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OT - EU straw poll...

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No I disagree, I think we are getting there.

You look at yourself too much, but junckers dream is dead, tusk is starting to talk about introducing some of Cameron's reforms, the centre coalition at the heart of the EU is broken, Macron will have to tone down and he is already talking about tougher border controls.

Although the brexit party won, when you add it all up, the remain parties won.

On top of that, the kids are all bored and all three of mine joined the green wave.

I have to add that is the first time I actually enjoyed an EU election 🙂

so where are we, well get rid of Corbyn, get rid of the lord's, add some direct democracy and we will be about there.

chances of brexit happening 40% but it will be soft. 

The funny thing is, if Corbyn goes so will brexit!!

but the arch corbynite will be along in a minute to tell us otherwise. Maybe he thinks May was crying because she failed to stop brexit 😉

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   On 23/05/2019 at 21:02,  Daz Sparks said: 

Just voted, interesting to know that the polling clerk replied when asked that the turn out was high, exceptionally so for a Euro election.

Anyone seen any exit polls?

"err, they can't be published until the polls close - 10pm"

 

:classic_biggrin:

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Herman said:

Hard Brexit party does very well.

Hard Remain parties do very well.

Labour's fence sitting has finally caught up with them.

The Tories have destroyed themselves.

And we are still very divided nation and no clearer to a solution to where we want to go.

Have a feeling the rise of the Greens is not solely about Brexit, its been a feature across the EU as a whole, which is good news as far as I'm concerned. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Bagster said:

No I disagree, I think we are getting there.

You look at yourself too much, but junckers dream is dead, tusk is starting to talk about introducing some of Cameron's reforms, the centre coalition at the heart of the EU is broken, Macron will have to tone down and he is already talking about tougher border controls.

Although the brexit party won, when you add it all up, the remain parties won.

On top of that, the kids are all bored and all three of mine joined the green wave.

I have to add that is the first time I actually enjoyed an EU election 🙂

so where are we, well get rid of Corbyn, get rid of the lord's, add some direct democracy and we will be about there.

chances of brexit happening 40% but it will be soft. 

The funny thing is, if Corbyn goes so will brexit!!

but the arch corbynite will be along in a minute to tell us otherwise. Maybe he thinks May was crying because she failed to stop brexit 😉

Disagree with that Bagster. 

She may come across as a mad old bat, but Widdecombe's analysis was correct. 100% of Brexit votes are just that, but you have to subtract the LD & Green voters who would have voted for those parties no matter what their Brexit stance. You can argue about how much that is, but it would have probably reduced the Remain total below the Leave since it was so close.

 

 

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I agree. It's good to see Europeans taking climate change and the environment seriuosly. People aren't tired of listening to the experts.

Anyway, anyone up for another referendum?

image.thumb.png.4b9bc88762ab88399bcbb6ca7f6c79f0.png

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5 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Disagree with that Bagster. 

She may come across as a mad old bat, but Widdecombe's analysis was correct. 100% of Brexit votes are just that, but you have to subtract the LD & Green voters who would have voted for those parties no matter what their Brexit stance. You can argue about how much that is, but it would have probably reduced the Remain total below the Leave since it was so close.

 

 

By that reckoning you would have to exclude all the UKIP voters who have simply changed party name. So subtract all the kippers who would have voted for that party and you only get 4 extra seats. Or some such nonsense.

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9 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

One unified taxation system

One ministry of finance

You really have no idea what Remain means, do you?

Yes, I also understand what the word 'one' means.

Now you're 0 for 7.

 

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

By that reckoning you would have to exclude all the UKIP voters who have simply changed party name. So subtract all the kippers who would have voted for that party and you only get 4 extra seats. Or some such nonsense.

Could you explain how that works please?

 

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Only if you explain your's and Anne's reasoning. How would people voting for clear and unambiguous Pro-EU parties not count because they would have voted for them anyway?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Herman said:

By that reckoning you would have to exclude all the UKIP voters who have simply changed party name. So subtract all the kippers who would have voted for that party and you only get 4 extra seats. Or some such nonsense.

PinkUn double posted me!

Edited by ron obvious

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Norwich (East of England) result:

Grn: 26.0% (+2.1)

LDem: 24.0% (+16.6)

Brex: 21.3% (+21.3)

Lab: 17.0% (-12.5)

Con: 5.2% (-9.3)

UKIP: 2.6% (-18.3)

😀

 

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29 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Disagree with that Bagster. 

She may come across as a mad old bat, but Widdecombe's analysis was correct. 100% of Brexit votes are just that, but you have to subtract the LD & Green voters who would have voted for those parties no matter what their Brexit stance. You can argue about how much that is, but it would have probably reduced the Remain total below the Leave since it was so close.

 

 

By that ridiculous logic, you have to subtract any Brexit party votes that would have still voted for them when they announce any other policies.

Widdecombe's comments were ludicrous to anyone with an ounce of sense - hopefully you'll review your position on that one.

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24 minutes ago, Herman said:

By that reckoning you would have to exclude all the UKIP voters who have simply changed party name. So subtract all the kippers who would have voted for that party and you only get 4 extra seats. Or some such nonsense.

Makes the same point better than I did.

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

Only if you explain your's and Anne's reasoning. How would people voting for clear and unambiguous Pro-EU parties not count because they would have voted for them anyway?

Look at your percentage votes Herman.  A Brexit party vote is an unambiguous vote for Brexit, the others are not solely motivated  by remain - I remember one LD MP voting for Brexit, which is a high proportion of their MPs! - Greens contain people who would vote Green whether leave or remain, same for SNP;  Labour & Tory obviously contain both persuasions.

You can argue about the proportions, but it's likely to make it very close.

 

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35 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

She may come across as a mad old bat, but Widdecombe's analysis was correct. 100% of Brexit votes are just that, but you have to subtract the LD & Green voters who would have voted for those parties no matter what their Brexit stance. You can argue about how much that is, but it would have probably reduced the Remain total below the Leave since it was so close.

 

 

Wow, that is truly desperate clutching at straws.......

And as Herman has just highlighted, it wasn't close at all.

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7 minutes ago, kick it off said:

By that ridiculous logic, you have to subtract any Brexit party votes that would have still voted for them when they announce any other policies.

Widdecombe's comments were ludicrous to anyone with an ounce of sense - hopefully you'll review your position on that one.

Only if those other policies negate Brexit.

 

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1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Wow, that is truly desperate clutching at straws.......

And as Herman has just highlighted, it wasn't close at all.

So you're saying people ONLY vote LD, Green, SNP because of their Brexit stance? I don't think that's true.

 

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MP's last night all claiming how well remain party's did and completely ignoring that Brexit party dominates in the EU Elections.

Even after the result, they still don't get it.

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2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

MP's last night all claiming how well remain party's did and completely ignoring that Brexit party dominates in the EU Elections.

Even after the result, they still don't get it.

The hard Remain parties got over 40%

Brexit party got 35%

I would suggest it's you who doesn't get it.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

So you're saying people ONLY vote LD, Green, SNP because of their Brexit stance? I don't think that's true.

 

You're wrong then. The Lib Dems have been unashamedly pro-EU and campaigned for these elections literally saying "A vote for LD is a vote against Brexit". That's after they had been all but politically wiped out post-coalition. They have seen an astonishing resurgence both in locals and in Euro elections. Greens have always been resolutely pro-EU too.

To try and deny that people are voting for Greens and LDs in the Euro elections over Brexit, when both have made their entire campaign for these elections a single issue anti-Brexit campaign (as did the SNP too for the record) is to either be incredibly poorly informed, or so blinkered you can't see the wood for the trees.

Edited by kick it off
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Bit disingenuous to the greens to disregard people’s reasons for voting for them other than their Brexit stance.

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Newly-formed Change UK has not won any seats, while the Newly-formed The Brexit Party has received the highest share of the vote in nine of the 10 regions - with 32% overall

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

So you're saying people ONLY vote LD, Green, SNP because of their Brexit stance? I don't think that's true.

 

Well I'd say you're wrong - those three parties have always been strong pro-EU parties throughout their existence and made Remain their clear priority in this election.

That does not mean that anti-Brexit is the ONLY reason people voted for them but since their whole policy platforms across the economy, civil rights and freedom of movement, climate and environment are essentially pro-EU then it would be a very strange decision for anyone who wanted Brexit to have ever voted for any of them. Not saying it hasn't happened but the numbers will be absolutely miniscule.

And I forgot to say that the anti-Brexit lead is going to increase further when the Scottish and NI results come out, so forget any idea that the figures will be massageable to prove Leave won.

Farage did his bit, as expected, but overall Remain has won comfortably in terms of definitive votes. The only real unknown is what the small group of voters who continued to back the Tory and Labour wrecks were hoping for, because ironically those are still the group with MPs in the HoC.

Edited by Creative Midfielder
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16 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

MP's last night all claiming how well remain party's did and completely ignoring that Brexit party dominates in the EU Elections.

Even after the result, they still don't get it.

I don't think this is true at all. The BBC headline even states that the Brexit party dominates. The simple facts are that the Brexit party did very well, which was expected. The remain parties also did very well.

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1 minute ago, Herman said:

I don't think this is true at all. The BBC headline even states that the Brexit party dominates. The simple facts are that the Brexit party did very well, which was expected. The remain parties also did very well.

Funny, it's the headlines in all the papers

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Funny, it's the headlines in all the papers

And obviously, as adults, we are incapable of engaging our brains and have to take media headlines at face value without considering their provenance, bias, or backers.

Wasn't believing headlines at face value with no modicum of foresight, how you got yourself in such a pickle and made so many bold, false assertions regarding Honda Swindon?

Edited by kick it off

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