The Never-President Trump

[Indy 3,283]

I love the fact those bleating now because their bigot friend in the US didn’t win his election were the ones gloating that our bigot Farage won Brexit! Makes you understand that the US have more sensible people than we have here! Farage being in the Trump camp worked out well

Edited November 8, 2020 by Indy

[Herman 9,710]

A repeat for Fools.

 

[horsefly 4,275]

9 minutes ago, Jools said:

Your better half hasn't aged well -- Sleepy sniffin' her hair here:

 

😃

I think you'll find that's heroic Joe rescuing an in-mate from one of your factory farm care homes

[Herman 9,710]

 

[horsefly 4,275]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

 

It's probably Trump's only regret, that he didn't get the chance to turn the US into a dictatorship.

[Herman 9,710]

11 minutes ago, horsefly said:

It's probably Trump's only regret, that he didn't get the chance to turn the US into a dictatorship.

I think that would have been a high possibility if he had got another term.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's not me with the bloodied ar_se

Prove it. Remember you good ole boys in Deliverance.

By the way, I'm all fixed thank you. Thanks to the NHS, I have a clean bill of health.

I have never encountered two more complete morons than Jools and yourself. As I said earlier, you have no grace. No compassion. And nothing to contribute.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

PS RTB

I forgot to add

the NHS that you and Jools want to give away to your orange friend in the US. The mass killer who prefers golf to providing evidence. He leaves to the inbreds, like yourself.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

Out of interest- why, if the democratic party has such a sophisticated vote rigging system that they have successfully subverted this election, did they not bother rigging the senate?

And the other point is that it is the Republican party, and only the Republican party, that in this election and previously imposed deliberate obstacles to voting and restrictions that were aimed at reducing the black supposedly pro-Democratic vote in particular. A while ago Trump himself let the cat out of the bag, not that it wasn't obvious anyway, when he said that without these biased measures the Republicans would never win.

[horsefly 4,275]

Hey Keelan! glad to hear you got a clean bill of health.

[Surfer 1,547]

3 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

So you want to shutdown free speech. No surprise from a political party that cheats at everything it does. America is lost.

No. In the same way free speech does not allow you to falsely shout “fire” in a theatre without any consequences, we don’t have to provide the purveyors of hate with mass media platforms. 

Likewise for guns, citizens can bear arms as part of a regulated militia, it does not give you cart blanche to intimidate other citizens by parading around public spaces with an AR-15. 

Likewise for religious freedom, the government shall not induce citizens to follow any specific religion, but equally you are not allowed to impose your religious beliefs on other citizens. 

Most Americans like these compromises - I accept some Americans don’t, if so that’s just tough luck, put your big boy pants on, get on with your life, and leave the rest of us alone. 

America is just fine, thank you so much for your concern for our well being. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

In case you’ve not seen it, this is absolute gold!

 

[horsefly 4,275]

Poor old Donald! Will soon be wearing a suit the same colour as his face. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/trump-s-imminent-departure-from-the-white-house-makes-him-vulnerable-to-lawsuits-and-investigations/ar-BB1aO1kO?ocid=msedgntp

"In his testimony to Congress, following his investigation, Robert Mueller was asked by the Republican representative Ken Buck: “Could you charge the president with a crime after he left the office?” Mueller replied: “Yes.” Buck continued: “You believe that he committed – you could charge the president of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?” Again, the response was: “Yes.”

"Trump is the subject of 15 inquiries, criminal and civil, by nine federal, state and district agencies into his business and personal finances, including his tax affairs, his campaign, his inaugural committee, and charities associated with him!.

[SHRIMPER 328]

 

[king canary 7,577]

12 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

And why didn't they do it in 2016 also?

The obvious answer is they didn't rig anything.

Trump is wildly unpopular, never got above 50% approval rating in his Presidency and has overseen a terrible response to a global pandemic leading to thousands of American deaths. The fact some of his fans can't comprehend that him losing is entirely plausible without the need for mad conspiracy theories just shows how deep in the echo chamber they are buried. 

[king canary 7,577]

18 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

This matters even though Trump is on his way out, because it has shown that the supposed safety checks and balances in the US Constitution, written by reasonable men on the assumption  those who came after them would be reasonable and law-abiding, are totally inadequate in the face of a tinpot mobster.

Biden has already said he will form a commission to look at possible reform of the Supreme Court, but Trump has done the US one favour, by demonstrating that there needs to be a much broader examination of the whole constitutional system, which was devised in the 18^th century and is very badly showing its age.

Not least whether there should still be an electoral college (which was a compromise afterthought in the first place) and if so whether it should now more closely reflect the population realities of the 21^st century. Those who understand the complexities say it now means an electoral college vote from  Wyoming is worth four of those from California.

Another question is reform of the voting system, to get rid as much as possible of the absurd gerrymandering that goes on (by both parties although I think the Republicans overall win the prize) and the blatant voter-suppression by individual states where there is not even a pretence that this is anything but a Republican attempt to reduce the ability of black people to cast a ballot.

You're right the system is broken but I can't see anything changing in the near future, especially with a Republican controlled senate. The Electoral College is now a built in Republican bias and there is no incentive for the Senate or the Supreme Court to do anything about it.

18 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

For what it is worth, I think you cannot separate Trumpism from Trump and his particular personality and image. He is like a carnival barker or a charlatan revivalist preacher and only someone like that can inspire the blind devotion that he did, because the presentation is everything. The political message cannot have the required impact without the medium by which it is presented.

You cannot imagine Nikki Haley, for example, or Tom Cotton, performing in that way. The words might be the same and the political policies almost certainly would be the same, but without the gut impact Trump managed, frighteningly, to instill in many millions of people.

I think you have to to in some sense respect his ability to inspire so much devotion and energy amongst his supporters- it is just a shame how he choses to use it.

I don't think you can get that with just anyone but a Trump backed candidate could possibly do the same. 

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

Poor old Donald! Will soon be wearing a suit the same colour as his face. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/trump-s-imminent-departure-from-the-white-house-makes-him-vulnerable-to-lawsuits-and-investigations/ar-BB1aO1kO?ocid=msedgntp

"In his testimony to Congress, following his investigation, Robert Mueller was asked by the Republican representative Ken Buck: “Could you charge the president with a crime after he left the office?” Mueller replied: “Yes.” Buck continued: “You believe that he committed – you could charge the president of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?” Again, the response was: “Yes.”

"Trump is the subject of 15 inquiries, criminal and civil, by nine federal, state and district agencies into his business and personal finances, including his tax affairs, his campaign, his inaugural committee, and charities associated with him!.

 

They don't do chain gangs in the USA anymore.

 

Separately , I did wonder if Trump might like to personally help build his wall.

[Barbe bleu 812]

56 minutes ago, king canary said:

You're right the system is broken but I can't see anything changing in the near future, especially with a Republican controlled senate. The Electoral College is now a built in Republican bias and there is no incentive for the Senate or the Supreme Court to do anything about it.

As a neutral foreign observer i would say that the Supreme Court rightly has no roll in amending the constitution, but the States can if Congress is a non starter.  It would need 2/3 of States to agree to begin the process and the conversation. 

I can't see small states of either flavour buying into changes that will erode their say though.

[king canary 7,577]

7 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

As a neutral foreign observer i would say that the Supreme Court rightly has no roll in amending the constitution, but the States can if Congress is a non starter.  It would need 2/3 of States to agree to begin the process and the conversation. 

I can't see small states of either flavour buying into changes that will erode their say though.

My expectation is that any attempt to change something like the Electoral College would inevitably end up in the Supreme Court.

But yeah I agree- there just isn't the will to change it.

[Barbe bleu 812]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

My expectation is that any attempt to change something like the Electoral College would inevitably end up in the Supreme Court.

But yeah I agree- there just isn't the will to change it.

Well it certainly would here!  

As you say its an academic point only of there is no will to see change.

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

As to Trump conceding I do wonder if he's hoping beyond hope to hold Arizona.

When that tumbles (yes I know it's already been called but it's closer than originally thought) or is beyond any shred of doubt I think he'll have to accept it.

Ditto for the Georgia recount - and both 'Republican' states.

The question is then what damage will he do to American democracy by continuing  to refuse to accept the blindingly obvious or worse disparaging the whole electoral process. Tyranny lies this way.

 

[king canary 7,577]

27 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Well it certainly would here!  

As you say its an academic point only of there is no will to see change.

To clarify- I think there is a will amongst the American people- but not within Republican political institutions.

[king canary 7,577]

7 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

As to Trump conceding I do wonder if he's hoping beyond hope to hold Arizona.

When that tumbles (yes I know it's already been called but it's closer than originally thought) or is beyond any shred of doubt I think he'll have to accept it.

Ditto for the Georgia recount - and both 'Republican' states.

The question is then what damage will he do to American democracy by continuing  to refuse to accept the blindingly obvious or worse disparaging the whole electoral process. Tyranny lies this way.

 

Some of the reporting I've read suggests he kind of knows the jig is up- there is nothing actually to the whole voter fraud nonsense and it isn't really cutting through but he's just dragging it out. He's the worst loser possible basically.

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

Some of the reporting I've read suggests he kind of knows the jig is up- there is nothing actually to the whole voter fraud nonsense and it isn't really cutting through but he's just dragging it out. He's the worst loser possible basically.

The more of a fuss he kicks up,  the more of mess he makes the more certain I am that he will bury himself forever deeper in the US hall of infamy. And yes - such tantrums will inevitably bring into question modest changes to the constitution  - a rebalancing of electoral college votes (did I read that the Democrats had won the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 (now 8 or the last 9) presidential elections ?

Edited November 9, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[Barbe bleu 812]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

As to Trump conceding I do wonder if he's hoping beyond hope to hold Arizona.

When that tumbles (yes I know it's already been called but it's closer than originally thought) or is beyond any shred of doubt I think he'll have to accept it.

Ditto for the Georgia recount - and both 'Republican' states.

The question is then what damage will he do to American democracy by continuing  to refuse to accept the blindingly obvious or worse disparaging the whole electoral process. Tyranny lies this way.

 

He won't concede defeat.  But is there any reason to make him?  

I am 99.97% confident that Trump will not have the material support required to set up an alternative government.  It rises to 99.999% if people cut the hyperbole and just ignore him rather than contribute to a maelstrom.

Honestly if I wanted to forment civil war in Britain  (I don't) the biggest hurdle would be for me to convince enough people that it was even a  possibility.

[Barbe bleu 812]

8 minutes ago, king canary said:

To clarify- I think there is a will amongst the American people- but not within Republican political institutions.

I take your word on that.

I think my point was that the individual states can decide this issue without referral to Congress and  I would (in my uneducated opinion) be surprised if the smaller states, even solidly Democrat ones, would give up their privileges. 

Its a classic trade off between the protection of minorities and the proportional representation of the people.

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

He won't concede defeat.  But is there any reason to make him?  

I am 99.97% confident that Trump will not have the material support required to set up an alternative government.  It rises to 99.999% if people cut the hyperbole and just ignore him rather than contribute to a maelstrom.

Honestly if I wanted to forment civil war in Britain  (I don't) the biggest hurdle would be for me to convince enough people that it was even a  possibility.

He will be gone in January come what may. That is not in doubt. The discussion is about making his supporters accept the democratic decision and not continue to cry foul pretending they were illegally robbed forever.

I saw some idiot on the telly here last night comparing it wrongly to the Brexit referendum. Nobody challenged the actual electoral vote (yes as in any election there will be handful of irregularities) - it was accepted - many thought it may have been and still is the wrong decision but not 'illegal'.

[Barbe bleu 812]

8 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

He will be gone in January come what may. That is not in doubt. The discussion is about making his supporters accept the democratic decision and not continue to cry foul pretending they were illegally robbed forever.

I saw some idiot on the telly here last night comparing it wrongly to the Brexit referendum. Nobody challenged the actual electoral vote (yes as in any election there will be handful of irregularities) - it was accepted - many thought it may have been and still is the wrong decision but not 'illegal'.

Unless he wins in court he'll be gone and he'll leave with his conspiracy theories.  Let him have his wacky beliefs and he will be content and no harm to anyone.

The more people talk up b****cks the more power it gets . If you want his supporters to shut up about it and learn to accept the new reality the best thing to do is stop talking about it yourself.

Move the conversation onto understanding why there is division and what the marginalised and disenfranchised on both sides need and all this toss about civil war will evaporate 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[king canary 7,577]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

He will be gone in January come what may. That is not in doubt. The discussion is about making his supporters accept the democratic decision and not continue to cry foul pretending they were illegally robbed forever.

I saw some idiot on the telly here last night comparing it wrongly to the Brexit referendum. Nobody challenged the actual electoral vote (yes as in any election there will be handful of irregularities) - it was accepted - many thought it may have been and still is the wrong decision but not 'illegal'.

I've also seen quite a few people bringing up the Gore recount in 2020 but there isn't really any comparison in terms of the size of defeat.

[king canary 7,577]

3 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Unless he wins in court he'll be gone and he'll leave with his conspiracy theories.  Let him have his wacky beliefs and he will be content and no harm to anyone.

The more people talk up b****cks the more power ot gets .

 

The people who need to ignore him aren't generally left wing people on the pinkun forum.