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OT - EU straw poll...

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31 minutes ago, Herman said:

Yep, better not let this get hidden in all the commotion.

image.thumb.png.babe783680260ed69bf73601e5fe551c.png

Yep, lets be very clear Vote Leave acted illegally.

Typical of them they tried to sneak out the news today

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The UK has finally left the EU as of 11pm tonight - vindicating all the cranks on here who said it would definitely happen

so over to you Barnacle Bill

what''s your thoughts on this

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Bill said:

..... the nearer this gets to April 12th - the nearer it looks like the UK will either revoke Art 50, or negotiate an extension until 2020 ....

Yes I agree with you on that Bill. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Bill said:

Heartening to see what can be achieved when you stand together and fight back against your betters ✊

Sometimes you have to stand with those that can’t pay. I’d also like to point out that we have a proud history of standing up against injustice. 

Which is what I told my parents when they had debt collectors turn up demanding goods to the value of my unpaid poll taxed 

Edited by yellowandgreen

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2 hours ago, Yosemite Sam said:

NEVER Take any drugs !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1

Same poor vocabulary, grammar and writing style. Another Looney Tunes character. If you’re going to have multiple accounts, at least be clever and original, Swindon. (OK, you might struggle with the clever bit)

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6 hours ago, Surfer said:

Could you quote a reliable source backing up your claim of over a MILLION Leave protestors please? 

 

I'll offer up this evidence it wasn't

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/police-braced-for-numerous-probrexit-protests-in-london-including-ukip-and-tommy-robinson-protest-in-a4104116.html

You reàlise who is the editor of the standard?

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6 hours ago, ricardo said:

You can't tax the unwilling. My son never paid any Poll Tax and took a leading part in demonstration in Norwich. He used all the services but was quite happy for his poor old dad to pay for them😀

The Poll Tax was a good idea in principle as houses don't use services but people do. However it was difficult to collect as many people live off the grid. 

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5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

You reàlise who is the editor of the standard?

Yep, and he's about as popular as the march yesterday. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Herman said:

You have to remember how it looks back home, where their voters are. If they start looking like dupes it won't go down well. They may jump before they are fully pushed under the tory brexit bus.

They will not want to risk a Corbyn Government, that certainly wouldnt look good back home!

Edited by Van wink

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I think being thrown under the bus by the Conservative and Unionist party is a worse look. 

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4 minutes ago, Herman said:

I think being thrown under the bus by the Conservative and Unionist party is a worse look. 

The people that support them back home detest Corbyn.

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9 hours ago, BigFish said:

Yep, lets be very clear Vote Leave acted illegally.

Typical of them they tried to sneak out the news today

Something stinks when we are regularly told to respect the vote even though it was clearly fraudulent. 

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Time for PR with min hurdle and the powers of party members to be reviewed in both parties to prevent the corrosive impact of the few having undue influence on British politics. And media required to present opposing views. Plus improved political and economic education in schools. The UK is way behind other countries in these matters which is why it is in current mess. 

Someone asked in the EU27 if I ever wanted to go back to a country where 52pc of the country are ignorant racists. Like it or not that is how Brexit makes the UK appear to the outside world. I completely understand that many have not benefited from the EU as I have but it is for the UK to address its fundamental issues.  Good balanced interview from Ken Clark on Channel 4 YouTube yesterday. Parliament needs more balanced pragmatic reasonable people capable of seeing different view points 

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1 hour ago, paul moy said:

The people will win the fight for democracy and a proper Brexit.  Tory Brexit traitor Dominic Grieve loses confidence vote last night in Beaconsfield and is due for deselection:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1107421/Brexit-news-latest-dominic-grieve-beaconsfield-conservative-association-buckinghamshire

 

Paul never reads these stories.

"Although the BCCA passed the no-confidence vote, it does not automatically mean he will be deselected."

More ill-informed nonsense from Paul Moy. 🤣

 

 

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10 hours ago, BigFish said:

image.thumb.png.babe783680260ed69bf73601e5fe551c.png

Yep, lets be very clear Vote Leave acted illegally.

Typical of them they tried to sneak out the news today

I am disappointed that this has not had more attention in the media - it is as if they have totally taken it for granted that the campaign was illegal and not a big issue.

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2 hours ago, Van wink said:

They will not want to risk a Corbyn Government, that certainly wouldnt look good back home!

It depends upon their order of priorities. My understanding is that they place the Union as their overriding priority and would therefore have to determine where the greatest threat to the Union lies:-

a) a Brexit prioritising an independent trade policy

b) A Corbyn govt.

Whilst they certainly would not like b) they must also have concerns about the former, particularly as they are now aware that for all their words of support, Johnson, Raab and Reece-Mogg see their support of the union as something tradeable for political advantage.

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Reece-Mogg July 2018 on TM's plans:

"This is the greatest vassalage since King John paid homage to Phillip II at Le Goulet in 1200. It is not something I would vote for nor is it what the British people voted for."  

"In particular this paper sets out that the UK will be subject to EU laws while having no say in their creation. The Common Rule Book will not be Common it will be EU law, interpreted by the EU Court with the UK subjected to EU fines for non-compliance. In effect Parliament will have no say over future EU laws implemented in the UK."

After the terms of the deal became clear, RM said in November 2018

"She hasn’t so much struck a deal as surrendered to Brussels and given in to everything they want and tried to frustrate Brexit that it’s not so much a vassal state anymore as a slave state." 

Despite this, he voted FOR it?

Anybody care to try to justify this?

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

I am disappointed that this has not had more attention in the media - it is as if they have totally taken it for granted that the campaign was illegal and not a big issue.

True but then the Electoral Commission don't take it seriously either do they?

Given that they say "We found that they broke the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness, confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event. Serious offences such as these undermine public confidence in our system............"

In what possible sense does a fine of £61,000 three years later do anything whatsoever to sanction the people involved (which were funded to tune of millions, illegally?) or restore the confidence or legitimacy of the vote. If it happened elsewhere we would be condemning, or laughing at (or maybe invading) a 'tin pot democracy' but of course being British it's just a stiff upper lip and sweep it under the carpet as quietly as possible.

I'm finding it really difficult to even get angry about this kind of thing anymore which is a worry given that I was brought up to understand right/wrong, fairness etc in a way which imagine many (most?) of us were. Although I've had some growing sense of disillusion about the UK for quite a while now, even two or three years ago I would never have dreamt that I could feel so ashamed of my own country as I have over the past few months, and I suspect will do for the rest of my life because we seem to be locked into a downward spiral and which the supposed safeguards in our society are unable or unwilling to do anything about.

Anyway, enough of that - should be focusing on the plan to move across the Channel!

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15 minutes ago, Badger said:

Reece-Mogg July 2018 on TM's plans:

"This is the greatest vassalage since King John paid homage to Phillip II at Le Goulet in 1200. It is not something I would vote for nor is it what the British people voted for."  

"In particular this paper sets out that the UK will be subject to EU laws while having no say in their creation. The Common Rule Book will not be Common it will be EU law, interpreted by the EU Court with the UK subjected to EU fines for non-compliance. In effect Parliament will have no say over future EU laws implemented in the UK."

After the terms of the deal became clear, RM said in November 2018

"She hasn’t so much struck a deal as surrendered to Brussels and given in to everything they want and tried to frustrate Brexit that it’s not so much a vassal state anymore as a slave state." 

Despite this, he voted FOR it?

Anybody care to try to justify this?

Don't think anyone could justify hypocrisy on the scale of Rees-Mogg but I am quite impressed that he knew precisely where King John paid homage to Phillip II, even though there's a bit of a clue in the treaty 😀

I suppose he may have paid a researcher to look it up but Eton is quite good at instilling the values and detailed but narrowly focussed knowledge expected of a 19th century aristocrat. Just a shame that they're absolute sh*t at turning out well educated and well rounded people for the 20th/21st century!

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6 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Don't think anyone could justify hypocrisy on the scale of Rees-Mogg but I am quite impressed that he knew precisely where King John paid homage to Phillip II, even though there's a bit of a clue in the treaty 😀

I suppose he may have paid a researcher to look it up but Eton is quite good at instilling the values and detailed but narrowly focussed knowledge expected of a 19th century aristocrat. Just a shame that they're absolute sh*t at turning out well educated and well rounded people for the 20th/21st century!

Tbh, CM, I didn't have you on my list of people that might try to justify JRM. :classic_biggrin:

I was thinking more of some of our fellow posters that are extreme brexiteers and/ or Tory Party voters.

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47 minutes ago, Badger said:

It depends upon their order of priorities. My understanding is that they place the Union as their overriding priority and would therefore have to determine where the greatest threat to the Union lies:-

a) a Brexit prioritising an independent trade policy

b) A Corbyn govt.

Whilst they certainly would not like b) they must also have concerns about the former, particularly as they are now aware that for all their words of support, Johnson, Raab and Reece-Mogg see their support of the union as something tradeable for political advantage.

That’s hardly likely to come as a surprise to them, they are hard nosed politicians.

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18 minutes ago, Van wink said:
1 hour ago, Badger said:

It depends upon their order of priorities. My understanding is that they place the Union as their overriding priority and would therefore have to determine where the greatest threat to the Union lies:-

a) a Brexit prioritising an independent trade policy

b) A Corbyn govt.

Whilst they certainly would not like b) they must also have concerns about the former, particularly as they are now aware that for all their words of support, Johnson, Raab and Reece-Mogg see their support of the union as something tradeable for political advantage.

That’s hardly likely to come as a surprise to them, they are hard nosed politicians.

Not so sure that they would have expected this - it is the Conservative and Unionist party after all! You may also remember that it was the attempt to maintain the political integrity of the Union that led to the backstop.

If leading Conservatives are prepared to betray their commitment to the Unionists for political advantage, as you readily suspect, might they also have good reason to fear that in the long term the backstop may be dropped? This would give the more extreme elements amongst Brexiteers the type of Brexit that they are looking for.

i.e. Tories could abandon the Unionists, no need for NI backstop and then the road is free for any type of Brexit that they want.

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1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

Paul never reads these stories.

"Although the BCCA passed the no-confidence vote, it does not automatically mean he will be deselected."

More ill-informed nonsense from Paul Moy. 🤣

 

 

Indeed, but mark my words, he will be.

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1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

True but then the Electoral Commission don't take it seriously either do they?

Given that they say "We found that they broke the electoral rules set out by Parliament to ensure fairness, confidence and legitimacy at an electoral event. Serious offences such as these undermine public confidence in our system............"

In what possible sense does a fine of £61,000 three years later do anything whatsoever to sanction the people involved (which were funded to tune of millions, illegally?) or restore the confidence or legitimacy of the vote. If it happened elsewhere we would be condemning, or laughing at (or maybe invading) a 'tin pot democracy' but of course being British it's just a stiff upper lip and sweep it under the carpet as quietly as possible.

I'm finding it really difficult to even get angry about this kind of thing anymore which is a worry given that I was brought up to understand right/wrong, fairness etc in a way which imagine many (most?) of us were. Although I've had some growing sense of disillusion about the UK for quite a while now, even two or three years ago I would never have dreamt that I could feel so ashamed of my own country as I have over the past few months, and I suspect will do for the rest of my life because we seem to be locked into a downward spiral and which the supposed safeguards in our society are unable or unwilling to do anything about.

Anyway, enough of that - should be focusing on the plan to move across the Channel!

Far more serious offences are multiple voting as many students did and will continue to do, as well as the abuse of postal votes.  Those offences are far more serious than spending money, which remain spent more of anyway.  Cameron's 9 million on a brochure was an abuse of Brexiteer taxpayer's money. The electoral commission are biased and this was also mentioned in court.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1017825/election-watchdogs-resign-pressure-vote-leave-brexit-politics

 

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45 minutes ago, Badger said:

Tbh, CM, I didn't have you on my list of people that might try to justify JRM. :classic_biggrin:

I was thinking more of some of our fellow posters that are extreme brexiteers and/ or Tory Party voters.

It is completely unjustifiable and you only need to look at the comments on his twitter account to see what people think about his treachery. The conservative party will be decimated at the next election if there is a right-wing alternative. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

It is completely unjustifiable and you only need to look at the comments on his twitter account to see what people think about his treachery. The conservative party will be decimated at the next election if there is a right-wing alternative. 

It was Hobson's choice as No Deal has been taken off the table and that could mean no Brexit.  No treachery there at all as many were swayed to at least get some form of Brexit while also having the benefit of ridding us of closet remoaner May. 

I do however have even more respect for those Tories that voted against the Treaty for very good patriotic and democratic reasons but no respect for Labour who effectively want to remain via a customs union or 2nd referendum and force a GE. Personally though, I would welcome a GE to drain the swamp of remoaner MPs as we all know who they are, and return a Brexit-biased parliament be it hung or not.

My favourite for PM is Dominic Raab.

Edited by paul moy

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