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The Never-President Trump

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On 04/10/2021 at 08:55, horsefly said:

The idiot is too thick to see that all one needs to do is substitute "Islam" for "Christianity" in that speech and you have almost word for word identity with speeches given by Bin Laden and various other Islamic fundamentalists.

I'm not sure that many Christians have taken backpacks full of explosives into concert halls full of little girls enjoying a pop event. Or hijack airplanes to fly them into office towers.

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Or entered a synagogue and shot most of the worshippers eh? Or entered a black church and did the same? Or blew up a Federal building full of innocents? There is no exclusivity on hate, 

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6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I'm not sure that many Christians have taken backpacks full of explosives into concert halls full of little girls enjoying a pop event. Or hijack airplanes to fly them into office towers.

No, indeed! They tend to prefer to take their bombs and bullets into abortion clinics instead.

Edited by horsefly

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2 hours ago, horsefly said:

No, indeed! They tend to prefer to take their bombs and bullets into abortion clinics instead.

And they've attempted genocide against Jewish people on many occasions though given RTB’s world view I don’t suppose that really counts.

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13 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

And they've attempted genocide against Jewish people on many occasions though given RTB’s world view I don’t suppose that really counts.

 

And let's not forget the ten of thousands of cases of child abuse endemic in Christian organisations (wasn't it over 3000 committed by Catholic clergy identified by the French police in a report last week?) . But then we certainly know RTB wont give a damn about that given his explicitly expressed contempt for the victims of the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.

Edited by horsefly

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10 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I'm not sure that many Christians have taken backpacks full of explosives into concert halls full of little girls enjoying a pop event. Or hijack airplanes to fly them into office towers.

But they did take slaves, slaughter Muslims during the Crusades and burn people at the stake.

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1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

And they've attempted genocide against Jewish people on many occasions though given RTB’s world view I don’t suppose that really counts.

 

If a Labour government did it he would be deeply concerned. 😀

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22 hours ago, Surfer said:

Or entered a synagogue and shot most of the worshippers eh? Or entered a black church and did the same? Or blew up a Federal building full of innocents? There is no exclusivity on hate, 

No, no one did that in the name of Christianity. The other lot, however....

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16 hours ago, horsefly said:

No, indeed! They tend to prefer to take their bombs and bullets into abortion clinics instead.

Arbortion clinics, otherwise known as genocide clinics against primarily poor and black children

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12 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

But they did take slaves, slaughter Muslims during the Crusades and burn people at the stake.

It was Christians such as Wilberforce who brought about the end of slavery, arguing that it was against Christian principles. The Muslims slaughtered many Christians during the Crusades - it's called war

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4 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Arbortion clinics, otherwise known as genocide clinics against primarily poor and black children

I hear very wealthy people like trump and johnson use them a bit too.

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6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Why would Democrats defund the police when they can just tell prosecutors ignore the law instead?

 

Tip: If the source is Ted Cruz it's a load of b0ll0x.

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7 hours ago, Herman said:

I hear very wealthy people like trump and johnson use them a bit too.

I believe they have season tickets (works out cheaper than paying maintenance fees)

Edited by horsefly
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14 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Trump supporters. 😀

Posted pictures of empty shelves to shame Biden, the only problem was the prices on the shelves were in sterling.

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/failed-republican-house-candidate-kim-klacik-earns-ridicule-after-posting-false-empty-shelves-photo-to-slam-biden/

They really aren't the brightest are they? 😂😂😂

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On 13/10/2021 at 02:09, Rock The Boat said:

It was Christians such as Wilberforce who brought about the end of slavery, arguing that it was against Christian principles. The Muslims slaughtered many Christians during the Crusades - it's called war

All major religions of which Christianity is no exception has been used by bigots & racists alike over all the centuries to define and persecute crimes in the name of 'us' and them. Pot kettle black.

As to slaves and Christianity - was it Paul who advised  - 

In Col 4:1 Paul advises members of the church, who are slave masters, to "treat your slaves justly and fairly, realizing that you too have a Master in heaven.” Adding to Paul's advice to masters and slaves, he uses slavery as a metaphor.

I think that's about the only true reference in the bible to slavery. Seems it didn't otherwise register / matter.

A couple more - I don't claim to be a Christian just your average atheist who calls a spade a spade.

Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a bondservant or is free. Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him." - Ephesians 6:5-9

"Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality.

Masters, treat your bondservants justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven." - Colossians 3:22

 

Edited by Yellow Fever

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It was Christians such as Wilberforce who brought about the end of slavery, arguing that it was against Christian principles. The Muslims slaughtered many Christians during the Crusades - it's called war

Everyone was a "christian" then. If you weren't, they burnt you at the stake for heresy. So please don't tell me about religion and that "ours" is the best. Religion was used as a blunt instrument to get people to conform and hand over any money they had left to the Church.

And didn't we invade the Muslim countries during the Crusades? I don't recall hordes of them invading us. We sent ordinary people to recover Jerusalem, when the poor beggars had never been out of their own villages.

 

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12 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

All major religions of which Christianity is no exception has been used by bigots & racists alike over all the centuries to define and persecute crimes in the name of 'us' and them. Pot kettle black.

As to slaves and Christianity - was it Paul who advised  - 

In Col 4:1 Paul advises members of the church, who are slave masters, to "treat your slaves justly and fairly, realizing that you too have a Master in heaven.” Adding to Paul's advice to masters and slaves, he uses slavery as a metaphor.

I think that's about the only true reference in the bible to slavery. Seems it didn't otherwise register / matter.

A couple more - I don't claim to be a Christian just your average atheist who calls a spade a spade.

Bondservants, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a bondservant or is free. Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him." - Ephesians 6:5-9

"Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality.

Masters, treat your bondservants justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven." - Colossians 3:22

 

Very impressed in your quoting from Ephesians and Colossians as a self-declared atheist, but you need to include the context that these letters were written in the middle of the first century when slaves were an actual thing and the subject had to be dealt with. What is the relevance today? You are referring to an item of historical interest, that has already been rendered obsolete by more recent, enlightened Christians. It's like you claiming to never ride another train because you tried to go from Norwich to Edinburgh using the timetables from Bradshaw's 1844 Railway Companion.

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12 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

It was Christians such as Wilberforce who brought about the end of slavery, arguing that it was against Christian principles. The Muslims slaughtered many Christians during the Crusades - it's called war

Everyone was a "christian" then. If you weren't, they burnt you at the stake for heresy. So please don't tell me about religion and that "ours" is the best. Religion was used as a blunt instrument to get people to conform and hand over any money they had left to the Church.

And didn't we invade the Muslim countries during the Crusades? I don't recall hordes of them invading us. We sent ordinary people to recover Jerusalem, when the poor beggars had never been out of their own villages.

 

Certainly in this country we haven't burnt anyone at the stake for heresy for a few hundred years but I am aware of at least one religion that thrives today where heresy and other crimes against the religion will see you put to death. And you are correct that there used to be a lot of pressure on people to conform to a particular religion, though again, in our more enlightened times one is free to believe or not believe, except of course if one is unlucky enough to be born into that troublesome religion where leaving can be a death sentence. 

The Crusades was never an invasion of Muslim countries, it was a series of battles to reconquer land taken over by Muslim armies beginning with the First Crusade in 1095 to recapture Jerusalem. There was a three-hundred year Crusade to recapture Spanish lands, and various other crusades that were not even papal-sanctioned. You could argue that our wars against Al Qaeda and ISIS are continuations of the same campaigns, although the religious element has been dropped from our side.

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1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Very impressed in your quoting from Ephesians and Colossians as a self-declared atheist, but you need to include the context that these letters were written in the middle of the first century when slaves were an actual thing and the subject had to be dealt with. What is the relevance today? You are referring to an item of historical interest, that has already been rendered obsolete by more recent, enlightened Christians. It's like you claiming to never ride another train because you tried to go from Norwich to Edinburgh using the timetables from Bradshaw's 1844 Railway Companion.

You rather make my point. Christianity has little to nothing to say on the subject of slavery, actually less so than some of the religions you criticise. If there had been some statement, proverb or whatever at its roots stating thou shall not have slaves then you might claim it as a Christian example. There is not.

There are many enlightened men and women from all religions and none including Islam,  all of their time and all equally flawed as well. In more recent times Gandhi stands out.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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10 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Very impressed in your quoting from Ephesians and Colossians as a self-declared atheist, but you need to include the context that these letters were written in the middle of the first century when slaves were an actual thing and the subject had to be dealt with. What is the relevance today? You are referring to an item of historical interest, that has already been rendered obsolete by more recent, enlightened Christians. It's like you claiming to never ride another train because you tried to go from Norwich to Edinburgh using the timetables from Bradshaw's 1844 Railway Companion.

Oh dear! You don't even detect the irony of criticising YF for drawing on historical fact, questioning "What is the relevance today?", then going on yourself to reference the "more recent, enlightened Christians" such as Wilberforce (1759-1833). It's like you claiming  never to understand the non-Christian arguments for why slavery is evil because you used the Christian arguments of someone who died in in 1833.

Your knowledge of the abolitionist movement is clearly paltry; many people preceded Wilberforce in objecting to slavery, and many cited purely humanitarian arguments for its abolition. Nor indeed do you mention the abolitionists from all other faiths, including Muslims. You, of course, also fail to mention the many Christians who objected to the abolition of slavery on religious grounds.

Edited by horsefly

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9 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Certainly in this country we haven't burnt anyone at the stake for heresy for a few hundred years but I am aware of at least one religion that thrives today where heresy and other crimes against the religion will see you put to death. And you are correct that there used to be a lot of pressure on people to conform to a particular religion, though again, in our more enlightened times one is free to believe or not believe, except of course if one is unlucky enough to be born into that troublesome religion where leaving can be a death sentence. 

The Crusades was never an invasion of Muslim countries, it was a series of battles to reconquer land taken over by Muslim armies beginning with the First Crusade in 1095 to recapture Jerusalem. There was a three-hundred year Crusade to recapture Spanish lands, and various other crusades that were not even papal-sanctioned. You could argue that our wars against Al Qaeda and ISIS are continuations of the same campaigns, although the religious element has been dropped from our side.

Unsurprisingly full of your typical racist inspired nonsense. Which "thriving" religion could you be referring to, "...where heresy and other crimes against the religion will see you put to death."? It can't be Islam because, as even the thickest person would know, the overwhelming majority of countries in which Islam is a nationally recognised religion do not allow such punishment. And it surely can't be that you're naive enough to think the Koran is evidence for your claims, because as a devout Christian because you will be well aware that Leviticus calls for the death penalty for sundry breaches of Christian law (although it did drop stoning for winking at a donkey on the sabbath)

Just what "troublesome religion where leaving can be a death sentence " are you refering to? I know Scientologists and Jehova Witnesses are somewhat famed for their harassment of heretics but I don't believe they go that far.

The problem is FUNDAMENTALISM in all its forms; Islamic, Christian, or political. 

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9 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The Crusades was never an invasion of Muslim countries, it was a series of battles to reconquer land taken over by Muslim armies beginning with the First Crusade in 1095 to recapture Jerusalem. There was a three-hundred year Crusade to recapture Spanish lands, and various other crusades that were not even papal-sanctioned. You could argue that our wars against Al Qaeda and ISIS are continuations of the same campaigns, although the religious element has been dropped from our side.

To be pedantic this is hogwash. The Crusades were Western European and Roman Catholic. Jerusalem had never been theirs and they had largely never been there, while by 1095 Jerusalem had Muslim leadership for several centuries. They also spent much of their time fighting Christians who had other belief systems including several horrific massacres such as the sack of Christian Constantinople in 1204 when they spent days killing Christians. You are confusing politics with religion in an attempt to avoid inconvienent facts that the roots of much of this rests with colonialist history. The US spent a decade funding Al Qaeda as did their Saudi allies. After 9/11 Bush called for a crusade, so this is not one way. You analysis is not only incorrect but based on racism.

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12 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Certainly in this country we haven't burnt anyone at the stake for heresy for a few hundred years but I am aware of at least one religion that thrives today where heresy and other crimes against the religion will see you put to death. And you are correct that there used to be a lot of pressure on people to conform to a particular religion, though again, in our more enlightened times one is free to believe or not believe, except of course if one is unlucky enough to be born into that troublesome religion where leaving can be a death sentence. 

The Crusades was never an invasion of Muslim countries, it was a series of battles to reconquer land taken over by Muslim armies beginning with the First Crusade in 1095 to recapture Jerusalem. There was a three-hundred year Crusade to recapture Spanish lands, and various other crusades that were not even papal-sanctioned. You could argue that our wars against Al Qaeda and ISIS are continuations of the same campaigns, although the religious element has been dropped from our side.

How could we recapture an area that wasn't ours? Are you saying the Muslims had no right to Jerusalem whereas anyone from Europe did? Are we now basing areas on religion and not race?

Your defense of Christianity against Islam is bizarre. Yes Sharia law does seem quite barbaric as an instrument of the state. Yet so many people, maybe you included, demand that crimes in this country are not punished severely enough. So at what level do you consider us civilised and them barbaric?

I must admit my opinion of sentencing has changed since my youth when I believed it wasn't just punishment but education that was needed. But now I believe there must be some form of punitive action to try and dissuade anyone from a life of crime.

But even now the Christian Church dictates how people should live their lives yet I was taught it was the Ten Commandments that did that. So all religion is a hypocritical establishment still aimed at protecting those with a vested interest.

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Ah the Ten Commandments ...a key tenant of Judeo/Christian religions ... and Muslim religion. 

  • "And We ordained laws for him in the tablets in all matters, both commanding and explaining all things, (and said): 'Take and hold these with firmness and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts'..." (Quran 7:142–5)

Being pretty smart in these matters, it does not actually list any commandments out, but rather sticks to general principles. 

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Meanwhile, someone has something to hide... but you can't legally hide seditious behavior.

His usual pattern, sure to create delays, and never allow through because legal discovery would actually uncover exactly what he wants to hide. 

Something to hide ... .jpg

Discovery.jpg

Edited by Surfer

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