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OT - EU straw poll...

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7 hours ago, lake district canary said:

What is wrong with brexiteers?  As it stands we are leaving on March 29th.  Out of the EU but closely aligned with it - best of both worlds.

Seeing that the hard line brexiteers don't like that is actually quite good, it shows them up that they are more interested in their ideology than practicalities.  This has been the trouble for decades, a certain section of the tory party against he EU and never able to do anything about it until now....except all they are doing is making themselves look stupid.  

Remainers have made themselves look stupid already, hoping against hope for another referendum, which would be more divisive than ever.  Now it is brexiteers looking stupid as they fail to realise that they are getting brexit and are risking us staying in because of their attitude.  If the deal is voted down, there will be only one course of action - cancel brexit - because I do not believe parliament will allow a no deal brexit.

So what do you want brexiteers? A deal giving you brexit...or remaining, because that is starting to look like the only choice if the deal is voted down.  Even if you got May out and put up a brexit PM, what next?  There would still have to be another vote after this next one if it is voted down - and that vote would be do we want to go out with no deal, or stay in.....I think parliament would only have one answer to that.

So you may as well accept this deal...after all it gives you some of what you want....or do you even deny that??

 

They don't know what they want. Or if they did it has been lost in the political fog. It's the first time they have won something so to keep up that warm, winning feeling they'll keep piling on without a care, without engaging their brains and walk this country into oblivion. 

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Brexiters: We want our sovereignty.

Government: We always had our sovereignty.

Brexiters (after deal): They're taking away our sovereignty. 

As soon as one of their beliefs is proven to be untrue they will move the goalposts and they will keep moving the goalposts. Maybe it's time to stop taking them seriously. 

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12 hours ago, Bill said:

apart from those who read and take the time to reply

- otherwise good evening hand solo/solo hand

 

 

 

ps any idea where your 'mate' mad moy is, or even Nightfly ?

oh dear

i have nothing to do with those posters, yet more lies from you 

but do keep up posting this guff

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

They don't know what they want. Or if they did it has been lost in the political fog. It's the first time they have won something so to keep up that warm, winning feeling they'll keep piling on without a care, without engaging their brains and walk this country into oblivion. 

I never liked the anti-EU part of the tory party, they always seemed to be anti-progress.  They had a point of course - the EU has changed over the years and made it more easy to think it might be better out of it, but the euro-sceptics have always been there since the day we joined the common market - idealogical dinasours who had their moment of ecstasy with the referendum result. They only achieved that result through jingoism, playing on people's fears and false promises.

Is there an appetite in parliament for a no deal? It's looking like that will be the main question mp's of all parties to consider. 

1) Do remainers vote yes to stop a no deal, or do they vote no to stop May's deal and hope that the aftermath of that will see a vote of some kind to stop brexit altogether. 

2) Do brexiteers vote yes to ensure at least some kind of brexit, or vote no in the hope that they get their hard brexit? 

It's a conundrum of gigantic proportions, but the likelihood, imo, is that if May's deal is voted down, the huge fallout from that would see either a general election and/or another people's vote - because parliament as a whole will not want to sanction a no deal.  And if it is a no vote, May would probably have to go probably replaced by BoJo or Gove - do we really want that????? and/or a general election which would see either Corbyn as PM or a hung parliament......and do we really want that??????

It's a mess alright, but the best scenario now would surely be just to vote the thing through so the country, business and the economy can settle down, adjust and get on with things.

Edited by lake district canary

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I know what you mean LDC. No-one knows if this deal is bad or not as it has not been implemented. Those of us who voted remain thought leaving was the worst deal possible, so this cannot be as bad as that.

I am fed up with those who want to leave with no deal, and we know which public figures those are, and wish they would stop saying they are doing it on behalf and for the good of of the nation. They do not know for certain what any outcome is. What they mean is they are doing it because they think they know what is best.

Unless there is another vote or election, nothing will change, the EU has said that and will ratify both agreements on 25 November. If they do not wish to negotiate further then what is the point of defeating it in Parliament?

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I find the whole issue around our European membership extremely tiring. It's amazing how little we pay attention to history. Since the Roman Empire we have continually shown ambivalence towards Europe. Leaving Europe is nothing new, in fact we've done it many time's in the past. 

Geographically we're separate to Europe, and culturally quite different too. We've always managed to successfully trade, whether that's with Europe, or the rest of the World.

Debating with spoon fed information from parliament or the media is not intuitive. The whole 'Brexit' situation is being 'hyped' on all sides to suit political agendas, whilst protecting the state and powerful elite. 

 

Leaving or remaining in Europe, will make little difference to the mass population of Great Britain. As History will prove. 

 

 

 

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unless you have a job, cannot afford private health care, want your children and grandchildren to have a future

as to what the UK 'has always done' then the world has changed since the Roman times, sadly the outlook of many has not

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4 minutes ago, Bill said:

unless you have a job, cannot afford private health care, want your children and grandchildren to have a future

as to what the UK 'has always done' then the world has changed since the Roman times, sadly the outlook of many has not

Yes Bill, the world has changed. Yet the UK has continually adapted and been successful. Do you not think UK businesses would not adapt and move forward? 

 

As for your first sentence, that's typical scare mongering rhetoric used by people in power to keep themselves in power. And rhetoric used by all sides I might add. 

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part of that adaptation has been to ensure less costly (in both monetary and administrative terms) trade

burdening the UK with increased bureaucracy and 'form filling' is not the way the UK should go,

nor is it the way the world is moving

Edited by Bill

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37 minutes ago, Bill said:

part of that adaptation has been to ensure less costly (in both monetary and administrative terms) trade

burdening the UK with increased bureaucracy and 'form filling' is not the way the UK should go,

nor is it the way the world is moving

If you think that being in the EU means less bureaucracy for the UK then you are completely delusional. 

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27 minutes ago, Bill said:

part of that adaptation has been to ensure less costly (in both monetary and administrative terms) trade

burdening the UK with increased bureaucracy and 'form filling' is not the way the UK should go,

nor is it the way the world is moving

Bureaucracy and 'form filling' is symptomatic of EU membership. Exiting the EU would remove a dominant layer of compliance and regulation, and in all likelihood reduce Bureaucracy. Compliance to EU law is a huge bureaucratic burden. 

 

 

 

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nope

quantify all the extra customs and regulatory checks just to trade with the EU, never mind those outside the EU

then there is the years of work trying to draw up trade regulation with non EU countries

as a crank you probably still haven't grasped what being in the Single Market and the customs union means

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3 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

Bureaucracy and 'form filling' is symptomatic of EU membership. Exiting the EU would remove a dominant layer of compliance and regulation, and in all likelihood reduce Bureaucracy. Compliance to EU law is a huge bureaucratic burden.

oh dear, you don't seem too bright......are you a brexiteer by any chance ?

 

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 I see Spain are saying they will not sign the Brexit deal due to Gibraltar.  But it's not due to us it's the EU !

Mr Sánchez said.

"As a country we cannot assume that whatever happens in the future with Gibraltar would be negotiated by the UK and EU - it will have to be negotiated between Spain and the UK," he said.

Edited by SwindonCanary
repeated word

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2 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

 I see Spain are saying they are saying they will not sign the Brexit deal due to Gibraltar.  But it's not due to us it's the EU !

Mr Sánchez said.

"As a country we cannot assume that whatever happens in the future with Gibraltar would be negotiated by the UK and EU - it will have to be negotiated between Spain and the UK," he said.

oh dear

another one of these so called project fear concerns actually turning out to be true

lets just hope that UK does not have to fund it's commitments and the EU will 'go whistle' instead

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13 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

🐿

any particular reason why you removed your comment (to the above post)

"welcome back van wink/crafty " ?

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1 hour ago, Bill said:

oh dear, you don't seem too bright......are you a brexiteer by any chance ?

 

Bill, it's extremely rude and naive to suggest a persons political persuasion is aligned with there (perceived) intellect. 

Possibly your intellection of Brexit could also be questioned? Given,  you, like a large majority of the country, hang their hat staunchly on one side of the argument. The fact is that nobody knows how Brexit will truly impact on the UK. The whole subject of Brexit is too vast and incomprehensible for the majority of the population, including the so called experts. 

So how are you making a rational and informed decision? The truth is you're most probably not. Your decision is based on what you're prepared to listen too, of which the majority is political hearsay. You might support one side of the argument based on your own situation at a micro level, which is fair  enough, but don't try and argue so fiercely what's best for the UK overall, because you just don't know. 

So me personally, I'm totally disengaged with the political system both here in the UK, and abroad. I do support devolution which would probably sway me to leaving Europe, however I'm not prepared to irresponsibly make a decision over something I have minute comprehension of.  But maybe that's just my low IQ kicking in? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Il Pirata

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Are the ERG a busted flush? 90 seat auditorium, half filled, with half of that journalists. I ask again, why is the country allowing itself to be dragged down this alley by these clowns? 

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14 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

Bill, it's extremely rude and naive to suggest a persons political persuasion is aligned with there (perceived) intellect. 

 

That's an easy one.

Since he is such an intelligent and knowledgeable person it must be self evident to even the most obtuse poster that anyone with opposing views must be lacking in either brain power or critical analysis.

Or as he succinctly puts it, Terminally Dim or Liars

😎

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19 minutes ago, Herman said:

Are the ERG a busted flush? 90 seat auditorium, half filled, with half of that journalists. I ask again, why is the country allowing itself to be dragged down this alley by these clowns? 

Embarrassing aren't they:

DscF8IPWkAAb1Yg.jpg

Who on earth would be inspired by this bunch?  Just unbelievable really.

Just look at them!

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16 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

Embarrassing aren't they:

DscF8IPWkAAb1Yg.jpg

Who on earth would be inspired by this bunch?  Just unbelievable really.

Just look at them!

 

Someone should check the third and fifth from the right for a pulse.

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2 hours ago, Bill said:

any particular reason why you removed your comment (to the above post)

"welcome back van wink/crafty " ?

Mainly because I wanted to avoid derailing the thread again. Some of our “new” posters seem awfully familiar. I’m sure the likes of Van Wink are lurking somewhere 👋🏻

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59 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said:

 

Someone should check the third and fifth from the right for a pulse.

Moore Marriott should post her picture for comparison. 

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8 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Mainly because I wanted to avoid derailing the thread again. Some of our “new” posters seem awfully familiar. I’m sure the likes of Van Wink are lurking somewhere 👋🏻

cheers 🙂

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1 hour ago, ncfcstar said:

Embarrassing aren't they:

DscF8IPWkAAb1Yg.jpg

Who on earth would be inspired by this bunch?  Just unbelievable really.

Just look at them!

gamm on, mate

image.png.52a0c04d647d15cf44d7551571898929.png

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3 hours ago, ncfcstar said:

Embarrassing aren't they:

DscF8IPWkAAb1Yg.jpg

Who on earth would be inspired by this bunch?  Just unbelievable really.

Just look at them!

It's sad really. The right wing are always kicking off about women in burkas or kids in hoodies as a threat, when in reality it's wealthy, old white men in suits that cause the most problems.

2 things about today's gathering. For the first time that I have heard on the Today programme, a headbanger, Peter Lilley in this case, was balanced with a fact checker. It didn't go too well for Lilley. Maybe the editors of Today have been leant on by someone even higher up.

And just to the growing list, Global Britain are another opaque right wing think tank from 55 Tufton Street. Far too much influence coming from that address of groups that nobody knows who funds, who owns or who are members.

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And what is their intent ?

To fight for improved wages, better conditions - ensure that companies pay their agreed share of tax ?

Do you really think those shown are wanting brexit so as to improve environmental protection, more than what EU levels are now ? Drop poisonous gases to a lower level ? Increase animal welfare.

How have so many been fooled that they cannot see who is behind this and what the are really all about.

The only saving grace is, as shown by the report and the lack of the no confidence letters, these nutters are finding less support by the day. Voters are perhaps finally asking the questions they should have been asking before the referendum. As with -

" For the first time that I have heard on the Today programme, a headbanger, Peter Lilley in this case, was balanced with a fact checker. It didn't go too well for Lilley. "

The lies, deceit and misrepresentation is being found out. They are not 'on your side', they never have been. You only have to look at Lilley's record in the 80/90's to see what he thinks of the type of folk who voted Leave.

The tide has turned, and is now running against these 'nutters'.

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