Doncaster's press statement

[No Mad 0]

Any views on this?

Personally, I appreciated the clear statement on three issues where rumours had been circulating. I think we need more of this. I think this could be done on the official website, which desperately needs to be made more interesting and informative - and/or through ''press releases'' to the bulletin boards most of which have some kind of administrator/moderator.

I think the club is considerably behind the game on the issue of bulletin boards. They put a huge amount of work into traditional print, radio and TV media but largely overlook the more informal side of the Internet which more and more people now use as a primary source of information (perhaps along with Sky Sports News?). Some are grasping the value of this kind of medium, e.g. Adrian Coote''s recent thank you but as far as I know the club don''t use these channels for communicating at all. I think this messgae from Neil and the recent statement from Delia, for example, would have been more powerful if also posted on bulletin boards like this, giving us the right to reply/comment (which we will take anyway, no doubt!).

My concern is that the club seems to be coming over as anti-bulletin board, in general, and anti-''anonymous'' posters like me, in particular. However, on this they risk not only being like Canute trying to stop the waves but also missing a potentially huge opportunity to communicate effectively with a large number of people who care passionately about the club.

I think this is a relatively responsible and informative message board, which is why I choose to use it. I feel the club could contribute its views here more positively and consistently rather than simply asking Archant not to post commentary weblinks and attacking all nickname-cloaked users, when the vast majority of them have never circulated the rumours in question and, in my case were actually unaware of some of them!

[Saint Canary 0]

I don''t really see that Doncaster should have to come out and rubbish these rumours, as after all they were just rumours.  You wonder whether this just about diverting attention away from real footballing issues.  They have picked up this baton and are running with it, at the same not addressing the more major concerns.

In regards to the club using the Official website better, I could not agree more.  I expect to see much on there.  After all the do have access to all the information don''t they?  Statements posted on there from Worthy about how he feels he can turn things around or what he is doing to get us up the league would be great.

They could also once a week run a 1hr Q&A session live via the internet with the manager, players, Delia etc.  This works well on other sites, Delia for instance did it on her own site a few years back.  This would really connect the club with fans and I really feel that some fans would relish this.

[gazzathegreat 0]

I haven''t read Doncaster''s statement as yet, but wanted to make a point about Saint Canary''s suggestion re a Q and A session on the internet.  This would be a good move and is, as Saint says, quite common elsewhere, though probably on more important topics than football.

The feelling of connection is important, and I feel very let down at the moment by the club.  Yes, they (publically anyway) don''t share my opinion regarding our management team and what to do to solve the crisis, but come February will be writing me very nice letters asking for me to re-invest in season tickets.  At the moment I personally am considering writing a long letter to Munby and asking for a personal meeting, just so I can get things off my chest and at least feel I have done all I can personally do to keep peace with myself. 

The introduction of a live link to club directors, Delia, Nigel, whoever would be a step forward.  The AGM was, after all, just for shareholders who could manage to get to Norfolk on a Monday night, which, in itself, left a large part of our fanbase without a chance to say what they felt.

[ZLF 271]

[quote]Any views on this? Personally, I appreciated the clear statement on three issues where rumours had been circulating. I think we need more of this. I think this could be done on the official website, ...[/quote]

My concern is that the club seems to be coming over as anti-bulletin board

While I rarely see eye to eye with you on things football no mad I have to agree with you on this one - I was starting to think I was alone in seeing more than a simple concern about the ludicrous and unwelcome personal rumours thing.  

The actions and words of the club do leave another interpretation beyond the basic thrust of personal attacks - gossip has and always will happen.   

As you say I think well run boards are a healthy breeding ground of discussion where I get a chance to talk about my team with people I would not otherwise meet.

I am not the devil incarnate because I use a message board and choose a moniker that I have grow fond of even though it is not my own name.

 

OTBC 

 

 

 

  

 

[ronbol ronbol 0]

Personally I don''t care about hiding behind a nickname. I''ll be happy to sign each post by my proper name if thats the view that everybody wants to go by. Only the people who spread these rumours would be against it.

Using proper names would stamp this thing out all together.

[No Mad 0]

Gazza - more important topics than football? Surely not!

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

1) message boards are not the sole source of rumours . i have heard many rumours concerning Eddy, Shackell, Leon, Green, Ashton etc outside of these message boards. they vary from the plausible to the outrageous. I''ve had fellow supporters who i don''t know from Adam (not Drury) willing to spout unsolicited stories at carrow rd and on away trips.

2) Do you squash or quash a rumour?

3) My real name is FilletTheFishWife.

4) you can''t stop rumours. the best solution is merely not to pass them on (inside or outside message boards).

Good luck to Leon. Hope to see him back in the team soon.

 

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

I for one thought he came across very well, and actually it was a breath of fresh air to read his and also Leons comments...lets hope the 12 year olds on WOTB take note, although I doubt it

 

[gazzathegreat 0]

[quote]Gazza - more important topics than football? Surely not![/quote]

Of course there are No Mad, it''s just that it seems football is very important, though, sadly what we are watching at present isn''t very good football, so I suppose I should therefore conclude it''s not v important 

[No Mad 0]

I would be against rules which said we had to use our real names and I have not knowingly circulated a malicious rumour or had a post refused. The moderators know who I am if I did do something like that - so why force us to drop nicknames?

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

I think thats right nicknames are fine but the message board itself does need to moderate within certain boundaries and I believe record peoples real names (registration) to stop libellous or openly bigoted comments being made

 

 

[Rasputin was a C... 0]

I don''t have a problem with having to use my real name on message boards. However nicknames I find are a better way of identifying who people are as you remember names like Rasputin was a c... etc On the subject of rumours being spread on message boards I think the club are going over the top on the condemnation of boards like this. I say this because most of the rumours I''ve heard like many of you have been from talking to people down the pub or at the ground etc. I find most message boards are well moderated and rumours that do get through are removed fairly quickly. It does annoy me that the club are attacking something that isn''t neccessarily a major problem in comparison to lets say... results on the pitch etc.

[We need a Manager 0]

Yes so far this week we have had Worthington ,Munby, Doncaster and now Mckenzie all having their say on the  subject of rumours on internet message boards , anything to try to divert attention away from a blatantly underperforming manager and football team. Does anybody really think they would be giving this a second thought if we were flying high at the top of the table ? no of course they would not, these childish rumours have been going around for weeks now, its just this week it was handy to have something else to  blame for poor performaces.

[snowman 0]

12 Year olds on WOTB?

 

I''m a regular contributor on WOTB and i''m 47!

As for "hiding behind nicknames".

Lots of the posters on WOTB have their photos on display on the MSN site which is open to anyone who cares to register. So it''s hardly anonymous.

 

I have read comments on here about "Armchair Supporters" who post on WOTB on match days.

I would love to attend every game but being exiled 200 miles away makes it a bit difficult.

I''m sure lots of other posters on WOTB are in the same boat.

 

I''m gald the club are montoring websites.

At least they can see how the fans feel.

I was at Watford, Luton & QPR and the fact that we continue to sell out Home & Away shows how loyal the fans are.     

 

Come on Norwich let''s have a bit more transparency and perhaps you won''t have so much critisism and rumour.

 

OTBC1

 

Jack.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Any views on this? Personally, I appreciated the clear statement on three issues where rumours had been circulating. I think we need more of this. I think this could be done on the official website, ...[/quote]

Since I joined these boards many posters have sent me private messages and I them.

On all these occasions, REAL names were used, I know them, they know me.

So Mr Doncaster, if anyone on these boards post as you say ''nasty and unfounded rumours'' hiding behind a made up name, either the Pink Un or us fellow posters know their true identity.

No, you and the club are desperate to detract from our dismal season by starting a witch hunt against message board users, 3 times now the club has done this in 3 days.

Its a pity the same effort wasn''t put into winning bloody games!.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote]I think thats right nicknames are fine but the message board itself does need to moderate within certain boundaries and I believe record peoples real names (registration) to stop libellous or openly b...[/quote]

I think that are correct in that all forums need to be moderated and the club should look to take action against sites that permit these posts.

I really don''t think however that holding peoples real names is going to help pursue individuals.  It''s not as if the Pink ''Un requests copies of three different types of ID to verify you are the person you say you are.  For example I have used my real name in my registration but how would Archant know I haven''t?

Like I said in another post, the club needs to make it clear that they will take legal action against the owner/s of a website that allows such posts on their forums.  They need to make it known they will look to get the site closed down and actually sue for damages.

[No Mad 0]

[quote]I think that are correct in that all forums need to be moderated and the club should look to take action against sites that permit these posts. I really don''t think however that holding peoples real ...[/quote]

Saint - I think you make interesting points but I am not sure what you say is feasible. Most bulletin boards contain legal disclaimers which basically put all legal responsibility on the poster - or they moderate heavily (as on this site). I am not sure there have been many cases in the UK but in the US (where there have been lots) it is pretty clear that there can be no legal case against the bulletin board itself if they did not originate the content. Closing down a site for simply allowing particular content to be posted is likely to be impractical. Even if it was done, they could just re-open under a slightly different name - or hosted in a different country.

For more details on this see http://www.gigalaw.com/articles/2001-all/hollander-2001-03-all.html

The bulletin board could potentially be legally liable if it is asked by a lawyer to remove content and does not or allows such content to continue to be posted but it is a bit unclear.

Where legal action does seem to have been taken against bulletin boards is requiring them to reveal identities of posters. My feeling is that most posters on NCFC-related bulletin boards would be fairly easy to trace as I am not sure many of us/them are professional hackers?!?! And presumably the bulletin boards would cooperate. The registration procedure could be one area that is tightened up on some boards perhaps?

Personally, I think a bigger problem may be identifying where the rumour started.

I think what posters have to be aware is that making defamatory remarks on a bulletin board, particularly if done persistently, could result in legal or other action against the individual involved. If they think they are anonymous because of using a nickname they might get a rude awakening some day! While it might be difficult or undesirable for the club or player involved to take legal action - banning the person from Carrow Road would be relatively easy IMO.

I think it would be better if the club took specific action of this nature against the individuals involved rather than labeling all of us who use message boards in this way. To me, this is like seeing all football fans as hooligans.

Incidentally, do the moderators have any guidance on these issues? Presumably, it is something Archant has looked into?

 

[Web Team - Celia Sutton 0]

Archant is currently investigating the whole issue of message boards and moderation in the light of the 1996 Defamation Act and the very few number of legal cases available.

Because case law is so limited it''s a rather grey area, but a policy is being drafted which should be implemented by early next year.

The article you refer to seems to be looking at American law, and I suspect it is most likely that our sites would be dealt with in this country, but the whole issue is extremely interesting (and a little unnerving)...

Celia

 

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote]Saint - I think you make interesting points but I am not sure what you say is feasible. Most bulletin boards contain legal disclaimers which basically put all legal responsibility on the poster - or t...[/quote]

Great post No Mad.  Posts like that remind why I love this board so much, thank you for offering me a different viewpoint.

I think it''s unclear as to what can be done but as far as I am concerned if the club are as upset as they say then they should look into what they can do, rather than just whining about it when they should be talking football.

[No Mad 0]

Celia - My apologies. I thought I had been clear I was referring to the US on this as they seem to have had more experience than us. From my limited research it seems that the courts here are considered more claimant friendly than other jurisdictions which has resulted in some international cases being brought here because there were some UK-based users of the website, I believe.

I agree that if there were a case it would probably be brought in the UK but because the Internet is a global medium, I imagine a case could be brought anywhere.

It seems to me that the primary responsibility lies with the individuals spreading the rumours not the website. I think the club should pursue them and ban them from the ground!

On the other hand, I think the club should not imply that anyone who uses a bulletin board under a nickname is somehow involved. In particular, I agree with Yankee that Nigel should be extremely wary of making any criticisms of fans given the position we are currently in. In addition, the club needs to be much more proactive in sharing information with us. The absence of clear information, e.g. regular updates on players'' injuries is IMO one of the reasons why rumours start.

[Fat Barman 0]

I agree with a lot of your points, No Mad, but take issue with this bit - "On the other hand, I think the club should not imply that anyone who uses a bulletin board under a nickname is somehow involved. In particular, I agree with Yankee that Nigel should be extremely wary of making any criticisms of fans given the position we are currently in."

I know the club have been a little ambiguous in their comments, but I feel Nigel was quite precise at the AGM when, in response to a direct question, he attacked the minority responsible for spreading malicious rumours about some players personal lives. He is often criticised for being bland and trotting out stock responses, here you had the genuinely angry response of a manager whose players are being affected by nasty little gossips and he gets slammed for it.

At NO point did Worthy attack message boards in general, OR the principle of people using nicknames on them. He merely pointed out that the rumour-mongers took advantage of the traditional cloak of anonymity, which is usually no more than a fun way of creating your own board persona.

IMO the majority of posters have no need to feel attacked, or insulted by Worthy''s comments and some who have taken offence are merely using a convenient stick with which to beat their favourite target!

[0ridgemanddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

I totally agree with Premier 1. The only reason there is any histeria about these rumours is the totally incompetent performances on the field of football. It does much to detract from the fact that we were favourites to bounce straight back up but now look better placed to achieve totally the opposite. Poor team selection, poor tactics and poor substitutions accompanied by negative thinking from those running the club has fuelled any rumours.

 I''ve not personally heard any of these rumours and if I had it would not affect my judgement (providing it didn''t affect me) I attend FCR to watch NCFC win every game the fact that they don''t is somewhat upsetting.

If we were 20 points clear at the top of the division there would be no rumours just shear enjoyment. 

[No Mad 0]

Barman - If you were at the AGM you have an advantage over me in that I wasn''t. The only information I have is of the report on this site, but in that he was critical twice of people who don''t use their name on message boards. IMO he also gives the impression of being quite anti-message boards.

At no point does he recognise that the vast majority of people who use message boards under nicknames are passionate Norwich City fans who have had nothing to do with the rumours he is concerned about. This is in marked contrast to most comments on football hooligans, for example, which are usually at pains to point out they are not representative of all football fans

I understand completely the way you have interpreted it but unfortunately the part about nicknames just being fun for most people are, I think, your words not his.

I certainly felt attacked by his comments as I did when he commented on the fans a few weeks ago for which he later apologised. Yes, I may well be being over-sensitive but given how the season has gone, I guess I am not the only one feeling like this. Given the problems we are facing, it would in my opinion be better if he did not even appear to attack the fans - and if these things need to be said, they are said by someone else.

I am certainly not a strong anti-Worthington campaigner. I would say I waver between the Worthingon in and out camps depending largely on our results! At the moment, I am happy to trust the board but I would like better flow of information and not to feel attacked for what I think is a harmless (albeit sad) pastime.

On another point he makes, that no action can be taken because people have not used their real names, he is quite wrong. There are many examples of people being identified and prosecuted under similar circumstances. I think the club would have been far better taking action against the responsible minority rather than the manager. I appreciate they might not wanted to have dragged the matter through the courts but they could have taken other action, such as banning those responsible from the ground.

I welcome the clarification over the rumours and would welcome action against those responsible for them but I would prefer it to be done in a way which does not make me feel attacked

[YankeeCanary 0]

Fat Barman, when I made my point that Nigel should refrain from criticism of the fans it was not because I was taking offense at his comments. It''s just common sense. If he wants to get the fans on his side while the club his struggling he needs to stick to his task of getting better performances and results, not lose favour with any of the fans who perceive him as diverting attention from his responsibilities. As I stated, there are others in the organisation who can make their feelings known on such matters. Leave it to them. To use an analogy, if a business decides that''s it''s necessary to implement a steering committee to recommend where increased efficiency can take place, it would be unwise to choose a committee leader who goes out to take smoke breaks a dozen times a day, even though he may be a bright individual. There would be an unnecessary credibility problem which detracts from the task at hand.