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Greg Norman

From an Evertonian

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I have followed the "racist Norwich fans" debate on here and elsewhere. As expected there is a mixed bag. Some very PC types, a few well out of order, but mostly "normal" fans. But overall you Canaries should be ashamed of yerselves... whether racist chants were made or not you have drawn ranks and started a damage limitation exercise. Most on here have obviously decided that that is what to do rather than denounce any racists you might have amongst you.

1) How can "Fat" be mistaken for "Black"? In any accent? Scouse? Norfolk? the Queen''s English? Give me a break.
2) A bottle was thrown. Most on here have tried to white-wash over that. Clearly not all Canaries are well behaved. The stewards at EFC are generally an understanding and friendly lot (Scousers generally are believe it or not). If that had happened at some grounds they would have steamed in and arrested anything that protested. I have seen that happen elsewhere.
3) It has been admitted here that "Paki" comments were made by Norwich fans. England got in real trouble after the Turkey game in Sunderland for chants like "I''d rather be a Paki than a Turk"
4) Disgracefully, some of you have tried to move the debate to one of obstructed views and poor seating. That is a separate issue. You probably know that Everton have been trying to get a new stadium but have not got a bean to spend.

I will simply say FACE THE ISSUE! Whether you like it or not you are now tarnished and it is best you tackle it head on rather than make it worse by slagging off Rooney, Goodison Park etc.

Good luck.

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So Greg, how''s the golf getting on? still an underachiever? still wearing that silly hat and calling yourself ''The Great White Shark''?. Get off this website and back on the course if you persist with accusations relating to racism.

On a lighter note concerning your new stadium........ word has it that you want to become a tennant of Liverpool''s new Stanley Park stadium, nothing like jumping on the Bandwagon!. Just get with the script and face it that you are nearer tranmere then the red 3/4 of merseyside.

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1) The last time Norwich had a racism problem was in 2000 when ONE chap got kicked out of the ground (and banned for three years) for making racist remarks. God knows when the time before that was, but it is generally accepted by everyone who knows anything about the issue that Norwich fans aren''t racist. Odd how large numbers of fans suddenly start abusing a player......

2) Yep, that was unnaceptable, and the perpetrator should have been arrested

3) Apparently these comments were made once by one or two blokes and never repeated. Bad news but I wouldn''t exactly call it a huge racism problem

4) Some of the seats were awful for that price. I hardly think that''s a conspiracy to cover up the conversation.

We are facing the issue, the club are taking this one ver seriously, as we have an OUTSTANDING reputation to protect

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We are ''drawing ranks'' because (in case you hadn''t noticed) we are appalled at being accused of racism. There is a reason for this - and I hope my fellow fans won''t mind me speaking for them - and it is because we are not racists, never have been, never will be. I doubt you''ll find a ground anywhere in this country that doesn''t have at least one person with racist views, but I can safely say we are VERY proud of our reputation as supporters and if anyone did say anything then we are truly ashamed. However, they do not represent the massive majority of us and I for one would not tolerate sitting in the same ground as them. I would like to think that, in fact I''m sure that had any of our fans sung what they are accused of, we would have noticed if only because there would have been enough of us objecting to what they were singing.
I had a great time at Everton, I drank with your fans before and after the game and found the place to be very friendly. I didn''t and don''t tar you with the ''you''re all thieves'' brush so don''t start doing the same to us. And remember, it wasn''t so long ago that you were making monkey noises at John Barnes. Grow up.

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Point 1) Latest reports state that the police have denied hearing any racist chanting. The people persisting with the allegations are national press reporters,a safety officer,and stewards. I would therefore suggest that it is safe to assume that these people were,unlike the police,in other parts of the stadium and misheard a chant which only lasted a few seconds and was aimed at Rooney,not Yobo.

Point 2) See point 4.

Point 3) I believe you are referring to a post by a Norwich fan that 3 people behind him tried to start a chant "I`d rather be a Paki than a Scouse" and that people around them immediately got them to "shut up". I think that in anyones terms they FACED THE ISSUE!

Point 3) Disgracefully, you appear to be trying to link the throwing of a plastic bottle on to the pitch with racist behavoir/chanting. The throwing of a bottle cannot be condoned, but to try and use that to back up an unproved assumption that there was a problem with racist chanting at the game is pathetic. Your argument would carry more weight if you stuck to it.

You seem to be implying that there is now some sort of cover-up going on, which is as offensive to Norwich fans as the original unsubstantiated allegations. BELIEVE ME, if these allegations were true these boards would be FULL of people expressing their shame and disgust at the antics of fellow Norwich fans-and i would be among them.

Has it not occurred to you that if the Merseyside police, many well-respected members of the City contingent-including an off-duty police officer, and-apparently-most Everton fans on other message boards, think that there has been a mistake that,in fact, there might have been one? And i think City fans have every right to "draw ranks" to defend themselves against damaging and false allegations. "Whether you like it or not you are now tarnished": yes, it seems we are, mainly because of people like you, who seem prepared to jump to grand assumptions before any proof has been given.

Hopefully this debacle will be cleared up by the powers that be listening back to a recording of the game. Having been there,with many friends dotted around the away section, i am 100% CERTAIN that our innocence will be proved.

I trust that in that event you will have the good grace to come on here and apologise.

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Mr Evertonian

I think you will now be starting to see that we have no intention of sweeping these allegations under the carpet or trying to dilute the seriousness in anyway.

I was at the game and heard none of the chants that are being reported, but then if you look at some of the reporting of that game you wonder if most of the press were there anyway.

Were you at the game? Did you hear it? and if you did where were you sitting?

As for the throwing incidents........ all i can say is numpty''s, hopefully cameras caught them and they will be dealt with so that the real Yellow army don''t get punished.

Apart from that thank you for a top day, good natured drink and sing song in the pub b4 hand and a good game of footie, hopefully you appreciate that all the norwich fans (apart from the smallest minoirty possible) were good natured passionate fans who were there to sing and support there team.

Best of luck on the new ground, and best of luck in the premiership

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But we are not talking about any one individual, the reports I have read, say chants.. which to me speaks of a crowd singing... Blimey it is already been said by countless numbers of people who were there, that it wasn''t a racist chant comment ...

From my understanding it was supposed to heard in the press box, which if I am right is the the other side of the pitch.. strange senior police officers on our side of the pitch never heard anything...Nor the stewards sitting around us in the disabled area. Our own Roy Waller and Neil Adams were in that same press area...has anyone heard what they have to say about it.

According to the tone of the starter of this thread we are guilty..what happened to innocent until proven guilty......

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I have been to Norwich matches for over 10 years mainly sitting in the lower barclay and the only vaguely racist chant I have ever heard (if it could be called racist at all) was

''Hes got a malteser on his head''

To a hairless Richard Rufus. Which was quite funny and really not at all racist.

I have NEVER heard a racist chant at carrow road. When I heard about this I just could not believe it. Hell some of our best players like Fox, Ekoku, Kenton, Francis, even the crowd loving Neilson and new signing and GOAL MACHINE Mckenzie are black!!

If it was a couple of idiots then hopefully they will be found shopped and prosecutedand barred from Carrow Road for life.

As for people chucking stuff, hopefully they are caught on camera or shopped as we do not need supposed fans like these kinds of idiots.

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I have to say that i moved this season because last season i was in block a of the lower barclay and there was this one man that constantly made comments at the top of his voice saying things such as book the black c@@t anyone heard it coz if u have lets catch him out and get him out. I did report it 2 a steward but obviously nothing was done please does anyone else sit there and have herd it

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I think it is equally disgraceful that people like Greg can claim "we are tarnished" despite the fact they are simply allegations and it seems from reading all the media discourse etc that it will be cleared up soon. Greg is correct in one sense, yes all racism is totally unacceptable and therefore I would have thought he would be one of the last to make a comment knowing that nothing has been proven and as we all know the Norwich fans have a very good behavioural record.

On a side note I think that from the digusted reaction from fans on all messageboards it has shown that people want to stamp out racism and the message is getting through.

Anyway, I am simply saying that no club wants these allegations, because of the nature of them, and thus I wonder how Greg would feel if Norwich made potentially false allegations against Everton and then went on one of their websites saying how disgusted we are.

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Hi Greg. Can''t really add more than has been said in reply my fellow NCFC supporters. Do think the response suggests we are doing anything by trying to ''sweep it under he carpet''. I''m just wondering if you are going to respond, or are just going to ''have a go'' then slip away because you can''t cope with the well made points in the responses??? I would genuinely like to know what you think of the replies?

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greg,
i cant add anymore to what everyone else has said so far, except that, last week, on the official norwich message board, there was one of your lads on there, basically winding everyone up. he eventually got taken off after writing some chant you lot apparently do at your derby games, which involves rather less than complimentary things sung about heskey, if you get my drift....
i would say go have a look for yourself, but it isnt there anymore, unlike our so-called rascist chanting, which wasn''t there in the first place.
i hate to end on a couple of cliches but...
i know 2 wrongs do not make a right, but people in glass houses.......

by the way he called himself evertonrw18 if it rings any bells on your message boards.
OTBC

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I have been reading this and the other topic of racist abuse for a while and I have a few points to make.

As a club I think Norwich go to great lengths to keep all prejudices out of Carrow Road, during the mid 90''s we had the highest percentage of female attendees in the country.

I have never encountered racism, sexism etc at Carrow Road. I could reel off a massive list of Black players who have played for City and one of them was homosexual! I can''t remember any prejudice against Justin Fashanu at all.

If anyone did say anything racist then I hope they are punished but I don''t think you can go around claiming the whole club is tarnished. No club can control the views of their supporters, all they can do is punish those whose cause trouble, whether it is for fighting, racist abuse or throwing bottles.

To your last point Greg, it is true that poor seating is a separate issue, so why have you not just left it instead of initiating some sort of conversation about it. Poor little Everton have no money boo hoo hoo, we want to move stadium but we can''t afford it boo hoo hoo, that really tugs on my heart strings, if I had a violin I would play a sad song for Everton FC. How horrible it must be at Everton at the moment with all your multimillion-pound squad and international players. If you sold Rooney, you would generate enough funds for new players and a new ground or maybe you should start a "Save the Endangered Everton Fund"
When City had no money the fans got behind the clubs share scheme and invested their money to give funds to the club!

Well that''s all I have to say, I think I will go away and cry a tear for Everton and pray that one day they get that new ground they’ve wanted for Christmas for so, so long! (Fade out to lone violin solo)

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An Ipswich fan (poor quality argument giving the game away) trying to wind a few people up? If not;

1) Easily - how often do you go to games? Sometimes working out new chants from your home supporters can be tricky let alone opposition fans. In this case it''s a well known & used one (the "fat" version, thankfully the racist version has all but died out) and still there''s no unanimity on the issue amongst those that were there, proof if proof be needed. Eyes & ears can deceive.

2) "A" bottle. Well, I''ll be blowed. Forgive me, but 30,000 people and thats the worst that happened. Ever been out in Liverpool on a ..any night? Seen any Italian/Turkish/Spanish matches ever? Your holier than thou attitude is pompous and ridiculous. Football is still attended by human beings. Majority male. Or am I sexist now?

3) 3,000+ away fans and a couple of idiots. 27,000+ home fans and no idiots - hmmm. You use the word tarnish expressly at City fans. Were you born just before the match? Football has been tarnished by hooliganism, racism, cheating, bribes, drugs, match fixing...

4) ?? Not really sure where you are coming from on that one.


There is no moral high ground in football for you to claim. Ignorance pervades all corners of society. A bit of perspective please.

Racist chanting is unacceptable. "Size-ist" chanting, "Anti-referee" chanting should probably be outlawed too. What about personal insults to opposition players.

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