Making Plans 929 Posted November 27, 2005 What if we''d have got a penalty at Millwall, what if the "goal" had been given at Coventry, what if we didn''t have any injuries, what if we didn''t keep giving teams a head start, what if this, what if that - the list is endless. As the Club have absolutely no contol over these events, it''s a complete waste of time pondering what would have happened if things had been different. All this does is cloud the real issues.Why doesn''t the Club simply concentrate on the things it can control for a change. In football, as in life, if you want to be succesful then you have to make things happen and you do this by changing things that are within your control.It''s no good just gnashing your teeth and wringing your hands in anguish and "hope" things "might" get better. You have to take positive action do something to change things round.What if we had a new Manager ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Rider 0 Posted November 28, 2005 This is an excellent post and deserves some responses.You have used the word ''hope'' and isn''t it striking the number of times that people within the club (Delia Smith, Worthy, Foley, Livermore) have ALL used this tired, worn out word to justify keeping the status quo. If the last book that Delia sold had a 22% success rate (that''s the approx. % of league games won since the start of last season), I would imagine she would have a long look at what had gone wrong! We have had a bad run of injuries of that there is no doubt but I can''t recall anyone saying 2 years ago that ....''Worthy doesn''t deserve all this praise as he has been incredibly lucky with injuries''. Anyone who had said that would have been hounded out of town. He (and the club) simply can''t have it both ways! To day I have read that Worthy is now complaining about .....''the ridiculous number of games players are asked to play''. HOW PATHETIC! This division has had 24 teams for years, I didn''t hear any complaints 2 years ago? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I am a Banana (All Grown Up) 0 Posted November 28, 2005 wat if u were not so against ncfc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macdougalls perm 0 Posted November 28, 2005 To making Plans... I think that both of those what ifs are valid and we would have had another 5 points "if" we hadn''t been stitched. Admittedly, there is nothing that can be done about it now but do you really think that people shouldn''t be allowed to discuss the matter for fear of offending you.....I don''t think so pal! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Making Plans 929 Posted November 28, 2005 [quote user="spud nud"]wat if u were not so against ncfc[/quote]I am not against NCFC - I''ve been a supporter, through occasional thick and lots of thin since 1956 - my first game.What I am against however is seeing our Club go down the pan while the numpty''s, who are supposed to be in charge, sit back, say very little and do even less.Any other Club would have dumped their Manager by now - it might not have worked but at least they would have tried.That''s all I ask and I don''t think that it is unreasonable. Because if nothing is done I fear that it will take us years to recover from the situation that is starring us in the face.We''ve endured this rubbish for long enough now - nothing has changed since the start of the season - I see not the slightest thread of evidence that things are improving, in fact if anything, we''re getting worse.Times up - we''ve got absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Barman 0 Posted November 28, 2005 In response to your original post MPFN, good stuff, I''d like you to expand on it a little yourself, if possible.I''d like to encourage people from both sides of the Worthington Divide(or Grand Canyon might be closer to the truth!) to stick the one issuethey can''t agree on, to one side for a moment.If the managerial position remains unchanged, what other steps arepossible to improve our fortunes? Are there ways to assist the coaches?Does anyone have a pet plan - preferably not involving hamsters - thatthey''d like to see implemented? Let''s get outside our usual boxes for awhile and see if we can come up with something else to suggest.Paul McKenna anyone?OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rudolph Hucker 0 Posted November 28, 2005 Any other Club would have dumped their Manager by now - it might not have worked but at least they would have tried.What if it didn''t???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E I E I E I O 0 Posted November 28, 2005 At least we would have a manager with an eye for talent and 2 footballing braincells! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rudolph Hucker 0 Posted November 28, 2005 [quote user="Ian Farrow"]At least we would have a manager with an eye for talent and 2 footballing braincells![/quote]That would be David Pleat then! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E I E I E I O 0 Posted November 28, 2005 Rudolph,I would rather have the camel in your picture than Worthy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rudolph Hucker 0 Posted November 29, 2005 The camel has repeatedly failed it''s coaching badges but it can spit further than Etuhu. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rieg77 0 Posted November 29, 2005 Which is probably exactly what the Sunderland fans and West Ham fans were saying 2 years ago about McCarthy and Pardew. Were you saying it 2 years ago about Worthy? Didn''t thikn so. Its easy to criticise when things are not going so well.A lot of people keep quoting Palace 2 seasons ago as an example of what can be achieved if a change is made. True, but I think you''ll find that they are the exception to the rule. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sheded 0 Posted November 29, 2005 [quote user="Fat Barman"]In response to your original post MPFN, good stuff, I''d like you to expand on it a little yourself, if possible.I''d like to encourage people from both sides of the Worthington Divide (or Grand Canyon might be closer to the truth!) to stick the one issue they can''t agree on, to one side for a moment.If the managerial position remains unchanged, what other steps are possible to improve our fortunes? Are there ways to assist the coaches? Does anyone have a pet plan - preferably not involving hamsters - that they''d like to see implemented? Let''s get outside our usual boxes for a while and see if we can come up with something else to suggest.Paul McKenna anyone?OTBC[/quote]My two penn`th then Barman ....Leave off with the strict physical training routine , all it does is nacker the players , and injure them ! ...concentrate totally on skill training , especially shots at the goal from all angles , we would still be in the prem if the strikers had put away the sitters !! tick follows tock ... the more goals we get , the more the morale of the team rises , and the confidence !! Stick Hucks up front with Deano and Mcveigh et al , putting Hucks out there on the left wing isn`t working , he`s getting kicked all over the field because the defenders want to disable him before he gets near the penalty area ... if Hucks keeps near the box they`ll have to think twice about risking a free kick or a penalty , make no mistake , he STILL scares the crap out of the defenders .Rest Greeno ! he`s not the best goalkeeper in this league , by a long shot ! and is the one constant in our dismal goals against , Nigel should take another look at Greeno`s record this season , and last , and give the gloves to one of the other keepers we have .... face it could he really be any worse ?? If Nigel has one big fault its misguided loyalty ! granted he`s looking for a settled same eleven , but if a player is not doing the business , he should be replaced , even if they are fresh out the academy ! there`s definately far to little competion for places in our team , so the crap players will continue to play crap , confident that they are immune from the bench .IMO we have had FAR too many loan players !! they are NOT team players , and will tend to destroy teamwork , because they are not interested in anything except their own hides .....[6] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old Boy 0 Posted November 29, 2005 1. We need to do more training on set-pieces - we have no routines planned for free-kicks, and even throw-ins seem often to be chaotic.2. We need to get to the bottom of the injuries that happen during training, and those strains that happen during games. Something may be wrong in the training routines or the warm-up or warm-down routines.3. Dunno about Deano, but Nigel certainly needs to develop a nasty streak. I agree with Sheded about misguided loyalty getting in the way, but he also needs to scare the likes of McVeigh, potentially one of City''s biggest assets, to get off their backsides and work for him, the team, and us. BTW I wonder what NW would have to say if Deano did what Shearer did on Saturday.4. Use Hux as a sub (already mooted here), and start with McVeigh on the left, Thorne and Ashton up front, and Hendo on the right. If necessary, replace McVeigh or Hendo with Hux at half time.5. I don''t agree about loan players being bad for the team, in fact I think that we''ve got good value from the loans such as Marney, Davenport, Etuhu and now Robinson. If you have an injury crisis and you can''t buy, what else can you do?6. Buy Davenport and (may be too early to say this, but...) Robinson in January.7. Do more analysis of the opposition prior to matches, and vary the tactics to suit. It''s no good saying "they set out to stop us playing, flooded midfield, got 10 men behind the ball" etc. There are ways of countering those tactics.8. Never ever fall in to the trap, if we''re a goal down, of hoofing the ball up into the area. If that tactic doesn''t bring a goal in the eighth or the eighteenth minute, why should it bring one in the eightieth? I hate it when Neil Adams says "there''s ten minutes to go and they''ll have to go Route One". All that ever happens is we lose possession. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gazzathegreat 0 Posted November 29, 2005 BarmanIf the managerial position remains unchanged then I guess we really will all have to hope (to use a much maligned phrase at the moment) that things do start turning around for the better.IMO it isn''t just about the manager now, it''s about the integrity of the whole club, of course things were rosy in the garden during and after the promotion, and for a few brief moments in the prem, but now they''re not and at the top level some real honest thinking needs to be done.Munby and co have to look at a few issuesAmbition - is all we can hope for a mid table finish, did they honestly think we could do no better than this at the start of the season? If so, what brought them to that conclusion and what would encourage them to think we could do better than that, the appointment of another manager with more experience/hunger? Better players, what?Funds - where exactly are we going with the money, one week we are told there is nothing left, then another loan player appears. If there is money there can they think of better ways of spending it rather than let Worthy loan in another bit part player. Maybe, as someone suggested, they should implement a better coaching system, overhaul the whole training regime and look at other clubs for fresh ideas.The fans - long suffering we maybe, but not entirely stupid. What if things get worse and a few thousand go away. So at the moment there are several on a waiting list, but will they all take up their season ticket? Can the board say that the level of income generated by us, the season ticket holder and member is going to remain stable given the likelihood of a similar season next year if they make no changes this time?Their position within the club - to me this is the most important. As well as the stuff we have seen on the pitch, I think this season marks the end of a very long honeymoon period enjoyed by the board - despite some quite dire results and goings on, the board have more or less told us, don''t worry we''ll just stick together and everything will be okay. What if things don''t improve, what then? Do we just all go down cheering and muttering things about loyalty and stability. Whatever happens from now on I think Munby and co have some real soul searching to do. They have, on the back of a heady season saddled this club with a very long contract given to a man who is now not delivering the goods, despite their fine words about backing him surely they must be wondering what if, what if things don''t get better, what the hell are we going to do to get rid? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Making Plans 929 Posted November 30, 2005 [quote user="Fat Barman"]In response to your original post MPFN, good stuff, I''d like you to expand on it a little yourself, if possible.I''d like to encourage people from both sides of the Worthington Divide (or Grand Canyon might be closer to the truth!) to stick the one issue they can''t agree on, to one side for a moment.If the managerial position remains unchanged, what other steps are possible to improve our fortunes? Are there ways to assist the coaches? Does anyone have a pet plan - preferably not involving hamsters - that they''d like to see implemented? Let''s get outside our usual boxes for a while and see if we can come up with something else to suggest.Paul McKenna anyone?OTBC[/quote]Many thanks for your support Fat Barman - there have been some interesting replies to your request for "thinking outside the box" and I can go along with a lot of what''s been suggested.However, it does bring you back to one fundamental question, who is going to implement these measures if it''s not the Manager.Sort of brings us back to the beginning don''t you think ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morph 19 Posted November 30, 2005 FB, you asked for people to make suggestions on changes given that the colours seem to be firmly posted to the Worthy mast.I would ask who is the person most responsible for first team coaching. If it''s Foley then Worthy could look at seeing if a change in his immediate staff would bring rewards. A fresh look at the training, the coaching and the style of play may help the situation. By all accounts the way the side under Williams is playing might warrant getting input from him on what changes could be made.Other than that. I don''t think a director of football will help - you get into internal arguments over who has control of how the first team plays. A sports psychologist from outside might help, but perhaps the players have had it all before. I thought Carolan was a sports fitness specialist which begs the question why we are having so many injuries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Barman 0 Posted November 30, 2005 Thank you to all those who took up the challenge - I''ve read the ideas with a great deal of interest, as well as an open mind.Sheded - I know nothing about training, but it certainly seems we''remissing something. Apparently it''s the same routines as the previoustwo years, maybe we were just lucky before. We always used to get groinstrains in new signings, because our stretching routine was faulty -maybe some of the new lads could be asked about warm-up routines atother clubs? - we each have our favourite formations, perhaps if we could stick to one for a few games it would help! There seems to be a muddle on the pitch with people often unsure where there mates are. - Misguidedloyalty. I agree it seems Greeno (amongst others) might benefit from acouple of games on the bench, as Hucks seemed to after suspension. Thepossible problem is that we have so many enforced changes that it''stempting to go for continuity in the one area we''ve not lost a playerto injury!Old Boy - The point about set pieces was very well made. I''d forgottenthat it''s been one of my pet peeves since ''chippy'' left that we appearto be clueless when a free-kick is awarded (beyond a thump at goal). Iremember we had a few routines (including a cracker with Chippy &Bowen) that would result in a dozen goals per season when put together.How we could use some invention right now. - I alsothink we don''t analyse opposition strengths & weaknesses enough.It''s all very well saying we ''play our game and let them worry about us..''but again flexibility is key and a change of attack strategy against aweak left-back, say, by switching Hucks for 15 minute spells could paydividends. When was the last time our wide players (genuine orotherwise) switched sides during a game? It always upsets defenders and is worth a try.Gazza - you raise a good question about ambition from theboardroom, most supporters would agree with you I feel. I don''t knockthe prudence, but it''s sometimes difficult to spot the ambition. If youaim for the highest point you may not achieve it, but you usually getfurther than just aiming half-way. - Worthy''scontract question has now been answered, 12 months rolling, so not thelong deal that had been mooted.MakingPlans - maybe it is down to the manager at the end of theday. The question you ask may be answered by the current boss. He hasproved capable of listening before and may do again. I may be toosympathetic to him, but I don''t think he''s as closed off to new ideasas he appears, just one of those who likes time to consider beforeaccepting a proposed change. For his sake, I hope I''m right.My big idea is a simple one employed elsewhere (sometimesdisastrously!). Next chance they get the boys should go off (in the UK,not La Manga) for a few days doing something totally divorced fromfootball. Not as a team building exercise - God knows we''re told how''together'' they are often enough! - but to build morale, to put a smileon their faces for once, to let off steam and remember they enjoythe bloody game! You don''t need to wait for a relegation struggle tomaterialise before trying this - it might just prevent one.Thank you all, again, for your time and ideas, this has been a breath of fresh air. I must pull some pints now, before I get sacked! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites