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OT - EU straw poll...

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10 minutes ago, Jools said:

In total, Leave groups were far less well funded than Remaniac groups and the latter were backed up with 9 million pounds worth of public money -- as has been proven and discussed over & over throughout this thread.

And the notion that Leave groups incorporated Russian bots to sway opinion is f*cking ludicrous -- as has been proven and discussed over & over throughout this thread.

As for the 'Murdoch/right-wing papers' tired ol' meme – the Times and the Sunday Mail were/are pro-Remain, the BBC is the main news source for approximately 70% of people in the UK and is notoriously pro-EU, add to those the Lefty Channel4 & Sky and it makes one wonder how the Remaniacs lost the referendum.

To deny any of the above is to weaponise Right-wing politics.

Your choice 👍

Leave raised more than Remain did overall. The US senate certainly believes Russia meddled in the referendum. Let's try sticking to the facts rather saying your opinion and adding "as has been proven" to make it sound like a fact.

As for "weaponising" right wing politics, the right wing is full of total 'weapons' as it is.

Edited by kick it off

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4 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Yep, real man of the people. Wonder why he is moving the money in his hedge fund out of the UK back into the EU if he is so sure of Brexit being a brilliant success. What a mystery hey?

He isn't moving money to Ireland -- he has had an office there for some considerable time.

As has been proven earlier in this thread -- ad nauseam.

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6 minutes ago, wooster said:

But that nice Mr Soros who made a fortune tanking the pound is now funding remain campaigns so he's OK.

Not sure who you think has said that. I've not seen anyone saying it.

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1 minute ago, Jools said:

He isn't moving money to Ireland -- he has had an office there for some considerable time.

As has been proven earlier in this thread -- ad nauseam.

That office was registered in March 2018. Is that a long time in your book? Good work adding "as proven" again to a lie to make it sound like a fact though.

And again, Jacob Rees Mogg  is definitely more interested in the UK and the common people than lining his pockets. Which is why he is so desperate to contribute his fair share of taxes to make Britain stronger. A generous man of considerable fortune who made sure he would contribute his fair share by registering his Somerset Capital Management company in Cayman and Singapore - aka off shore tax havens. 

You really are taken in by these toffs who pretend to care aren't you. Doesn't matter how transparent they are, you swallow it hook, line and sinker. First Nigel "hold my pint" Farage, and now Jacob "I'm such a regular guy I don't support abortion even in cases of rape and give my children names that are tantamount to child abuse" Rees-Mogg.

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According to Companies House, Somerset Capital Management is registered at 28 Ely Place (3rd Floor), London, EC1N 6TD under company number OC327862.

Rees-Mogg has less than 20% shareholding. London is not a tax haven. After Brexit we hope it will become one.

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7 hours ago, Jools said:

Please tell me you don't believe that, Herman.

Even your fellow Lefties here at the Pink'Un won't back you up on that one.

I don't have "fellow lefties". There are fellow posters on here that have a sensible outlook on life, coming from differing political viewpoints, but all with a similar view that Brexit is a terrible idea.

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7 hours ago, Jools said:

In total, Leave groups were far less well funded than Remaniac groups and the latter were backed up with 9 million pounds worth of public money -- as has been proven and discussed over & over throughout this thread.

And the notion that Leave groups incorporated Russian bots to sway opinion is f*cking ludicrous -- as has been proven and discussed over & over throughout this thread.

As for the 'Murdoch/right-wing papers' tired ol' meme – the Times and the Sunday Mail were/are pro-Remain, the BBC is the main news source for approximately 70% of people in the UK and is notoriously pro-EU, add to those the Lefty Channel4 & Sky and it makes one wonder how the Remaniacs lost the referendum.

To deny any of the above is to weaponise Right-wing politics.

Your choice 👍

Jools, you keep saying "as has been proven" yet have given no proof whatsoever.

Russian bots were all over twitter spreading false information, see the work of James Patrick and Mike Hind.

Millions was spent on targetted ads on fakebook and other social media, using stolen data. See the CA/AIQ/SCL scandal. See Arron Banks/Go Skippy ongoing scandal etc. See the work of Carle Cadwalladr, Peter Jukes, Peter Geoghegan etc.

The most read, most influential papers were all leave supporting. Mail, Sun, Telegraph (Express).

The BBC and it's balance meant it always had to have an two views on a subject, no matter if one was talikng out of it's backside. See the trouble it got into with Lord Lawson always invited on to talk about climate change.

And leave groups were massively funded, the problem being is that a lot is of unknown origin, and a lot was overspend, hence the massive fines for corruption.

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11 minutes ago, Herman said:

Jools, you keep saying "as has been proven" yet have given no proof whatsoever.

Russian bots were all over twitter spreading false information, see the work of James Patrick and Mike Hind.

Millions was spent on targetted ads on fakebook and other social media, using stolen data. See the CA/AIQ/SCL scandal. See Arron Banks/Go Skippy ongoing scandal etc. See the work of Carle Cadwalladr, Peter Jukes, Peter Geoghegan etc.

The most read, most influential papers were all leave supporting. Mail, Sun, Telegraph (Express).

The BBC and it's balance meant it always had to have an two views on a subject, no matter if one was talikng out of it's backside. See the trouble it got into with Lord Lawson always invited on to talk about climate change.

And leave groups were massively funded, the problem being is that a lot is of unknown origin, and a lot was overspend, hence the massive fines for corruption.

Sorry Herman but unless you say "as proven numerous times" then what you say is pure conjecture. It only becomes factual if you add 'as proven...'

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That's all they've got now, "as has been proven" and "but, but Soros" and they think the argument is won. Hopeless.

Anyway, here is another Brexit supporting hedge funder moving a large chunk of their estate to Dublin.

http://www.cityam.com/268888/hedge-fund-marshall-wace-expand-dublin-operation-brexit

So now we've got:

Lord Lawson  Moving to France.

John Redwood  Advising clients to move money out of Britain.

James Dyson  Moving car produstion to Singapore

Nigel Farage Getting German citizenship.

Arron Banks  Under investigation for multiple data breaches and electoral fraud.

Rees-Mogg  Company also moving a large part of funds to Dublin.

Sir Jim Ratcliffe Moving to Monaco.

Crispin Odey  Betting massively against Britain.

And last but not least, 9 different Brexit groups and right wing think tanks (TFA, IEA etc) all working from the same building, all regular appearers on BBC, all with friends in government, and in the Shahmir Sanni case, would rather admit guilt in court than give up the names of their funders.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/peter-geoghegan-adam-ramsay/revealed-how-uk-s-powerful-right-wing-think-tanks-and-conse

Something stinks, and it ain't just my feet.

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48 minutes ago, Herman said:

That's all they've got now, "as has been proven" and "but, but Soros" and they think the argument is won. Hopeless.

Anyway, here is another Brexit supporting hedge funder moving a large chunk of their estate to Dublin.

http://www.cityam.com/268888/hedge-fund-marshall-wace-expand-dublin-operation-brexit

So now we've got:

Lord Lawson  Moving to France.

John Redwood  Advising clients to move money out of Britain.

James Dyson  Moving car produstion to Singapore

Nigel Farage Getting German citizenship.

Arron Banks  Under investigation for multiple data breaches and electoral fraud.

Rees-Mogg  Company also moving a large part of funds to Dublin.

Sir Jim Ratcliffe Moving to Monaco.

Crispin Odey  Betting massively against Britain.

And last but not least, 9 different Brexit groups and right wing think tanks (TFA, IEA etc) all working from the same building, all regular appearers on BBC, all with friends in government, and in the Shahmir Sanni case, would rather admit guilt in court than give up the names of their funders.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/peter-geoghegan-adam-ramsay/revealed-how-uk-s-powerful-right-wing-think-tanks-and-conse

Something stinks, and it ain't just my feet.

Neatly proving my point that money has legs and can go where it will.

What do you intend to do about it?

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All it is proving is that a lot of wealthy men persuaded the country to do something and quickly left when the country did that thing. They've said how good Brexit is and how it will benefit the country so why aren't they sticking around and putting their money where their mouths are? Because they aren't stupid and they are wealthy enough to have the opportunity to clear out. The rest of us will have to bear the brunt of their actions.

What am I doing about it? Saving my money and learning French and German.😀

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1 minute ago, Herman said:

All it is proving is that a lot of wealthy men persuaded the country to do something and quickly left when the country did that thing. They've said how good Brexit is and how it will benefit the country so why aren't they sticking around and putting their money where their mouths are? Because they aren't stupid and they are wealthy enough to have the opportunity to clear out. The rest of us will have to bear the brunt of their actions.

What am I doing about it? Saving my money and learning French and German.😀

😀 Good thinking, but don't put all your eggs in one basket. Only two things certain in life, death and taxes.

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39 minutes ago, Herman said:

Good news Ricardo and your fellow Brexiters, the cavalry has arrived to improve the deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46243745

 

(I have a strange feeling that it may be a waste of time.)

My fallout shelter is fully stocked Herman. I am fully prepared and diversified for whatever happens.😎

Jezza's brother Piers has forecast the start of a new Ice Age starting about now. Are you prepared?😱⛄

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I am astounded that there seems to be little concern for the trickle down consequences of the movement of money.

For every action, there is a reaction. For someone to make money, then someone must lose. Unless this money doesn't exist of course which is even more obscene.

Betting on football, horses etc has very little consequence, maybe apart from those who gamble away their income, to the rest of the economy and its knock on effect for those holding up the rest of the iceberg.

A run on the pound because the City gets twitchy over a player taking, obviously not a gamble, can have dramatic consequences for those of us only able to spend what we have and dependent on our income from something much more intrinsic.

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12 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The way for NI and Scotland to leave the UK would be through a referendum on the question of independence. If I recall, there was no such question on the ballot paper to leave the EU. And last time the question was put to the Scots they decided to remain in the UK. Now it may happen at some future point that these two countries decide to leave the UK and that is up to them, I would stand by their decision. But to somehow equate a vote to remain in the EU is also a vote to leave the UK (suppose the UK voted by majority to remain, would you argue that NI/Scotland were voting for independence?) is muddled thinking of the highest order.

I wasn't making that equivalence at all - you were spouting a load of nonsense about the horrors of Northern Ireland being stuck in the Customs Union and I was pointing out that was exactly what they voted for, as did Scotland.

The huge irony (IMO) is that the idiot May has for two years been trying to negotiate a deal with special treatment for Northern Ireland (no border) whilst insisting that Northern Ireland must be treated in exactly the same way as the rest of the UK. Concurrent with this nonsense she has denied even the possibility that Scotland could have similar special treatment because the whole UK must be treated consistently - 'no British Prime Minister could do anything else' -  except of course where she wants to be inconsistent.

Clearly NI & Scotland will only leave the UK via independence referendums but Brexit makes it much more likely and May's handling of Brexit has been an absolute gift to the nationalists in both countries.

Edited by Creative Midfielder

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13 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I could have called CM a tent maker 😀

You could, although when many, many years ago the boy scouts set me the task of building a shelter from whatever I could find in a forest in the winter and sleeping in it for a night I did suceed but only to the extent that I woke up the next morning with a layer of snow covering my sleeping bag.

So a success more for my ability to sleep almost anywhere than my tent making ability - ramshackle shelter maker would be closer to the mark but thank you anyway 😀

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18 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

You could, although when many, many years ago the boy scouts set me the task of building a shelter from whatever I could find in a forest in the winter and sleeping in it for a night I did suceed but only to the extent that I woke up the next morning with a layer of snow covering my sleeping bag.

So a success more for my ability to sleep almost anywhere than my tent making ability - ramshackle shelter maker would be closer to the mark but thank you anyway 😀

Tentmaking is an ancient and honourable profession, CM, and it was brave of you to have a bash. The Persian poet and scientist Omar Khayyam was born into a family of tentmakers, hence the surname.

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3 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Tentmaking is an ancient and honourable profession, CM, and it was brave of you to have a bash. The Persian poet and scientist Omar Khayyam was born into a family of tentmakers, hence the surname.

Well I never - didn't know that 😁

I've always found that the old adage 'you learn something new everyday' to be true but the source isn't usually the Pink Un!

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57 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I am astounded that there seems to be little concern for the trickle down consequences of the movement of money.

For every action, there is a reaction. For someone to make money, then someone must lose. Unless this money doesn't exist of course which is even more obscene.

Betting on football, horses etc has very little consequence, maybe apart from those who gamble away their income, to the rest of the economy and its knock on effect for those holding up the rest of the iceberg.

A run on the pound because the City gets twitchy over a player taking, obviously not a gamble, can have dramatic consequences for those of us only able to spend what we have and dependent on our income from something much more intrinsic.

In a betting situation it takes two to tango. If you bet that A will happen somebody has to take the view that it won't. What actually happens decides who wins and who loses. In the currency market thousands of players in a multitude of countries are making these huge bets all the time. That is why currencies fluctuate and how their relative value is discovered. Its rather naive to suggest one hedge fund manager can have anything other than a marginal effect. There are literally trillions of pounds involved in this every single day.

As for trickle down. If your currecy goes down your exports become cheaper and your imports become dearer and vice versa when your currency goes up. What is gained on the swings is lost on the roundabout.

A hundred or so years ago their were four dollars to the pound ( thats why the old pre decimal half crown that some of us remember, was often referred to a half a dollar.) KG, you can probably remember yourself back in the 1950's when the pound still bought 2.80 dollars. Was the average man in the street better off then or now?

Written answers please, preferrably on the back of a five pound note.😉

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16 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Well I never - didn't know that 😁

I've always found that the old adage 'you learn something new everyday' to be true but the source isn't usually the Pink Un!

Bill will be disappointed to hear you say that😁

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14 hours ago, kick it off said:

This is a guy who loves Britain so much he said he would leave if the tax rate hit 50%. Which is obviously perfectly reasonable as that would eat into a good chunk of his MASSIVE salary. Poor oik is probably strapped though, he took a £6million pay cut a few years ago leaving him on just under £10 mill per year. He probably had to sell that £100,000 CHICKEN COOP he bought for his mansion too.

So we're talking about a guy who voted for Brexit, and funded a substantial part of the leave campaign who would leave the country to avoid paying a bit more tax, despite having billions. Made £220 million from shorting the pound in dubious circumstances when  Farage made his early concession.

Funnily enough, he also had "special access" to Brexit ministers. I'm sure he was lobbying for the greater good in those conversations. Funnily enough he was keen to support leave as the EU had additional hedge fund regulation in it's sights. Even funnier still, he was previously married to Rupert Murdoch's daughter.

He warned his clients to prepare for a recession and higher inflation in the wake of Brexit so he knew full well what he was doing. Funnily enough he is backing EU shares to do well whilst betting against every major British brand. 

He is literally betting huge stakes (500million and counting) against the UK doing well, and then campaigning for Brexit to ensure that he wins. You think that this kind of behaviour is inevitable, and conscientious then that is your prerogative. Most people are capable of seeing that this f**kwit is profiteering from making the UK a worse place for millions of people, and putting millions of people who are poorer than him at risk of poverty.

I'm at a loss Ricardo as to how you can't see that this is wrong. Guess some people are happy to just continue watching the rich screw the country to line their own pockets, and then protest how grateful we should be to them. 

As for the teachers pensions - personally I believe that the UK would do better from having a strong economy than relying on d**ks like Odey to keep gambling and getting lucky (His fund lost 30% of it's value in two years so he isn't that lucky!). I think a strong economy comes from a plurality of strong industries, most of which Odey is betting against in the hope that they fail.

Of course, KIO has copy and pasted this info from a leftie source with again not thinking it through clearly. He is trying to equate the actions of someone who financially backed the leave campaign with betting that the pound would fall. Because KIO didn't check the facts behind this story but took it verbatim (in the same way he didn't check the fact that the registered head office of Somerset Capital Management is in London) then he failed to know that Odey backed the leave campaign financially before the referendum on 23 June 2016 (obviously) but he didn't start speculating on the fall of the pound until after the referendum date. Which means he took one look at a Remain-leaning Prime minister in charge of Brexit and decided (even as she was saying Brexit means Brexit) that Ms. May was not to be trusted. A very clever and pragmatic chap who turned out to have better judgement than most.

On the other hand we have a certain Mr. George Soros (who is not British unlike Yorkshire-born Mr. Odey) who not only financed the the Remain campaign (and lost a lot of money on the result of the referendum, who continues to pour money into the Remain side long after the referendum vote. Every time you see Tony Blair in a Better for Britain advertisement, be aware that the former Prime Minister and war criminal is being paid by Soros to lie to you, to subvert democracy in order to help Soros claw back his losses on the Brexit result. The fact that Soros has put $400k into Better for Britain gives an indication of how much he has lost.

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LOL. Just admit you've been conned by a load of greedy shysters, spivs and conmen and we can all move on and MUKGA👍

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2 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I wasn't making that equivalence at all - you were spouting a load of nonsense about the horrors of Northern Ireland being stuck in the Customs Union and I was pointing out that was exactly what they voted for, as did Scotland.

The huge irony (IMO) is that the idiot May has for two years been trying to negotiate a deal with special treatment for Northern Ireland (no border) whilst insisting that Northern Ireland must be treated in exactly the same way as the rest of the UK. Concurrent with this nonsense she has denied even the possibility that Scotland could have similar special treatment because the whole UK must be treated consistently - 'no British Prime Minister could do anything else' -  except of course where she wants to be inconsistent.

Clearly NI & Scotland will only leave the UK via independence referendums but Brexit makes it much more likely and May's handling of Brexit has been an absolute gift to the nationalists in both countries.

But you were making that equivalence CM. 

You said "since both Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to remain in the EU then you could say that it's a very elegant way of honouring 'the will of the people'"

And when I replied by pointing out:

"your answer suggests that you are quite happy to see the break up of Northern Ireland and Scotland as part of the United Kingdom"

You replied "I would be perfectly happy to see Northern Ireland and Scotland leave, not because I have any axe to grind one way or the other, but because I happen to believe they have the same right to independence from a political union that is not in their best interests"

There's no other way of reading that without coming to the conclusion you equated a vote to remain in the EU as a vote to leave the UK for NI/Scotland

Edited by Rock The Boat

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2 hours ago, ricardo said:

My fallout shelter is fully stocked Herman. I am fully prepared and diversified for whatever happens.😎

Jezza's brother Piers has forecast the start of a new Ice Age starting about now. Are you prepared?😱⛄

Just bought two new pairs of combat trousers. Comfortable, warm and with so many pockets that it is possible to lose a few tins of bully beef, which may come in handy later.

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3 minutes ago, Herman said:

LOL. Just admit you've been conned by a load of greedy shysters, spivs and conmen and we can all move on and MUKGA👍

We've been conned by Theresa May and her Civil Service cohorts. You should check out what her former aide (Christopher Timothy?) has to say about her duplicity, He doesn't hold back in his contempt for Oily Robbins.

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10 minutes ago, Herman said:

Just bought two new pairs of combat trousers.

 

Will clash a bit with your pink p u s s y  hat.

Edited by Jools

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9 minutes ago, Herman said:

Just bought two new pairs of combat trousers. Comfortable, warm and with so many pockets that it is possible to lose a few tins of bully beef, which may come in handy later.

Very sensible

See you on the other side of the Apocalypse⚡⚡

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7 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

We've been conned by Theresa May and her Civil Service cohorts. You should check out what her former aide (Christopher Timothy?) has to say about her duplicity, He doesn't hold back in his contempt for Oily Robbins.

image.png.e81592407c06574677ec39af2dda5e25.png

Brexit means Brexit.

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24 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

We've been conned by Theresa May and her Civil Service cohorts. You should check out what her former aide (Christopher Timothy?) has to say about her duplicity, He doesn't hold back in his contempt for Oily Robbins.

 

Well Christopher Timothy must be well used to dealing with farmyard animals and being up to his knees in  bulls**t .

  • Haha 1

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