TheGunnShow 5,933 Posted August 9, 2020 And all of that happens to a heck of an extent in our current model. Popular votes do indeed tend to have lower participation, but that's not always bad news in Switzerland simply as several referendums take place per year. So, if a referendum crops up on a topic where people are less interested, they are less likely to vote. I'm afraid your comment re. proposing amendments when attempting to counter my call re. 50,000 signatures within 90 days may cause a law to be cancelled in referendum is a little askew. This is set out in Article 141 of the Swiss Constitution, link provided (in German) below. I did get the number of days wrong, as it was 100 and not 90.https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19995395/index.html#a141https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/switzerland-direct-democracy-explained/ (an explanation in English) Now how many uninformed voters do you get in one-off referendums in countries that rarely hold them? I agree that low level of voter participation and understanding are major problems in the UK and US, certainly. The Swiss are pretty happy with their models though. Can't say that for the US or UK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bill said: Doesn't this proposed state 'handout' go against what the rednecks object to ? Not at all, red necks only object when state handouts go to the “wrong” people..... I’ve mentioned it before but if you want to understand why poor whites vote for rich guys (or fight for slave owners back in the day) watch Mississippi burning and the story Gene Hackman tells Daniel Defoe about his grandaddy poisoning his neighbor’s mule. Edited August 9, 2020 by Surfer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barbe bleu 816 Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bill said: One old duffer on her even thought the government made law.... not Parliament 🙄 You need to use a spellchecker. And Government Ministers do make law. Rightly or wrongly a lot of people object to the Covid Regulations because they bypass Parliament. Or i could use the past tense and say bypassed Edited August 9, 2020 by Barbe bleu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,182 Posted August 9, 2020 34 minutes ago, Bill said: The problem is the low level of voter participation, and even understanding Time to go compulsory voting? Currently I don't have a vote as it seems my local council didn't receive the re-registration forms I sent in (living abroad, I think I have to do this yearly), but my constituency is overwhelmingly conservative, so there is little incentive for me to register anyway. I shall send in more forms regardless in due course Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creative Midfielder 1,985 Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Bill said: No we haven't In fact the way many would like to see the UK move, is actually towards the US college system The main problem is (UK) not the system, but the involvement of voters, I would love to know where you've picked up that idea from because I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone in the UK suggest any such thing. Nor have I ever heard of even an opinion poll on the subject so I suspect that by 'many' you actually mean you and a couple of mates. @TheGunnShow is spot on, the problem is our system (and the US system but that isn't our problem, that's their problem and they're welcome to it). This isn't a new problem. its very a very long standing problem but it's come into the spotlight because of the very poor performance of our system and country through the crises of the last decade; the total failure of austerity economics, the shambles of Brexit and now the shockingly incompetent and deadly response to Covid 19 - it would be easy, and in many ways entirely reasonable to blame all these catstrophes on the Tory party but ultimately they are all the product of our dysfunctional 'system' - that is the real culprit. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted August 9, 2020 "In fact the way many would like to see the UK move, is actually towards the US college system try reading it again, or maybe would actually be a move towards the US college system as what folk think, PR, is actually a 'slate' system where others chose who your representatives are.... as with the US college system Sadly your conclusions then follow another similar path of misunderstanding, that being if the electoral system was changed all would be solved - the 2010 coalition which was 5 years of that austerity easily refutes that both your ideas and compulsory voting are a good part of the problem, rather than the solution getting voters to think is the problem, rather than getting them to vote or how to juggle those votes 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,326 Posted August 9, 2020 15 hours ago, Herman said: If you want to start a thread about China and its disgusting behaviour then go ahead. If you just want to distract attention away from your utter failure of a president we've already seen through it. Grandad. You lost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,326 Posted August 9, 2020 11 hours ago, Herman said: You have a sad outlook if upseting people on the internet is the only joy you get out of life. If you are getting upset, Herman, step away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,326 Posted August 9, 2020 7 hours ago, TheGunnShow said: They're enabled due to said atrocious system that is a century out of date. We've got the same fundamental problem in the UK. First-past-the-post voting is fit for one thing only, namely the scrapheap. Yawn. Losers gonna lose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted August 9, 2020 Top work there Rocky. Well done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,326 Posted August 9, 2020 6 hours ago, SHRIMPER said: Just watching Brian Stelter on CNN talking about the Alt rightwing talk radio shows. How are they allowed to get away with such garbage? Nobody is forcing you to listen are they? There's an off switch on your wireless or just spin the dial to a different station if you don't like it. It ain't that difficult. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,326 Posted August 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Bill said: No we haven't In fact the way many would like to see the UK move, is actually towards the US college system The main problem is (UK) not the system, but the involvement of voters, Who raised a peep when Tories cheered in Parliament because nurses wages were not to rise - or protested when the sun demanded striking junior doctors be jailed ? How man UK voters actually know (or care) how the 2nd chamber (Lords) worked. One old duffer on her even thought the government made law.... not Parliament 🙄 How many supported the governments attempt to block the lawful democratic process - which subsequently required the judiciary to uphold that sanctity Education of the voting system, not eradication. Yeah, the problem is too many people voted Conservative, the twats Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,326 Posted August 9, 2020 4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said: So Microsoft, Amazon, Paypal are not keeping and passing on your information? Naive, thick, dummy, pavlov's dog. Which one or all do you fit perfectly? Has 3G reached Cornwall yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,554 Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said: I would love to know where you've picked up that idea from because I can honestly say that I've never heard anyone in the UK suggest any such thing. Nor have I ever heard of even an opinion poll on the subject so I suspect that by 'many' you actually mean you and a couple of mates. @TheGunnShow Me neither, CM. I am not sure how the US electoral college system would work in the UK but I imagine that since two of the last five US presidential elections have seen a candidate lose the popular vote but become president through the electoral college there is more chance of the US dropping what looks from the outside like an anomaly than the UK taking it up. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,326 Posted August 9, 2020 7 hours ago, A Load of Squit said: Obama lives rent free in Trumps head. 😀 Nah, Obama lives in a $17m mansion in Martha's Vintage. He didn't have that much money when he became President, it's a heck of a lot of speech making to get $17m and more. And why would a clown who believes in global warming buy a beach side property? Clowns gotta clown, I guess Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said: Me neither, CM. I am not sure how the US electoral college system would work in the UK but I imagine that since two of the last five US presidential elections have seen a candidate lose the popular vote but become president through the electoral college there is more chance of the US dropping what looks from the outside like an anomaly than the UK taking it up. As it was never claimed. nor has there been any claim that the US college system would be adopted by the UK so if you could leave the 'making up of stuff' to RTBBhandcrank it would help us all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,717 Posted August 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said: Nah, Obama lives in a $17m mansion in Martha's Vintage. He didn't have that much money when he became President, it's a heck of a lot of speech making to get $17m and more. And why would a clown who believes in global warming buy a beach side property? Clowns gotta clown, I guess He bankrupted a casino to pay for it? No, someone else. He set up a fraudulent university to pay for it? No, someone else. He sells a lot of Chinese made toot to pay for it? No, someone else. He plunders his charity to pay for it? No, someone else. He plunders his election fund to pay for it? No, someone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SHRIMPER 328 Posted August 10, 2020 8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said: Nobody is forcing you to listen are they? There's an off switch on your wireless or just spin the dial to a different station if you don't like it. It ain't that difficult. You really are a thick cvnt RTB aint ya. I said I was watching Stelter and he played a couple of radio clips taken from your favorite Alt right radio stations no doubt. Having worked in the states and heard the garbage I would not give yank radio a second of my time. Get back under your rock slimeball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,135 Posted August 10, 2020 10 hours ago, Rock The Boat said: Nah, Obama lives in a $17m mansion in Martha's Vintage. He didn't have that much money when he became President, it's a heck of a lot of speech making to get $17m and more. And why would a clown who believes in global warming buy a beach side property? Clowns gotta clown, I guess Obama lives rent free inside RTBs head. 😁 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted August 10, 2020 RTB learnt a new phrase today, loser. Five letters and two syllables, he is improving. Up to now it has been Fraj and Rump. He cannot accept his darlings have fcuked up the US and UK and are left to diverting attention away from anything but them. Trading off pubs for Schools? What the hell is that? Trump embarrassment as US President confesses ‘dream’ of being on Mount Rushmore 😂 3G is good RTB, it slows you down and makes you think before you act. And don't come crying to us in Cornwall because you need lithium for your batteries. You ain't getting any. We are going to be selective like your mob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted August 10, 2020 "in 2018 that Mr Trump mentioned adding his face to the monument was his “dream”" and mine his orange face, and absurd bouffant would like perfect splattered all over the mountain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,749 Posted August 10, 2020 Too hot to work... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,423 Posted August 10, 2020 Did anyone see what Piers Morgan said today? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,182 Posted August 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, The Real Buh said: Did anyone see what Piers Morgan said today? No 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,423 Posted August 10, 2020 22 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said: No You aren’t going to believe what he’s said now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,182 Posted August 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said: You aren’t going to believe what he’s said now I rarely come across what he says or writes....and when I do I rarely believe it, so you are probably correct 🤗 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real Buh 3,423 Posted August 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said: I rarely come across what he says or writes....and when I do I rarely believe it, so you are probably correct 🤗 How can he keep getting away with saying these things? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,554 Posted August 10, 2020 20 hours ago, PurpleCanary said: Me neither, CM. I am not sure how the US electoral college system would work in the UK but I imagine that since two of the last five US presidential elections have seen a candidate lose the popular vote but become president through the electoral college there is more chance of the US dropping what looks from the outside like an anomaly than the UK taking it up. CM, in an idle moment I found that 10 other countries (including India and Pakistan but also Vanautu and the Vatican City!) have an electoral college but none of them seems to use it in the odd way the US does, so whoever it is who wants the UK to adopt such a system is likely to be disappointed. Actually I think that's rather a shame. I like the idea of Norfolk being a key swing county with the nation waiting with bated breath to see which way its decisive electoral college votes will go. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said: so whoever it is who wants the UK to adopt such a system is likely to be disappointed. still making up stuff you are as bad as handcrankRTBB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said: Actually I think that's rather a shame. I like the idea of Norfolk being a key swing county with the nation waiting with bated breath to see which way its decisive electoral college votes will go. Indeed. Now what we'd have to do first is allocate some Electoral Collage votes between the counties based on some daft historical data - like " number of churches within the principle walls of your medieval cathedral city " so tough if you only have towns, then the political class can focus attention on those counties who now have the biggest influence on selecting the next ... oh hang on a minute we'd need a President to elect too, sorry Queen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites