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Just now, Surfer said:

I think that anyone who starts out their argument with those words will have forfeit any claim to objectivity on this subject. 

Except you chopped in half my quote. Which not unsurprising as that's what you lefties always do. I go on to say that since all races are not equally successful and some are more successful than others then they can't be said to be equal. That's objective.

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Meanwhile.... leaving the RWNJ media bubble to re-enter the real world. 

 

Reality.jpg

Edited by Surfer
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1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

Except you chopped in half my quote. Which not unsurprising as that's what you lefties always do. I go on to say that since all races are not equally successful and some are more successful than others then they can't be said to be equal. That's objective.

O.K then, do you really mean what you wrote above? That because one group of people are not as successful as another group of people, they are not equal. Not equal in the eye of whom, God, society, the law, their bank manager? Now replace the words "group of people" with "race"? Is that really what you mean to say? If not, what is it that you did mean to say? 

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Just now, Surfer said:

O.K then, do you really mean what you wrote above? That because one group of people are not as successful as another group of people, they are not equal. Not equal in the eye of whom, God, society, the law, their bank manager? Now replace the words "group of people" with "race"? Is that really what you mean to say? If not, what is it that you did mean to say? 

Not equal in the eyes of the educational establishment for starters.

60% US Asians have at least a Batchelors degree and the highest number of Professional and Doctoral degrees. Compared with 16% US Hispanics with a degree. Obviously not equal. That's just one factor out of multitudes.

brexit education.JPG

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"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal .... " 

Pointing out differences between educational or economic attainment between different sections within society is fair enough, but that has nothing to do with race per se. Unless you use race as a proxy by those in power to control the amount of resources and opportunities that members of that particular race enjoy v members of another race. Slavery being a prime example in the American experience where one race had "significantly less opportunity" to advance than another.  

 

This "equality of opportunity" v "equality of outcome" is a reasonable argument to have regarding economic and policy priorities of the political parties. Whereas "this race is more successful than that race" is only destructive. 

 

 

Edited by Surfer

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5 minutes ago, Surfer said:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal .... " 

Pointing out differences between educational or economic attainment between different sections within society is far enough, but that has nothing to do with race per se. Unless you use race as a factor by those in power to control the amount of resources and opportunities that members of that particular race enjoy v members of another race. Slavery being a prime example in the American experience where one race had "significantly less opportunity" to advance than another.  

 

This "equality of opportunity" v "equality of outcome" is a reasonable argument to have regarding economic and policy priorities of the political parties. Whereas "this race is more successful than that race" is only destructive. 

 

 

So we can take it as a given from the part I've highlighted that you agree there is no such thing as white privilege, if the differences between the success of various races has nothing to do with race per se? In fact, because Asians are the most successful race in the US - as they are in UK - this is also another nail in the coffin of this absurdity of white privilege that the Democrats - and Labour - cling to. 

Education and Income are only two measures of inequality. I could have picked hundreds more: Life Expectancy, Divorce, Suicide, Murder rates, SIngle-parent households, Homlessness, Property Ownership, all to prove that races are not equal. And you can do the same comparisons whether in multicultural countries like the US, UK  or if you compare countries that have fairly homogenous races.

Pointing out that one race is more successful than another race is not destructive either. You can't develop a policies of equal opportunity if you do not admit that actually there is no equality. Far from being a RWNJ media boggle, whatever that is, in the real world you have to recognise facts such as we are not all equal if you want to start fixing real world problems. Which is why sensible people choose Republicans/Free Market Libertarians over Democrats/Labour.

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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/trump-news-live-president-being-investigated-over-alleged-interference-in-cdc-and-fda-coronavirus-work/ar-BB1aai7F?ocid=msedgntp

"Donald Trump and his administration is under investigation by the Government Accountability Office, a watchdog agency, for allegedly politically interfering with the CDC and FDA amid the coronavirus pandemic. The office will look into if the administration “has violated the agencies’ scientific integrity and communication policies.This comes as the rift between the president and Dr Fauci has widened after Mr Trump called the infectious disease expert a “disaster” and an “idiot” on Monday while on a phone call with his campaign staff. The two men have often differed on how the coronavirus pandemic should be addressed by the government."

He lurches from one catastrophe to another. The chickens are coming home to roost and they won't be in the form of a bucket full of his beloved McNuggets.

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2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Let's face it. The noose is tightening around Biden's neck. Hunter Biden is his father's Achilles heel. It's not just Biden's emails but Hunter Biden's lawyer sent an email to the computer repair shop asking for the computer to be returned to them. So what else was on the hard drive? Well the FBI department allegedly in possession of the computer normally investigates child pornography cases so this story is about to go off on another ugly direction, not just corruption. Joe Biden is finished.

Quite the opposite, the story is losing credibility by the minute. Even Fox News turned it down:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/trump-news-live-president-being-investigated-over-alleged-interference-in-cdc-and-fda-coronavirus-work/ar-BB1aai7F?ocid=msedgntp

"In other news, Fox News turned down the Rudy Giuliani scoop about Hunter Biden and an unclaimed laptop due to credibility concerns, according to Mediate. The news organisation expressed concern about sourcing and independently verifying the story, but opinions news hosts on Fox News have still covered the scoop at length on their respective shows."
 

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Edited by horsefly
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1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

So we can take it as a given from the part I've highlighted that you agree there is no such thing as white privilege, if the differences between the success of various races has nothing to do with race per se?

Um no, go back and read what I wrote. It has everything to do with inequality of opportunity and not the race of the person.

 

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Too late.... you should have convicted him in February when you had the chance. 

 

 

Too late.jpg

Edited by Surfer
Deleted selective quotation

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I find the Hunter Biden story if you can even call it that (a very dubious looking, ever more fictitious smear story) simply a despicable unethical in the gutter tactic by desperate supporters of the seediest President of the USA one can imagine. 

I really do hope America can flush these turds away and start afresh with Biden.

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" The worst of the virus is behind us "  - another reason he's losing so badly. Pensioners would like to live a little longer.

Fox and Trump.jpg

Edited by Surfer

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5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

......- this is also another nail in the coffin of this absurdity of white privilege that the Democrats - and Labour - cling to.   Which is why sensible people choose Republicans/Free Market Libertarians over Democrats/Labour.

Have a read RTB - white privilege most certainly exists, but what is even more powerful as a political tool is exploiting white grievance. When whites are exposed to the same unequal opportunities that blacks have experienced, it's easy to focus that anger onto the non-white population. That's Donald Trump in a nutshell, a "rich man" who would rather initiate cultural and race wars than actually help anyone. 

https://thebulwark.com/how-trump-sealed-the-gops-suicide/

And yeah, the majority of racists are supporters of Trump and the GOP Republican Party. If you live here in the US the evidence is right there in front of your eyes. 

 

And I think if you are honest you will see parallels between this story and the current Tory / Brexit fixation on the "EU enemies" in the UK

 

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Edited by Surfer
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Beyond reprehensible, verging on evil. Actively undermining the only actions that have worked to date to contain the Virus. Thankful to live in a State that gives a damn about its residents, but horrified to see the explosion of cases in those States that don't and yet another reason this President and Republican Party needs to be removed from power. 

 

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Has Trump's narcissism now reached such levels that he has become seriously mentally ill? Watch the swivel-eyed campaign rant where he claims he could bribe the chief of ExxonMobil into donating millions of dollars to his campaign in return for "a couple of permits" to drill.  It's quite astonishing in its madness. All this to "prove" that he could out-do Biden's vastly superior fund raising if he really wanted to. The man is becoming utterly unhinged.

https://www.thestreet.com/latest-news/trump-describes-soliciting-bribe-from-exxon-mobil

 

Unsurprisingly, ExxonMobil have issued a statement saying no such call actually happened:

https://www.axios.com/exxon-mobil-trump-phone-call-never-happened-bd9d8cde-e724-4095-8b2d-4965b4353757.html

It is beyond belief that any sane human being could think this man is fit to lead the USA.

 

 

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The Supreme Court's decision in the Pennsylvania voting case is good news in the short term but bad news in the longer term, once Barrett gets on board, because it shows how the four rightwingers already on the court are prepared to vote in a politically partisan manner.

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33 minutes ago, SHRIMPER said:

EkkaeDQXgAA6DGj.jpg

Now come on Shrimper, get off the fence and tell us what you really think!

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I would like to see him strapped in a wheelchair and I would feed him with a catapult.

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8 minutes ago, SHRIMPER said:

I would like to see him strapped in a wheelchair and I would feed him with a catapult.

I prefer the shotgun method (half shot, half sh*t)

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Exactly, hence why Republicans are shifting to the dual strategy of a) austerity - so they can win Congress in the next election by blaming economic downturn on the Democrats, and b) litigation - to nullify the votes expressed from being counted ..... both of which they have done before.

So the true measure of potential recovery from this chaos is if the Democrats also take back the Senate as well as Biden being elected. 

Edited by Surfer

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Here is the former Chairman of the Republican Party  - saying he will vote for Joe Biden.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/i-m-republican-voting-joe-biden-over-trump-because-i-ncna1243952?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Many of the grievances that Trump has exploited are legitimate and should be addressed — but responsibly, not demagogically. Much of middle America is, in fact, viewed by coastal elites with a mixture of condescension and contempt. Educational disparities do afflict rural and low-income communities. Economic mobility is impeded by a wide range of factors, especially race.

 

 

Rather than binding up the nation’s wounds, Trump exacerbates division. Rather than standing up to the world’s dictators, Trump cravenly seeks the favor of thugs. Rather than fostering free enterprise, Trump embraces economic principles not only outdated in Lincoln’s time, but made even worse today by a leader who lost close to a billion dollars in a single year running a casino. Rather than seeking to build on the legacy of the Republican Party’s founders, of which Trump is surely ignorant, Trump has posited a single purpose for the GOP — the celebration of him.

Consequently, America has watched as the Republican Party stopped pursuing its animating principles of freedom and opportunity. It has given up its voice on things that mattered and instead bent the arc of the party towards the baser motives of one man, who is neither a Republican nor a conservative.

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7 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Here is the former Chairman of the Republican Party  - saying he will vote for Joe Biden.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/i-m-republican-voting-joe-biden-over-trump-because-i-ncna1243952?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Many of the grievances that Trump has exploited are legitimate and should be addressed — but responsibly, not demagogically. Much of middle America is, in fact, viewed by coastal elites with a mixture of condescension and contempt. Educational disparities do afflict rural and low-income communities. Economic mobility is impeded by a wide range of factors, especially race.

 

 

Rather than binding up the nation’s wounds, Trump exacerbates division. Rather than standing up to the world’s dictators, Trump cravenly seeks the favor of thugs. Rather than fostering free enterprise, Trump embraces economic principles not only outdated in Lincoln’s time, but made even worse today by a leader who lost close to a billion dollars in a single year running a casino. Rather than seeking to build on the legacy of the Republican Party’s founders, of which Trump is surely ignorant, Trump has posited a single purpose for the GOP — the celebration of him.

Consequently, America has watched as the Republican Party stopped pursuing its animating principles of freedom and opportunity. It has given up its voice on things that mattered and instead bent the arc of the party towards the baser motives of one man, who is neither a Republican nor a conservative.

Excellent find Surfer. I've never supported the Republican Party but have always recognised that it did once contain many politicians genuinely motivated to do what they thought was in the interests of the country (McCain et al). It is much to the shame of the current group (with a very few exceptions) that they have facilitated Trump's wanton destruction of those core values, and turned the USA into a sesspit where division, hatred, and ignorance triumphs.  It is good to hear a former chairman of the RP put that destruction in such an irrefutably eloquent fashion.

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Whilst Trumpski is holding 2 to 3 rallies a day with tens of thousands of supporters in attendance, Sleepy is in hiding and Harris is acting like a schoolgirl in Orlando at a rally that barely anyone showed up for.

Talk about cringeworthy:

 

Seriously embarrassing. 

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7 minutes ago, Jools said:

Whilst Trumpski is holding 2 to 3 rallies a day with tens of thousands of supporters in attendance, Sleepy is in hiding and Harris is acting like a schoolgirl in Orlando at a rally that barely anyone showed up for.

Talk about cringeworthy:

 

Seriously embarrassing. 

If you think Trump's super-spreader tour is something to praise you really are a total tw*t.

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15 minutes ago, Jools said:

Talk about cringeworthy:

Seriously embarrassing. 

Totally.... holding a rally with your own rabid supporters (let alone helping them get infected with CoronaVirus as almost none of them wear masks or socially distance) adds nothing to your vote count.

Preparing for a debate that reaches 60 million + viewers does.

And meanwhile, Trump is being outspent 2:1 in local TV advertising, which frankly is the medium by which most people are exposed to politics in the USA. How is Biden able to do that you may ask - well because Trump in his wisdom burnt through 1 Billion $ - the kind of financial acumen that helped him drive casinos into bankruptcy. 

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-joe-biden-donald-trump-impeachments-8ac355b6ebd62b19d8a44fedcbf5b128 
 

 

 

Edited by Surfer
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On 01/10/2020 at 16:52, Jools said:

Serfdom, you, your Lefty cohorts and the MSM told us, and keep telling us, the Proud Boys were/are white Supremacist's... 

The Leader doesn't look very white to me --- Is it true they have Afro-American, Hispanic, white, Latino and Asian members who are simply patriotic? Yes, it is, which proves patriotism is not the same as supremacism.

No one will ever convince me that it's wrong to have national pride and the feeling of love, devotion and sense of attachment to a homeland and alliance with other citizens who share the same sentiment, be they Afro-American, Hispanic, white, Latino or Asian. 

Oh, look which group has been found to be involved in criminal interference in the election..... how very patriotic. 

 

Proud Boys 2.jpg

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