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OT - EU straw poll...

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1 minute ago, Van wink said:

I don’t make stuff up unlike your good self BS

Dig around hard enough and you will find them....I know you don’t like info that doesn’t support your narrative.

 

But surely Jools you can remember the source you took them from.

As time and time again when challenged you seem to shrink away like some slug from salt

I have merely posted up links from very reliable sources that suggest what you posted up was yet another lie, so why not provide as all with a link to your source so we can decide whether the

IMF or you are lying

let the readers decide

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32 minutes ago, Jools said:

And there children is why entering into a debate with a Lefty is almost as pointless as trying to reason with a Jehovah's Witness.

Why? Because you're illiterate and get challenged on what you've made up? Or because you don't even understand the debate in the first place and get exposed trying to have a pop and embarrass yourself? 

Pathetic Jools, like I said better things to do than respond to your gob****e nonsense all night, especially when you literally have no idea what you're talking about. You have no answer as to why not every bill was blocked if that was his motive, and you don't even understand the issue.

You're normally a ****, but at least you make the pretence of knowing what youre talking about usually. Poor effort.

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6 minutes ago, Bill said:

But surely Jools you can remember the source you took them from.

As time and time again when challenged you seem to shrink away like some slug from salt

I have merely posted up links from very reliable sources that suggest what you posted up was yet another lie, so why not provide as all with a link to your source so we can decide whether the

IMF or you are lying

let the readers decide

 

I rarely indulge you when you go around calling everyone liars, and then have the odassity to accuse peiple of being abusive, but just this once for you..

Andrew Neil

“Now that Q4's very weak growth figures are in we'll no doubt hear more about being slowest economy in G7. Here are prelim. stats for 2018 growth:

US 3%

Canada 2.1%

UK 1.4%

Germany 1.1%

France 0.9%

Italy 0.1%

Japan 0%

Lesson: H2 2018 saw SERIOUS slowdown outside N America”

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13 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Preliminary stats for 2018 growth CM

US 3% Canada 2.1% UK 1.4% Germany 1.1% France 0.9% Italy 0.1% Japan 0%

Not sure what the source of those numbers is but the OECD have:

US 2.89%, Canada 2.12%,  France 1.61%, Germany 1.57%, UK 1.3%, Italy 1.0%, Japan 0.87% - couldn't see a figure for the whole EU but they have the Eurozone as 1.91%.

So excellent news, we've got back above Italy and Japan (and Brazil too!) who all have well understood problems of their own but compare that to the 2016 picture in which the UK was running at well over 2% prior to the vote and still managed to finish with a 1.79% average for the year with

US 1.57%, Canada 1.41%, France 1.11%, Italy 0.97%, Japan 0.96% and Germany who, from memory, were running just slightly behind us before the vote carried on unaffected and finished the year on 2.16%.

Of course all 2018 figures are very provisional but cut it anyway you like and the UK economic position relative to these and many other countries has significantly declined since the vote, and not just on this measure - the devaluation of the pound following the referendum didn't, as the Brexiteers predicted, improve never mind cure our balance of payments issue  - they are very similar just slightly worse than in Q2 2016. Eliminating the budget deficit is further away than ever, to the extent that our utterly incompetent government are trying desperately to avoid even discussing it any more.

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It’s not excellent news CM but it is indicative that what we see, and what many are all to keen to blame in Brexit is a much more complex matter.

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Some interesting stories flying around that May is bcoming more inclined towards a no deal Brexit, internal polling showing a clean break to be more popular within the Tory party.

 

That was what you voted for wasn't it, VW? I know you voted very specifically for something that was on the ballot paper in invisible ink...🤪

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20 minutes ago, Van wink said:

 

I rarely indulge you when you go around calling everyone liars, and then have the odassity to accuse peiple of being abusive, but just this once for you..

Andrew Neil

“Now that Q4's very weak growth figures are in we'll no doubt hear more about being slowest economy in G7. Here are prelim. stats for 2018 growth:

US 3%

Canada 2.1%

UK 1.4%

Germany 1.1%

France 0.9%

Italy 0.1%

Japan 0%

Lesson: H2 2018 saw SERIOUS slowdown outside N America”

Now then Jools.

I did not call you a liar just asked whether you or the IMF were. Quite different.

Those are outdated figures from Neil, though it should be no surprise that you were happy to post them up rather than check more reliable sources, FT etc

And it is audacity, not as you posted

Odd, or not as some may think, that you share the same constant bad spelling as hand crank, 'mad' moy and RTB as well as posting up abusive words and  very similar right wing guff

all very odd, I think not

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23 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

That was what you voted for wasn't it, VW? I know you voted very specifically for something that was on the ballot paper in invisible ink...🤪

Don’t be silly

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26 minutes ago, Van wink said:

what many are all to keen to blame in Brexit is a much more complex matter.

Not really, except in the sense that Brexit itself is much more complex than many people recognise and also many faceted.

Of course it is not the complete and sole explanation for everything that is happening (or not happening) in the UK today but equally there is no disguising the fact that the vote itself, supplemented by the total shambles which TM has generated since, shows a very clear correlation with a change in the trajectory of the UK economy relative to our major partners and competitors.

The reasons behind that correlation may be many and complex but it doesn't change the simple truth that the threat and approach of Brexit has meant that our economy has significantly under-performed for the last two years compared to what would have been the case had the vote had never taken place (or returned a different result!).

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15 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Bill yet again chooses to mock those who have dyslexia. 

A very virulent form at that, as it appears to have spread to RTB, Jools, 'mad' Moy and a host of others

Perhaps it is due to their close proximity to hand crank

A bit like the Equine flu, only in this case the problem seems to be coming from the other end

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1 minute ago, Bill said:

A very virulent form at that, as it appears to have spread to RTB, Jools, 'mad' Moy and a host of others

Perhaps it is due to their close proximity to hand crank

A bit like the Equine flu, only in this case the problem seems to be coming from the other end

A virulent form of dyslexia, what a sad individual you are.

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food industry warn of brexit crisis

can´t stand all this project fear sh1te about running out of food

we have now have 4 deals signed up with major markets. Switzerland, Chile, Eastern and Southern Africa, and The Faroe Islands

so we are good for: Gruyere Cheese, Toblerone, Wine,  more wine, and fish. And we will have accurate watches so we know when it is dinner time

Four trade deals already signed

 

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Gruyere is one of the nicest cheeses to toast. Shame we won't have any bread to put it on.😉

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2 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

food industry warn of brexit crisis

can´t stand all this project fear sh1te about running out of food

we have now have 4 deals signed up with major markets. Switzerland, Chile, Eastern and Southern Africa, and The Faroe Islands

so we are good for: Gruyere Cheese, Toblerone, Wine,  more wine, and fish. And we will have accurate watches so we know when it is dinner time

Four trade deals already signed

 

Good news that the wine is covered, and of course I'm sure now we've negotiated our own deal we'll get back to proper chunky British Toblerone bars, not those feeble, skinny EU standard ones!!

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3 hours ago, kick it off said:

Why? Because you're illiterate and get challenged on what you've made up? Or because you don't even understand the debate in the first place and get exposed trying to have a pop and embarrass yourself? 

Pathetic Jools, like I said better things to do than respond to your gob****e nonsense all night, especially when you literally have no idea what you're talking about. You have no answer as to why not every bill was blocked if that was his motive, and you don't even understand the issue.

You're normally a ****, but at least you make the pretence of knowing what youre talking about usually. Poor effort.

Whilst I confess I'm no expert on the subject of FGM, I'm not illiterate and I certainly haven't fabricated my views on the political aspect of a debate that I fully comprehend.

As I've stated previously, nodding through a Bill without scrutiny is a poor way to improve law --- Chope, explains in his article in the Telegraph, that both anti-FGM campaigners and the BMJ have reservations about how this Bill was drafted and it is only by his action — arcane though this procedure may be — that he has ensured it can now be properly debated and amended as a government Bill.

If you're concerned about stopping FGM and how government works towards that, you would realise the need for serious debate and well-drafted legislation -- Bad legislation is why in the last 30 years and 160,000 plus cases later, there's only been one prosecution.

Now, KiO, instead of playing the man rather than the ball, go after the perpetrators of this vile crime in the first instance, because you garner no credibility with your ad hominem attacks against people who are trying to provide solutions to a third world evil you're complicit with by your hopeless virtue signalling and inaction.

 

D*ckhead.

 

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4 hours ago, Jools said:

WHAT EU WORKERS' RIGHTS?

image.png.5dac203371af6aab38a181e6cf23022f.png

© EU Commission

Labour, and even the PM, talk about preserving EU rights – which ones?

Workers’ & women's rights come from UK, not EU

One of the very many myths about the EU is that it has been responsible for the minimum statutory workers' rights enjoyed in the UK today. This is often repeated, particularly by Labour and LibDem pro-Remain politicians.

Questions for Remainer MPs

  • Do Remainer MPs want the UK to sink to the EU’s level?
  • Do they want no minimum wage legislation?
  • Do they want British workers to lose 8 day’s holiday pay?
  • Do they want women to lose 38 weeks’ paid maternity leave?

Last week Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn mentioned the subject of workers' rights again, in his letter to the Prime Minister, demanding “dynamic alignment on rights and protections so that UK standards keep pace with evolving standards across Europe as a minimum”.

Theresa May is still trying to persuade Labour MPs to back her non-Brexit Brexit deal. She has said that the Government is proposing to introduce a draft bill guaranteeing that UK workers’ rights will keep pace with those in the EU.

Brexit Facts4EU.Org looks again at the truth about “EU workers’ rights”

Brexit Facts4EU.Org summary

Workers' and women's rights

1. EU workers’ rights laws are lower than UK’s

  • UK statutory paid holiday entitlement is 28 days, in EU only 20 days
  • National Minimum Wage Act 1998 – there's no EU minimum wage law
  • Maternity leave – UK: 52 weeks, EU: 14 weeks
  • Under EU laws, the British people's rights would decrease

2. UK established workers’ rights long before EU

  • “Protection against ****, race and disability discrimination in the UK pre-dated EU law” (from TUC report)
  • Women’s rights: Equal Pay Act, Abortion Act and Divorce Reform Act were all passed before UK even joined EU
  • **** Discrimination Act, Domestic Violence Act, Employment Protection Act – no EU involvement
  • EU’s Posted Workers Directive means EU workers can be employed in UK for fraction of the cost of UK workers

3. EU healthcare rights are way below UK standards

  • EU has no free healthcare requirement – most people pay for top-up private insurance
  • In France it costs over £25 just for 5 minutes with your GP, paid at the time
  • In many countries you pay, and get only partially reimbursed later
  • With the UK’s NHS, treatment is free at the point of delivery

4. Finally, workers’ rights are only relevant if you have work

  • In the Eurozone, austerity has taken the jobs of millions of workers
  • You’re nearly twice as likely to be out of work in the Eurozone
  • An entire young generation across southern Europe has been devastated by 30-50% unemployment for years

Observations

In the area of workers' and women's rights we've shown above, the UK's statutory arrangements are better than those which would be applicable under EU law.

Remainer misinformation

In Parliament in recent months, swathes of Remainer MPs have stood up many times and trotted out the mantra that the British people had been lied to during the Referendum campaign.

Indeed the British public has been lied to on a systematic and epic scale, but the vast majority of the lies came – and still come - from Remainers. Their continuing claims about workers' and women's rights which we have debunked above are just one small example of this.

image.png.b4ca446436c3bb1fb0b4ce981734ddf7.png

© Official Stronger IN campaign

Relevance to Brexit

The EU is insisting on a "level playing field" as part of the ‘Future Partnership’. In other words it is trying to prevent the UK from operating as an independent country with its own taxation policies and other frameworks which would make the UK a more competitive country than those in the EU.

What could be a more obvious lack of a level playing field than that of UK businesses competing with businesses in the Single Market and Customs Union having a minimum wage 1/5th that of the UK? Or trying to compete with businesses which don’t face costs of higher holiday entitlements, or substantially longer maternity pay?

With a true, clean Brexit the British people and its Government will want to keep exisiting rights, but at least when the UK leaves it will be able to adopt sensible policies in other areas, to help British businesses compete.

Do Remainers want to go backwards?

The UK has chosen, through its elected representatives, to have workers’ rights which go well beyond those applicable under EU law.

It surprises us that Remainer MPs seem to want these workers’ rights rolled back to match the lower standards applicable in the EU....

[ Sources: Hansard | EC Working Time Directive 93/104/EC | TUC report 2016 on Workers’ Rights | EU Commission | Competences between UK and EU Social and Employment Policy (UK Gov’t) | National Minimum Wage Act ] Journalists and politicians can contact us for the full list of links, as usual.

Going to let this slip down the memory hole as well, you useless, lying, lefty Remaniac w⚓s?

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14 minutes ago, Jools said:

As I've stated previously, nodding through a Bill without scrutiny is a poor way to improve law --- Chope, explains in his article in the Telegraph, that both anti-FGM campaigners and the BMJ have reservations about how this Bill was drafted and it is only by his action — arcane though this procedure may be — that he has ensured it can now be properly debated and amended as a government Bill.

The Bill has had scrutiny and was merely being 'waved through' to it's next level of scrutiny and it's third reading.

So once again hand crank you are lying.

If this right wing nutter has any objections to it's drafting then he can put forward those objections during the Committee Stage, Report stage and Third Reading which would have followed, and still will. the second reading.. All this odious old Gammon has done is merely delayed reaching that stage

And to claim it was done as some kind of principled stand is pure bollox as he did not object to private members bills being put forward by his fellow nutter Bone MP

"Bill was drafted and it is only by his action — arcane though this procedure may be — that he has ensured it can now be properly debated and amended as a government Bill."

And if you ever had any doubt that hand crank has not the slightest idea of any of this then the above quote will easily dispel those doubts. Unless he can show that by doing this Chope changed the usual procedure and brought about the Committee Stage, Report stage and Third Reading he is lying, as they would have followed anyway. And still will.

And maybe explain how a Private Members Bill can somehow become a government bill.

Utterly clueless, and repugnant as well in trying to defend this further attempt to block democracy and a much needed piece of legislation.

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6 hours ago, Jools said:

Whilst I confess I'm no expert on the subject of FGM, I'm not illiterate and I certainly haven't fabricated my views on the political aspect of a debate that I fully comprehend.

As I've stated previously, nodding through a Bill without scrutiny is a poor way to improve law --- Chope, explains in his article in the Telegraph, that both anti-FGM campaigners and the BMJ have reservations about how this Bill was drafted and it is only by his action — arcane though this procedure may be — that he has ensured it can now be properly debated and amended as a government Bill.

If you're concerned about stopping FGM and how government works towards that, you would realise the need for serious debate and well-drafted legislation -- Bad legislation is why in the last 30 years and 160,000 plus cases later, there's only been one prosecution.

Now, KiO, instead of playing the man rather than the ball, go after the perpetrators of this vile crime in the first instance, because you garner no credibility with your ad hominem attacks against people who are trying to provide solutions to a third world evil you're complicit with by your hopeless virtue signalling and inaction.

 

D*ckhead.

 

Jools, i think its clear who the **** is here. In fact theres two of them. You and Chope. As aforementioned he failed to shout down just two bills, both of them were his mate Bone's. The legislation on this is not badly drafted and is now unlikely to get through parliament at all any time soon due to lack of debate time. The bill would allow social services to protect vulnerable children far more effectively but Chope has prevented this happening. Theres nothing to debate with this, the facts are the facts.

Just stop digging you ****ing moron. I wont reapond to any further points on this as its like trying to explain colours to someone who is colourblind and refuses to accept colours exist.

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Apropos of nothing the block feature does work, sort of. If you are tired of liars and wums it is worth giving a go. 😉

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3 hours ago, Herman said:

Apropos of nothing the block feature does work, sort of. If you are tired of liars and wums it is worth giving a go. 😉

I'll second that, adding Jools to my 'ignore' list has been working really well for a while now - I still get to see occasional snippets of his nonsense when he's quoted by someone else and that is quite sufficient to know that he is still continually spouting absolute b*ll*cks and that there is no point in opening up any of the enormous stream of posts that get filtered out.

Saves a lot of time - I used to think that the 'Ignore' feature of the board was unnecessary, indeed actually pointless but I guess that shows my naivety about social media which I almost completely ignore apart from this board. However Bill, Jools and Paul have taught me the error of my ways and clearly the software designers included the feature for very good reasons 😀

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15 hours ago, Jools said:

Correct, Ricardo, growth is actually being lowered because global growth is slowing, especially in the Eurozone and UK growth tells us we are actually doing quite well-considering parliamentarians are busying themselves inflicting as much uncertainty as they can via scaremongering and dithering in order to force their interests through.

It is true that it looks like we are heading to a global economic downturn and the UK is impacted by this, but only in part. It is also true that this is not necessarily Brexit realated, but again only in part. There are other economic headwinds the the UK faces that are Brexit driven. Business investment has nose dived due to uncertainty. Government & Business are also investing £billions on Brexit contingency plans that would be better invested in increasing productive capacity. High value jobs are being moved from the UK to the EU. Export sales are being lost because the shipping times mean delivery is after Brexit day.

What has also been overlooked in the discussion on GDP is that there were other negative economic indicators in yesterday's report. The UK's trade deficit actually widened again despite the c15% devaluation of the £ in the face of the Brexit vote. In a healthy economy the devaluation should have reduced imports, increased exports and prompted investment in the internal economy to substitute UK goods for imports. This hasn't happened which indicates the economy is in a worse state than the complacent posts above would indicate. Sure, this is not just Brexit, eight years of Tory economic mismanagement also clearly plays a part. The big question is what is the Brexit economic strategy, because it appears that the Brexitteers don't have one.

That is a worry, we are getting poorer, there is no Brexit economic strategy and the Brexiteers think even this is someone else's fault.

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5 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I'll second that, adding Jools to my 'ignore' list has been working really well for a while now - I still get to see occasional snippets of his nonsense when he's quoted by someone else and that is quite sufficient to know that he is still continually spouting absolute b*ll*cks and that there is no point in opening up any of the enormous stream of posts that get filtered out.

Saves a lot of time - I used to think that the 'Ignore' feature of the board was unnecessary, indeed actually pointless but I guess that shows my naivety about social media which I almost completely ignore apart from this board. However Bill, Jools and Paul have taught me the error of my ways and clearly the software designers included the feature for very good reasons 😀

I do not want to get into a stage where I only hear the opinions I like, but if someone constantly lies and then doubles down on those lies, then it gets to a stage where I can't be bothered with them anymore. Waste of time. 

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

I do not want to get into a stage where I only hear the opinions I like, but if someone constantly lies and then doubles down on those lies, then it gets to a stage where I can't be bothered with them anymore. Waste of time. 

Exactly this - fortunately despite the passions that Brexit (and football!) arouses, the total time-wasters are still a very small minority - on here anyway!   😀

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Another string of the Remaniac bow goes twang:

image.png.6fe91840e9058d0a748542ea9cb37a66.png

The EU Commission has this afternoon published legislation on ‘Railway safety and connectivity’ which would guarantee the Channel Tunnel remains open for three months after a no deal Brexit, enough time for the UK and France to renegotiate the treaty that provides the legal underpinning for the crossing. Another piece of a managed no deal that Brexiteers were told was impossible… 🤥🤪😎

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7 hours ago, BigFish said:

It is true that it looks like we are heading to a global economic downturn and the UK is impacted by this, but only in part. It is also true that this is not necessarily Brexit realated, but again only in part. There are other economic headwinds the the UK faces that are Brexit driven. Business investment has nose dived due to uncertainty. Government & Business are also investing £billions on Brexit contingency plans that would be better invested in increasing productive capacity. High value jobs are being moved from the UK to the EU. Export sales are being lost because the shipping times mean delivery is after Brexit day.

What has also been overlooked in the discussion on GDP is that there were other negative economic indicators in yesterday's report. The UK's trade deficit actually widened again despite the c15% devaluation of the £ in the face of the Brexit vote. In a healthy economy the devaluation should have reduced imports, increased exports and prompted investment in the internal economy to substitute UK goods for imports. This hasn't happened which indicates the economy is in a worse state than the complacent posts above would indicate. Sure, this is not just Brexit, eight years of Tory economic mismanagement also clearly plays a part. The big question is what is the Brexit economic strategy, because it appears that the Brexitteers don't have one.

That is a worry, we are getting poorer, there is no Brexit economic strategy and the Brexiteers think even this is someone else's fault.

Oh dear God, growth is growth, SmallFry, and the Germans, French & Italians would love to have some.

I learn today that the UK stock market has risen about 6% since Christmas 👍

Thank goodness I don't rely on the BBC for information.

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49 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Exactly this - fortunately despite the passions that Brexit (and football!) arouses, the total time-wasters are still a very small minority - on here anyway!   😀

It's probab;y because the football is good, or it could be because of the new forum layout, but there does seem to be a lot less nuisances on here and, on the whole, a bit more civilised.

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8 minutes ago, Jools said:

Oh dear God, growth is growth, SmallFry, and the Germans, French & Italians would love to have some.

I learn today that the UK stock market has risen about 6% since Christmas 👍

Thank goodness I don't rely on the BBC for information.

Lol @Jools  you don't understand any of this, do you. Would the Germans swap their economy for ours - no way.

Would the French swap their growth for ours - no way (FYI - KPMG predict that France will overtake the UK and move into fifth place in 2019. What will the Brexiteers say then "we are the sixth largest economy in the world"? No, because India are moving past the UK as well......well done Brexiteers you have made the 5th largest economy in the world the 7th largest)

Where is the Brexiteers economic strategy?

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