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OT - EU straw poll...

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4 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Don't have a flounce because someone added context to one of your typical 'half a story' posts. 🤣

Just correcting you Squit, as usual👍

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1 hour ago, Badger said:

I don't know if you have ever worked in a business in anything other than an operational or technical level, but a more sensible measure would be value of outputs/ cost of inputs. If the doctor manages to increase the value of his outputs by more than the costs of the secretarial costs, it is a profitable move.

A simple measure of the amount of "work done" (however you quantify this in a comparative form) over the number of people employed you end up with a statistic which means little to either a business or on a macro level. It would be an absolute nonsense to have your most skilled staff spending much of their time doing unskilled work (assuming that they are being paid at a skilled rate). 

Yep, I would agree with this and I would say that the whole idea of productivity has to be seen in a wider context than just a simplistic measurement of head count vs output. Thanks for putting a bit of flesh onto the discussion. 👍

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9 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Anyone see the Europe in Turmoil programme (bbc2 9 p.m. last night)? Very interesting, mostly about Greece. Couldn't understand how they managed to finance the $trillion they needed to prop up the markets & stop the eoro collapsing though (& how much we ended up on the hook for).

 

Wasn't  it due to the fact that the ECB said it would support  the Euro? I don't  think we were on the hook at all (but not certain  tbh). It was just all about confidence.

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32 minutes ago, Badger said:

Wasn't  it due to the fact that the ECB said it would support  the Euro? I don't  think we were on the hook at all (but not certain  tbh). It was just all about confidence.

There was something about the ECB not being allowed to do so I think - but it definitely intervened next time. Perhaps that was the way they resolved the problem originally (at 2.10 a.m.!) but I must have missed it if so.

Whatever, I thought it was a fascinating programme - as was the first. The final episode's on next week I believe.

 

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Some good brexitty news, John Humphries to leave the Today programme. Not soon enough to save it though. 

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16 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Yep, I would agree with this and I would say that the whole idea of productivity has to be seen in a wider context than just a simplistic measurement of head count vs output. Thanks for putting a bit of flesh onto the discussion. 👍

It doesn't really matter on which measure of productivity used, the UK economy remains a low wage, low investment, low skill, low productivity economy without a strategy to address this.

Sure unemployment in the Southern European nations is terribly high, however employment levels in the UK are a mystery and not following economic theory. The current levels should be a driver for increased wages and increased investment (to replace workers with machines). Instead the UK economy is driven by poverty wages that mean many in full time work do not earn enough for a decent living standard. Yet the only strategy the Brexiteers have is to further reduce the cost of employment through lower rights, protection and wages. This ignores the fact that the UK cannot compete with the Tiger economies on labour price.

The Bank of England is coming round to the theory that the UK economy is SO inefficient that unemployment would have to fall by 50% from current levels for the economy to respond. And before you say immigration is a factor in this you should acknowledge that most of the UK's growth in GDP since 2008 is entirely down to immigration.

The

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On 03/02/2019 at 18:05, kick it off said:

Oh. That's interesting. Because after the referendum Theresa May was locked in talks with them and then they agreed to keep production here and invest in the Sunderland plant, only to change their mind when there's no deal on the table ahead of Brexit.

In fact pal, you should probably tell the boss of Nissan Europe who said... 

He said the announcement would be "interpreted by a lot of people as a decision related to Brexit" and that "uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future".

He added: "With the UK's departure from the EU on March 29th getting closer every week, we have a taskforce in place, reporting to me, that it is considering all of the possible scenarios and the potential impact on business.

They have kept production here and no jobs have actually been lost.

In your haste to blame Brexit you obviously forgot to consider falling demand for diesel cars and the EU’s stringent new emissions standards -- And if it were a Brexit issue, surely Nissan would just relocate production to Spain or France where they already have manufacturing plants? Nay, once again you did what Remaniacs do best: Fabrication whilst totally ignoring logic.

Would you like to discuss the fact that Toyota commenced production of the new 2019 Corolla at its Burnaston plant in Derbyshire where over 3000 people are employed last month? I don't blame you for not knowing about this as the BBC and SKY haven't mentioned it 🤪

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3 hours ago, Herman said:

Donald Tusk gets it. 👍

Gets what exactly? That he's furthering the case for leaving the Pan European federalist, anti-democratic, elitist, corrupt, morally and fiscally bankrupt EU?

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3 hours ago, Herman said:

Donald Tusk gets it. 👍

Odd that his statement of the obvious should be so upsetting to some people...

His remark that so far isn't getting so much attention and is more significant is that there is “no political force and no effective leadership for remain” in the UK. As The Guardian says, an implicit assertion that the campaign for a second referendum is now a lost cause.

Not sure it is totally a lost cause - odd things happen in politics - but.it does bear out what I said after that set of votes on that Tuesday, that the prospect of another referendum was certainly slipping, and so also the chance of Brexit being stopped.

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30 minutes ago, Jools said:

Steptoe the Eurosceptic:

Curiously, the only other person on here to refer to Corbyn as Steptoe is our very own hand crank

Not the first time this poor fellow has got his various characters muddled up

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46 minutes ago, Jools said:

They have kept production here and no jobs have actually been lost.

In your haste to blame Brexit you obviously forgot to consider falling demand for diesel cars and the EU’s stringent new emissions standards -- And if it were a Brexit issue, surely Nissan would just relocate production to Spain or France where they already have manufacturing plants? Nay, once again you did what Remaniacs do best: Fabrication whilst totally ignoring logic.

Would you like to discuss the fact that Toyota commenced production of the new 2019 Corolla at its Burnaston plant in Derbyshire where over 3000 people are employed last month? I don't blame you for not knowing about this as the BBC and SKY haven't mentioned it 🤪

Classic Brexiteer short termism, @Jools - the motor industry works on long planning cycles, typically 15 to 20 years. No jobs were lost yet, but future jobs were and any future investment in the Sunderland plant is now at risk. That plant will last as long as the current Quashqai model continues, after that chances are it will close as a direct impact of Brexit. Jaguar Land Rover & Dyson are both following similar paths, legacy continues in the UK ("No jobs were lost" cry the Brexiteers) but investment and future jobs are all heading out of the UK. Toyota's decision on the Corolla will have been taken years before the referendum, if the choice was now the decision might be very different. It will be easier for Japan to trade with the EU after a no deal Brexit than the UK to trade with the EU so only a fool would expect that competitive disadvantage to have anything but a negative impact to the economy. Still Patrick Minford said this would happen and it would be a good thing so you must be happy he got something right.

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1 hour ago, Jools said:

Gets what exactly? That he's furthering the case for leaving the Pan European federalist, anti-democratic, elitist, corrupt, morally and fiscally bankrupt EU?

That Brexit is built on lies..........even now the clowns don't have a strategy

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4 hours ago, Herman said:

Donald Tusk gets it. 👍

Lifted from the HPC website:

 

"I think he has general anger issues. I mean - how can anyone look so angry whilst eating an icecream?"

 

qmTRTBn.jpg

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Considering what the leave campaigns/ERG have been up to it's a bit rich for their fans to be whining about corruption and moral bankruptcy.

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11 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

"I think he has general anger issues. I mean - how can anyone look so angry whilst eating an icecream?"

you get issued with anger ?

how strange

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14 minutes ago, Herman said:

Considering what the leave campaigns/ERG have been up to it's a bit rich for their fans to be whining about corruption and moral bankruptcy.

Even in their reponse to this the Brexiteers can't stop the mendacity. It is clear that that he wsa talking about the Leave EU campaign rather than Leave voters. Unless of course they want to share the "secret" plan they always had up their sleeves? 😉

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Odd that his statement of the obvious should be so upsetting to some people...

His remark that so far isn't getting so much attention and is more significant is that there is “no political force and no effective leadership for remain” in the UK. As The Guardian says, an implicit assertion that the campaign for a second referendum is now a lost cause.

Not sure it is totally a lost cause - odd things happen in politics - but.it does bear out what I said after that set of votes on that Tuesday, that the prospect of another referendum was certainly slipping, and so also the chance of Brexit being stopped.

Nothing he said was wrong. The remain camp have little political leadership to get behind and the official opposition aren't that much different from the government. Is it over? It's not looking good from this side but their's an iota of hope.  And even if it does end badly I have stocked up on schadenfreude.

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11 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Even in their reponse to this the Brexiteers can't stop the mendacity. It is clear that that he wsa talking about the Leave EU campaign rather than Leave voters. Unless of course they want to share the "secret" plan they always had up their sleeves? 😉

Yep, it was very clear what he said. Varadkar even mentioned he would get grief form the press and it has got to the stage where he doesn't care. Sadly ironic that the cane toad Farage is whining about someone being rude about him and his mates.

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"Donald Tusk calls out liars who wilfully misled people. Liars respond by wilfully misleading people about what Tusk said." J O'Brien.

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4 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Odd that his statement of the obvious should be so upsetting to some people...

His remark that so far isn't getting so much attention and is more significant is that there is “no political force and no effective leadership for remain” in the UK. As The Guardian says, an implicit assertion that the campaign for a second referendum is now a lost cause.

Not sure it is totally a lost cause - odd things happen in politics - but.it does bear out what I said after that set of votes on that Tuesday, that the prospect of another referendum was certainly slipping, and so also the chance of Brexit being stopped.

Don't tell you know who, it will only set him off again.

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10 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Don't tell you know who, it will only set him off again.

yes, it is odd (for you that is) that I only post under one name

hand crank, Jools, mad moy, nightfly and all the others

what a sad existence

Edited by Bill

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

"Donald Tusk calls out liars who wilfully misled people. Liars respond by wilfully misleading people about what Tusk said." J O'Brien.

It's usually not a good idea to wave a red flag at a bull.🐂

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38 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It's usually not a good idea to wave a red flag at a bull.🐂

Aaah, sod 'em. They'll always be angry about something, at least they now have something to be angry about (sort of), although they have been pretty abhorent in some of the language they have used over the years. So if they can't take it, they shouldn't dish it out.

Did you notice that they haven't refuted the claim that they never had a plan?

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15 minutes ago, Herman said:

Aaah, sod 'em. They'll always be angry about something, at least they now have something to be angry about (sort of), although they have been pretty abhorent in some of the language they have used over the years. So if they can't take it, they shouldn't dish it out.

Did you notice that they haven't refuted the claim that they never had a plan?

Then you must have been asleep, as it panned out somel thing like

It will be all right on the night because 'they need us more than we need them" and deals will be the easiest thing ever'.

It will produce 'broad sunny uplands' that allow '£350m to be spend on the NHS each week' all the time while 'remaining in the single market and the customs union'

I'm sure if you think back you will recollect that plan, even if brexiteers seem to be reluctant to

 

and here's how it has gone so far

 

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

It's usually not a good idea to wave a red flag at a bull.🐂

It almost looks as if he wants us to leave😉

Dont tell the Clown or it may upset his magical thinking. 

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