So rather than pivot towards back towards the sort of consensus we're discussing now (and which she'd effectively signed up for in the Stage 1 agreement!!) she thought she could solve her problem by increasing her majority in an election and forcing her way through.

After that, as you quite rightly say the tail wagged the dog and it was downhill all the way from there on - mainly because the numbers were against her but also, I think, because the campaign had exposed her as a very weak and uninspiring leader.  A braver or more imaginative PM might still have tried to pivot to an alternative rather than continue relentlessly with her failed deal but it seems that despite her huge determination she just didn't have some of the other attributes required in her DNA.

Inflexibility and a relentless approach are qualities which in another context may have been advantages but in such a complex matter with a divided country and Parliament were significant weaknesses. I sometimes wonder if she felt she had to keep proving herself In what is sadly still a male dominated profession.

Edited by Van wink

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39 minutes ago, dj11 said:

Could you post the evidence again please or point me in the right direction. 

Dj11, the consensus in the EU is that if anything the Withdrawal Agreement was too generous to the UK, but it could have been dictated by the ghost of Leon Trotsky  for the relevance it has to the impasse May created.

There could well have been a Commons' majority for the WA. I don't think any of the opposition parties have a problem with it. Labour certainly doesn't, and many Tory MPs would have voted for it. Only the DUP is implacably against.

What kept getting rejected by MPs, and this was certainly not written by Merkel or Trotsky's ghost or anyone else bar Theresa May, was the Hard Brexit political declaration she linked to the WA.

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1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

Once again, the whole point seems to have passed you by.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how he ended up at that conclusion?! 

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Posted (edited)
Just now, Herman said:

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how he ended up at that conclusion?! 

It was a stupid conclusion to end up at, so naturally as a stupid person that is exactly what RTB did.

Incidentally, I had to cleanse myself this morning as I actually found myself warming to Rory Stewart. However, a brief look at his track record and voting past quickly put paid to that.

Putting someone who is a bit a c**t in a room full of utter c**ts does not stop that someone being a c**t.

It's a bit like this thread; there are occasions where you start to think VW might have an IQ higher than Ipswich Town's points total this season, but then you realise it's only because you've been reading posts from Jools, paul moy and RTB.

Edited by canarydan23
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52 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Dj11, the consensus in the EU is that if anything the Withdrawal Agreement was too generous to the UK, but it could have been dictated by the ghost of Leon Trotsky  for the relevance it has to the impasse May created.

There could well have been a Commons' majority for the WA. I don't think any of the opposition parties have a problem with it. Labour certainly doesn't, and many Tory MPs would have voted for it. Only the DUP is implacably against.

What kept getting rejected by MPs, and this was certainly not written by Merkel or Trotsky's ghost or anyone else bar Theresa May, was the Hard Brexit political declaration she linked to the WA.

So there is no evidence?

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55 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Inflexibility and a relentless approach are qualities which in another context may have been advantages but in such a complex matter with a divided country and Parliament were significant weaknesses. I sometimes wonder if she felt she had to keep proving herself In what is sadly still a male dominated profession.

Yes indeed, I would agree with both parts of that except to observe that at some point sheer common sense should have kicked in along with the realisation that her inflexibility had become self-defeating.

It seemed that in going into the talks with Labour that perhaps it had finally (and incredibly late in the day) kicked in but in the end it seems she still couldn't find any flexibility - I guess she was just too far gone by then.

I don't like comparing TM to Thatcher as apart from being the only two (Tory) PMs I see little similarity between them and certainly whilst Thatcher could be regarded as someone to whom inflexibility and a relentless approach were an advantage, she also had the ability to inspire/persuade people (at least within her own party!!) to her own views. TM doesn't have those qualities at all and so whilst nobody doubted her determination it was always expressed as trying to pressurise/panic MPs into supporting her rather than persuade them that it was the right thing to do - difficult to do I know especially when she was trying to sell them  a pig in a poke   😉

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I had the same conclusion about Anna Soubry. I only had one thing in common with her. 

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The whole point seems to have passed you by. I, along with just about everybody who commented, said how terrible it was for these two young ladies were attacked on a late night bus.

It now transpires our sympathy is unwelcome because in the crazy world of intersectional victimhood these ladies consider that their skin colour disallows any act of kindness on our part.

I'm sorry but you have me puzzled there. Never mind the reaction of the victims, the fact that there are groups of young men happy it seems to not only abuse lesbians but when they get a retort they resort to violence. What next?

Your reaction is very much the same as James Cleverley who when asked about Johnson's misdemeanours and in one case using the word pickaninny, he responded by ignoring the question and rattling on about what he had done for London. And then furtively replied that Johnson said it when he was a journalist. As if that makes it OK.

Wrong is wrong 

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