The Never-President Trump

[Barbe bleu 815]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

What you think about what you say is irrelevant to the question of whether what you say is stupid. Suggesting that all we have to do is ignore the 70 million Trump supporters and they will disappear as a political force is very stupid. 

And btw, concerning your bemusement about why some posters here should be so concerned about the result of the US election, maybe you might give some thought to the church bells that rang out in Berlin and Paris (and elsewhere) on hearing of Biden's victory. Seems you're on your own in thinking that who becomes leader of the free world is of no material interest to the rest of us.

You are just trolling  now.  You may not be Bill but you have certainly pocked up where he left off.

For the benefit of the others I do not think that Biden should ignore 70 million Republican voters. I made the the point that Trumpism is a reaction to a sizeable proportion of the population lashing out at a world that has left them behind and that he would do well to see what he can do to improve their lot. Bridge building not bridge burning is what is needed. As is toning down the rhetoric that seriously suggests that Trump is capable of orchestrating a coup!

For a minority of these voters having defeat rubbed in their faces will not calm them down anymore than leavers crowing over defeated remainers helped here. 

And I certainly feel that of anything nasty is to happen its not because Trump has ordered it, it is because someone goaded a defeated nutter. Yes, the nutter is responsible but that won't change what has happened.

Now do everyone a favour and stop being deliberately obtuse.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[BigFish 1,986]

2 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I made the the point that Trumpism is a reaction to a sizeable proportion of the population lashing out at a world that has left them behind and that he would do well to see what he can do to improve their lot.

Trumpism, like Brexit, is classic deflection by a monied elite that tells the unfortunate that their problems are someone else's fault. That someone else is usually weak, innocent and would be better off under the Democrats in the US or Labour in the UK.

[BigFish 1,986]

39 minutes ago, Herman said:

It's over Jools. You lost. 

Worth another quote, I am enjoying this is case you can't tell.

[Barbe bleu 815]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

Trumpism, like Brexit, is classic deflection by a monied elite that tells the unfortunate that their problems are someone else's fault. That someone else is usually weak, innocent and would be better off under the Democrats in the US or Labour in the UK.

Possibly.  Trump spoke to a marginalised group in a way no one else could or would.  In the UK starmer is trying to bridge this gap. It is for Biden to do that there now.

[Jools 584]

26 minutes ago, Herman said:

It's over Jools. You lost. 

What is it that I have lost, Herminge?

I'd prefer an à la carte Trumpski feast, but the prospect of a Table d'hôte, lame duck Biden would suffice 👌

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Jools, like his avatar, the eternal loser. Has to make up stories about Bowie while accusing others of fake news.

his ship came in as he got on a plane and he confessed to a murder onhis death bed and got better.

Rub his fcukin nose in it. 

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

26 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

You are just trolling  now.  You may not be Bill but you have certainly pocked up where he left off.

For the benefit of the others I do not think that Biden should ignore 70 million Republican voters. I made the the point that Trumpism is a reaction to a sizeable proportion of the population lashing out at a world that has left them behind and that he would do well to see what he can do to improve their lot. Bridge building not bridge burning is what is needed. As is toning down the rhetoric that seriously suggests that Trump is capable of orchestrating a coup!

For a minority of these voters having defeat rubbed in their faces will not calm them down anymore than leavers crowing over defeated remainers helped here. 

And I certainly feel that of anything nasty is to happen its not because Trump has ordered it, it is because someone goaded a defeated nutter. Yes, the nutter is responsible but that won't change what has happened.

Now do everyone a favour and stop being deliberately obtuse.

BB - Nobody on here  is suggesting there will be a Trump coup. It won't happen.

However, Trump's intransigence that he was cheated despite all the lack of hard evidence will give an excuse for others to take the law into their own hands.

In another rational country some of his and his deputies language might even be deemed to cross over into incitement.

Biden is doing everything right but Trump needs to cool it down - a few words that he will of course abide by the democratic vote after a few recounts if needed but not promote a ludicrous conspiracy theory that the whole American electoral system is rigged against him!

Edited November 9, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[BigFish 1,986]

3 minutes ago, Jools said:

What is it that I have lost, Herminge?

I'd prefer an à la carte Trumpski feast, but the prospect of a Table d'hôte, lame duck Biden would suffice 👌

Nothing lamer than one-term Trump sulking in the White House, $400 million in debt, heading for divorce and unable to work out what to do now.

Edited November 9, 2020 by BigFish

[Herman 9,717]

Armando will have to retire. You can't write this stuff without it looking ott.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8929777/Rudy-Giulianis-witness-claims-saw-voting-fraud-convicted-child-****-offender.html

https://www.politico.com/states/new-jersey/story/2020/11/09/man-featured-at-giuliani-press-conference-is-a-****-offender-1335241

 

Rudy Giuliani's witness who claims he saw voting fraud is a convicted child **** offender.

[The Raptor 1,199]

4 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Nothing lamer than one-term Trump sulking in the White House, $400 million in debt, heading for divorce and unable to work out what to do now.

Bet the poor **** wished he really did have covid now!

[Jools 584]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Jools, like his avatar, the eternal loser. Has to make up stories about Bowie while accusing others of fake news.

his ship came in as he got on a plane and he confessed to a murder onhis death bed and got better.

Rub his fcukin nose in it. 

I really don't understand why you Biden bunnies are getting so tetchy..

You're supposed to have won something for Christ's sake!

[BigFish 1,986]

Just now, Jools said:

I really don't understand why you Biden bunnies are getting so tetchy..

You're supposed to have won something for Christ's sake!

Biden won, the world is a much better place and we are very, very happy about it.

Thank you for your concern

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 minutes ago, Jools said:

I really don't understand why you Biden bunnies are getting so tetchy..

You're supposed to have won something for Christ's sake!

At last.

[Barbe bleu 815]

10 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

Biden is doing everything right but Trump needs to cool it down - a few words that he will of course abide by the democratic vote after a few recounts if needed but not promote a ludicrous conspiracy theory that the whole American electoral system is rigged against him!

Biden is playing it right.   I have said here a few times that a genial grey man is the best man for the job.

Trump won't concede and won't cool down, its simply not in his make up. And telling him he must won't work. Sure its the right thing for Trump to do but do you think that matters to him? 

The only way I can see that he will concede is if there was a way that he could present a concession as a victory. Its the psychology of the playground for sure but haven't his opponents being making the accusation that the playground is where he belongs for years now?

So there's a choice: ramp it up or ignore it.   Option one feeds the fire and won't achieve the aim. Option two will mean him ranting to an increasingly small group. Thems the choices, take your pick

 

[Jools 584]

Ey up duck, trouble at t’mill :   

https://gellerreport.com/2020/11/look-captured-in-real-time-moment-in-virginia-at-512-am-when-169000-votes-disappear-off-the-state-totals.html/

[Well b back 3,190]

7 minutes ago, Jools said:

Ey up duck, trouble at t’mill :   

https://gellerreport.com/2020/11/look-captured-in-real-time-moment-in-virginia-at-512-am-when-169000-votes-disappear-off-the-state-totals.html/

Why didn’t she report it as she saw it in real time ?

Just asking

[sonyc 5,492]

44 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

You are just trolling  now.  You may not be Bill but you have certainly pocked up where he left off.

For the benefit of the others I do not think that Biden should ignore 70 million Republican voters. I made the the point that Trumpism is a reaction to a sizeable proportion of the population lashing out at a world that has left them behind and that he would do well to see what he can do to improve their lot. Bridge building not bridge burning is what is needed. As is toning down the rhetoric that seriously suggests that Trump is capable of orchestrating a coup!

For a minority of these voters having defeat rubbed in their faces will not calm them down anymore than leavers crowing over defeated remainers helped here. 

And I certainly feel that of anything nasty is to happen its not because Trump has ordered it, it is because someone goaded a defeated nutter. Yes, the nutter is responsible but that won't change what has happened.

Now do everyone a favour and stop being deliberately obtuse.

Barbe B....I've copied an excellent article (imo) on the psychology of Trumpism. It's the identity politics part that is the most concerning. His lack of humility in defeat and inability to move on, be gracious etc etc is corrosive.

No-one on here changes anything with their talk....of course not. It's Trump's behaviour that is followed. It is a dangerous time.

It's no use telling people we should not be talking things up. Trump needs to show some kind of national and international leadership (highly unlikely) and responsibility to his nation. He needs to set an adult lead. The irony is right there.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-rsquo-s-appeal-what-psychology-tells-us/

[Jools 584]

21 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Why didn’t she report it as she saw it in real time ?

Just asking

I can't answer you that, but there is the following:

Nevada Clark County Registrar of Voters, Joe Gloria, said his office has received allegations of voter fraud but will not investigate them until “post-election.”  😮

 

 

Joe Gloria is a Democrat 🤫

Edited November 9, 2020 by Jools

[Surfer 1,547]

It really doesn't matter what Trump says or does, or for that matter that RTB and Jools think the election was stolen. The simple fact is Biden / Harris won the presidential election, fair and square with more than the required 270 EC votes and won the popular vote by a margin of over 5 million and counting. World leaders have accepted (welcomed) the result and are all moving on.

What does matter is the behavior of the Republic Party, and so far that is not good. I understand some may be jockeying for leadership of Trump's base after Trump is defeated, but the longer they entertain this "count every legal vote but not illegal ones" which is an obvious dog whistle for "count white votes and not black ones" the more damage they do to the country. It is unfortunate people like Lindsey Graham and Kevin McCarthy were re-elected last week too, so we are stuck with them, but they need to act like senior American politicians and not as pathetic sycophants to an obviously defeated President. 

As for Biden, yes he will reach out, but it will not be all one way; eliminating assault rifles and gerrymandering will be part of the package alongside rural infrastructure and police reforms. i.e. rural and Republican-leaning voters will get respect but urban and suburban Democratic-leaning black voters will too. If Republicans do not want to help the country now then political capital must be spent in splitting their party up, we don't need another Confederacy with the only goal of vetoing progress for the American people and the world. 

 

p.s. So here is another test for Republicans. Trump has just fired his Defense Secretary. Are we going to hear "the President must have the ability to hire his own Cabinet, and all members serve at his pleasure" - which to be fair is true, and I'm sure Biden will Remingtons them of that when they try and veto his Cabinet choices -  or are they finally going to reveal a backbone and say this obvious retribution is "inappropriate" 

And if tomorrow he fires the FBI Director ? 

And if on Friday he calls for the arrest of Joe Biden? 

 

Its just very sad so see what a great political party has degenerated into. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Surfer

[Barbe bleu 815]

28 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Barbe B....I've copied an excellent article (imo) on the psychology of Trumpism. It's the identity politics part that is the most concerning. His lack of humility in defeat and inability to move on, be gracious etc etc is corrosive.

No-one on here changes anything with their talk....of course not. It's Trump's behaviour that is followed. It is a dangerous time.

It's no use telling people we should not be talking things up. Trump needs to show some kind of national and international leadership (highly unlikely) and responsibility to his nation. He needs to set an adult lead. The irony is right there.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-rsquo-s-appeal-what-psychology-tells-us/

Interesting  read.   Confirms what we all kind of knew: that trump's core support were the marginalised for whom modern economics have not worked. It was to this group that Trump gave a vision (real,  imagined or faked) of a better America and the mechanism by which they could contribute to its Making.

Not so very different to brexit really . problem here is that rather than anyone trying to understand the disillusioned and disenfranchised they were at best, disregarded tand at worst actively mocked.  In retrospect not the best way of gaining their vites really.

My manifesto is for Biden to ignore Trump and thus push him down the news agenda whilst simultaneously reaching out to the marginalised groups with  words to the effect "i hear you and I want to help you. Its not us and the  and nor is it me against you,  its all of us together, building back better. You are part of this group too".

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[sonyc 5,492]

3 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Interesting  read.   Confirms what we all kind of knew: that trump's core support were the marginalised for whom modern economics have not worked. It was to this group that Trump gave a vision of a better America and the mechanism by which they could contribute to its Making.

Not so very different to brexit really 

My manifesto is for Biden to ignore Trump and thus push him down the news agenda whilst simultaneously reaching out to the marginalised groups with  words to the effect "i hear you and I want to help you. Its not us and the  and nor is it me against you,  its all of us together, building back better. You are part of this group too".

 

Well I believe that is what Biden IS doing, simply ignoring the noise and preparing. A Covid taskforce is already set up. Aimed to be led by scientists and a serious attempt at management.

Don't underestimate the damage Trump can still do would be my worry until January.

[Surfer 1,547]

3 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Interesting  read.   Confirms what we all kind of knew: that trump's core support were the marginalised for whom modern economics have not worked. It was to this group that Trump gave a vision of a better America and the mechanism by which they could contribute to its Making.

Not so very different to brexit really 

My manifesto is for Biden to ignore Trump and thus push him down the news agenda whilst simultaneously reaching out to the marginalised groups with  words to the effect "i hear you and I want to help you. Its not us and the  and nor is it me against you,  its all of us together, building back better. You are part of this group too".

 

This is spot on Barbe bleu. The great irony is that the political party that did the most to create the conditions that marginalized those voters were the Republican Party - it was not the Democratic Party that wrote the tax laws that encouraged factories to move outside the USA. However just as the Tories have a much better PR operation than Labour, they have been able to exploit (not exclusively white) grievance for decades - on issues like abortion, guns, gay rights and immigration - and then Trump came along and took the grievance politics to the next level. 

His "promises" turned out to be a chimera, just like Brexit, but it was an effective sales pitch. 

So the fact that Biden is obviously religious is a plus, as is the fact that Harris was a prosecutor, it gives them a head start in re-enforcing the "values" these voters clearly care about. What they need though is goodwill and a neutral media landscape, and Republicans and Murdoch will obviously not give them that, unless Biden has something in his pocket bringing them to heel. 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,181]

48 minutes ago, Jools said:

Ey up duck, trouble at t’mill :   

https://gellerreport.com/2020/11/look-captured-in-real-time-moment-in-virginia-at-512-am-when-169000-votes-disappear-off-the-state-totals.html/

Pamela  Geller not exactly an independent observer 

And I expect most of us can produce a  screenshot of some numbers on an excel spreadsheet 

Have you anything that proves these numbers are genuine?

[sonyc 5,492]

2 minutes ago, Surfer said:

What they need though is goodwill and a neutral media landscape, and Republicans and Murdoch will obviously not give them that, unless Biden has something in his pocket bringing them to heel. 

I thought the Murdoch press was turning even if only a little Surfer? 

Grey he may be but Biden looks and sounds like the kind of man that can lead a healing process. A sympathetic press will help greatly.

[horsefly 4,287]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

You are just trolling  now.  You may not be Bill but you have certainly pocked up where he left off.

For the benefit of the others I do not think that Biden should ignore 70 million Republican voters. I made the the point that Trumpism is a reaction to a sizeable proportion of the population lashing out at a world that has left them behind and that he would do well to see what he can do to improve their lot. Bridge building not bridge burning is what is needed. As is toning down the rhetoric that seriously suggests that Trump is capable of orchestrating a coup!

For a minority of these voters having defeat rubbed in their faces will not calm them down anymore than leavers crowing over defeated remainers helped here. 

And I certainly feel that of anything nasty is to happen its not because Trump has ordered it, it is because someone goaded a defeated nutter. Yes, the nutter is responsible but that won't change what has happened.

Now do everyone a favour and stop being deliberately obtuse.

Just a few of your wrong-headed and patronising comments:

"Trump is Yesterday's man, an irrelevance, it doesn't matter what he does."

"Trump doesn't matter.  Its a couple of lame duck months and he is out. Retired from politics and on the golf course."

"I asked on here a few days ago why I in the UK should care who won.  Very few answers were given, Purplecanary giving probably the only one that addressed the point directly - commitment to the Green Agenda.  To me that said a lot about the debate on here ans probably there."

 "Thjng is you actually agree with me but you want to get that last kick in on trump and dont want to be seen to agree with me.   Thats pride you are feeling.  Pride can do terrible things to a person, you shouldn't prod a proud person when they are down."

"I think I've made my point now.  I think everyone needs to draw a line under Trump and move on to a a more adult approach"

" In the absence of anything constructive the middle is forced to ignore actual policy and focus instead on which unpleasant extreme personality they dislike the least....And this we do see on the pink un."

The only obtuse person here is you.

[Surfer 1,547]

Just now, sonyc said:

I thought the Murdoch press was turning even if only a little Surfer? 

Grey he may be but Biden looks and sounds like the kind of man that can lead a healing process. A sympathetic press will help greatly.

Only a smidgen sonyc

Yes a sympathetic press would be a great help, I'd take a neutral one though.

Anyone who has visited America in the last decade, especially if you have driven across our great country would have been exposed to the pernicious influence of RWNJ media on TV and radio. In parts of the country that is all there seems to be. AM radio for example is all RWNJ talk shows and Evangelical grifters. It's very sad really. Only yesterday I was told in our local Vietnamese takeout that Biden is a communist and that young people want to overthrow the government 🤣 

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

Just for variation a comment received just now from one of my US colleagues.

"Separately, I think Mr Trump is incapable of admitting defeat (thereby making him a loser).  He’ll have to stick with the “they stole it” story (thereby making him a victim of unfair practices)."

[Surfer 1,547]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

Just for variation a comment received just now from one of my US colleagues.

"Separately, I think Mr Trump is incapable of admitting defeat (thereby making him a loser).  He’ll have to stick with the “they stole it” story (thereby making him a victim of unfair practices)."

That sounds about right Yellow Fever. 

Today's firing of the Defense Secretary being a variation of the "stabbed in the back" excuse the Germany army leadership and right wingers used at the end of WW1 - just in reverse this time.  

[sonyc 5,492]

2 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Only a smidgen sonyc

Yes a sympathetic press would be a great help, I'd take a neutral one though.

Anyone who has visited America in the last decade, especially if you have driven across our great country would have been exposed to the pernicious influence of RWNJ media on TV and radio. In parts of the country that is all there seems to be. AM radio for example is all RWNJ talk shows and Evangelical grifters. It's very sad really. Only yesterday I was told in our local Vietnamese takeout that Biden is a communist and that young people want to overthrow the government 🤣 

Good heavens. That is so polarised! And scary. It's about time people got access to better education about binary choices (good v bad etc etc)...thinking about everything being some kind of dyadic equation is so unhelpful.

I was pleased to hear that Pfizer fellow today talk about solidarity. In other words, cooperation (and interestingly that is such a major word used by EU officials ironically in policy formulation). Without solidarity we wouldn't have been able to announce the scientific breakthrough today.

We need more people of position and influence talking about bringing the world together. We have witnessed 4 years of a shocking pulling apart. An attack on the values you've talked about.

The young of tomorrow hold the keys. I'm trusting them.

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

3 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Anyone who has visited America in the last decade, especially if you have driven across our great country would have been exposed to the pernicious influence of RWNJ media on TV and radio. In parts of the country that is all there seems to be. AM radio for example is all RWNJ talk shows and Evangelical grifters. It's very sad really. Only yesterday I was told in our local Vietnamese takeout that Biden is a communist and that young people want to overthrow the government 🤣 

Haha Surfer. Thats almost the exactly the story I tell interested parties about driving across the states away from the large cities on the coasts. It's either bible studies or heavy rock. I have to oscillate between them every 30mins to keep sane. Love the grandeur of it though.