The Never-President Trump

[SHRIMPER 328]

 

[Yellow Fever 3,734]

17 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

I would have thought Trump has had (or could have 'manufactured') many opportunities long before now to do what you intimate and it hasn't happened. Is this the same Trump who when there was a 'crisis' with Iran not long ago, stood down American forces at the last minute because of fear over the 'level of casualties'. At the time his critics (sorry 'haters') were forecasting he was going to unleash WW3 in the Middle East and 'nuke' Iran. Remind me what happened would you?  I agree the boy Trump is a numpty and a fool and an embarrassment to the so called 'Free World' but he isn't going round locking up Muslims and putting them in labour camps (sorry 're education' centres ) is he?? Your real worry should be the Chinese Leader. That wouldn't suit your left wing agenda though would it? 

Very sad that you think I'm left wing - I suppose I don't fit into your monochrome myopic view of the world. It's so much better in full colour and with many shades of grey. 

The point was Trump it seems is deliberately ramping up anti Chinese sentiment - for no other reason than his own naked political purpose - he needs an 'enemy' to blame for his own shortcomings and it plays well with those of limited intellect. Sadly the only people he is actually selling down the 'yellow' river are his own numpties.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Yellow Fever

[yellowrider120 761]

13 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

If you actually believe fairy tales like that then you really haven't been paying attention 😂

So tell me what did happen then?   

[The Real Buh 3,423]

People from the UK who get mad about Donald Trump are like those guys who got mad at Jeremy Clarkson in the 90s. It’s pathetic. So easily baited.

”Did you hear what he’s done now? He called the French surrender monkeys! Somethings got to be done for the children’s sake”

baited, rent free in your head.

[Herman 9,700]

The Donald Trump fan club has turned up. How do you think his presidency has gone?

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

39 minutes ago, Herman said:

The Donald Trump fan club has turned up. How do you think his presidency has gone?

Massively successful. You haven't stopped talking about him in four years. Like Buh says, he's living inside your head. 

[Herman 9,700]

You have a sad outlook if upseting people on the internet is the only joy you get out of life.

[A Load of Squit 5,113]

58 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

People from the UK who get mad about Donald Trump are like those guys who got mad at Jeremy Clarkson in the 90s. It’s pathetic. So easily baited.

”Did you hear what he’s done now? He called the French surrender monkeys! Somethings got to be done for the children’s sake”

baited, rent free in your head.

You are being baited by the pathetic people you claim are being baited.

They live rent free in your head.

 

[The Real Buh 3,423]

1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:

You are being baited by the pathetic people you claim are being baited.

They live rent free in your head.

 

Hang on, you pulled the old switcheroo on me

aha, that’s pretty clever. Smart move there pal.

[The Real Buh 3,423]

Any of you lads want the correct opinion on Donald Trump let me know and I’ll explain it to you.

[Herman 9,700]

Nah, you're alright mate. All the evidence proves we were correct to think that he would be an absolute disaster from the start. Corrupt and immoral as ****.

[TheGunnShow 5,910]

A largely ineffective leader who only has divide and rule in his locker and with no sense of long-term vision in his dealings. Yet he's not the problem. An antiquated electoral model that is gamed to all hell is the problem.

[SHRIMPER 328]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

A largely ineffective leader who only has divide and rule in his locker and with no sense of long-term vision in his dealings. Yet he's not the problem. An antiquated electoral model that is gamed to all hell is the problem.

His corrupt GOP enablers have been the problem.

[SHRIMPER 328]

 

[The Raptor 1,199]

This sums it up pretty well I think.

[TheGunnShow 5,910]

37 minutes ago, SHRIMPER said:

His corrupt GOP enablers have been the problem.

They're enabled due to said atrocious system that is a century out of date. We've got the same fundamental problem in the UK.

First-past-the-post voting is fit for one thing only, namely the scrapheap.

[A Load of Squit 5,113]

1 hour ago, SHRIMPER said:

 

Obama lives rent free in Trumps head. 😀

[Surfer 1,547]

It’s a) about time the US Networks called out the constant lying and b) they broadcast this video on their prime time new broadcasts - a twitter post doesn’t reach the people who need to know this. 

[SHRIMPER 328]

Just watching Brian Stelter on CNN talking about the Alt rightwing talk radio shows. How are they allowed to get away with such garbage?

[Surfer 1,547]

It’s behavior protected by the 1st Amendment and why proper broadcast channels like NBC, ABC, CBS have a massive responsibility to report the news not repeat propaganda - the latter is the role that Fox News and talk radio have adopted as their business model. 
 

it’s a really serious problem, and you have the same kind of issue in the UK with the press. It is supposed to be free and independent, but what regulations are appropriate to prevent it from become a propaganda arm of powerful people. 

[Surfer 1,547]

Here is a classic example of so called professional journalists totally missing the story.

a) the President does not have the authority to do any of what he says he is doing outside of a national emergency.

b) Talks with Democrats have not collapsed, the President's own Republican party in the Senate - The House already passed a Bill two months ago - didn't want to extend the $600 per person at all, refused to negotiate on anything and went home. A very convenient "crisis" the President can now try and exploit as "the hero". 

c) The tax holiday does not mean you don't pay the tax, it means it's deferred until later, so next year you will pay double. And people in work - the only ones that no payroll tax can possibly help - don't need the help.

d) The extra unemployment benefit is $300, not $600. They are doing magic math again - see the link to Larry Kudlow's interview below. To get anything the State would have to find an extra $100 to trigger the $300 from the Federal Government. So using his numbers - which I think are way high for average State aid  - previously: State existing $400 plus Federal $600. Now under this "order"  State pays $400 + $100 and Federal pays $300 conditional on the State including the $100 extra. 

States have already said they are broke because of loss of sales tax revenues. It's another of the items that the Republicans have refused to discuss.... so most States probably can't afford to spend an extra 20% (I think it's more like (33 - 50%) on their Unemployment Benefit budget when they are wondering how they can avoid laying off teachers and firemen and police. 

It is just so frustrating to see this happening again and again and again with the media. They only have to wait a few hours before posting their headlines and breaking news - or even insert the word "claims"  into the headline with an invitation to read more as the story develops. Their current behavior lets "the big lie" run rampant around the world with the truth struggling to catch up later. 

Just change.  "Donald Trump has bypassed Congress to give" to "Donald Trump claimed today he will bypass Congress using emergency powers to provide"  And it's clearly not thousands of Americans it's tens of millions..... or if it is only thousands, why isn't anyone asking why its thousands not tens of millions? 

How hard is that?

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Surfer

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

17 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

China apologists out in force today. Must be all Huawei phone owners. 

So Microsoft, Amazon, Paypal are not keeping and passing on your information?

Naive, thick, dummy, pavlov's dog. Which one or all do you fit perfectly?

[The Raptor 1,199]

2 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Obama lives rent free in Trumps head. 😀

Probably does. It's not like there is much else in there apart from bits of his old wigs

[Bill 1,788]

4 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

They're enabled due to said atrocious system that is a century out of date. We've got the same fundamental problem in the UK.

First-past-the-post voting is fit for one thing only, namely the scrapheap.

No we haven't

In fact the way many would like to see the UK move, is actually towards the US college system

The main problem is (UK) not the system, but the involvement of voters,

Who raised a peep when Tories cheered in Parliament because nurses wages were not to rise - or protested when the sun demanded striking junior doctors be jailed ?

How man UK voters actually know (or care) how the 2nd chamber (Lords) worked. One old duffer on her even thought the government made law.... not Parliament 🙄

How many supported the governments attempt to block the lawful democratic process - which subsequently required the judiciary to uphold that sanctity

Education of the voting system, not eradication.

[Surfer 1,547]

7 hours ago, Surfer said:

Here is a classic example of so called professional journalists totally missing the story.

a

Sorry to repost the whole thing but that CNN interview is even worse that it seems ..... The Federal subsidy for unemployment has been $600 per WEEK. The $1,200 number he keeps throwing in there is payroll taxes on the first $100,000 of wages. IF you earned $100,000 your contribution PLUS your employer’s would be $1,200 per MONTH.

And it’s not even a  $1,200 pay rise it’s $600  x whatever fraction of $100,000 you earn. Plus you have to pay it back next year. 

So a complete red herring,  and opens up the question, is the proposed Federal payment $300 per WEEK or is it per MONTH?

And the other question is, is he stupid, drunk or just full of BS? No Payroll Tax also defunds Social Security and Medicaid (Pensions, NHS)

So is this another attempt to impose policy they can’t pass through Congress, just like killing off Obamacare (their perjoritive phase not his) Of course the rich will like the above idea as Social Security and Medicaid are for the poor anyway. 

- And worse and worse - the Treasury Secretary Steven Mnunchin is on Fox. He says out load that Trump wants to kill the entire Payroll Tax that pays for Social Security and Medicare. Asked it that would not create a big problem for payouts from the fund he blithely says "no, we'll just pay it out of the general fund" 

a) that's not his call, Social Security is a ring fenced independent revenue and payout program v general taxation. So it's Congress's decision not his ... and certainly not the President's. 

b) it's been a goal of the right wing to kill Social Security and Medicare for a long time, pushing it into being funded by the general fund lets a future Republican Congress starve the programs of funds. 

So the Democrat push back should be - no, hell no!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Surfer

[TheGunnShow 5,910]

11 minutes ago, Bill said:

No we haven't

In fact the way many would like to see the UK move, is actually towards the US college system

The main problem is (UK) not the system, but the involvement of voters,

Who raised a peep when Tories cheered in Parliament because nurses wages were not to rise - or protested when the sun demanded striking junior doctors be jailed ?

How man UK voters actually know (or care) how the 2nd chamber (Lords) worked. One old duffer on her even thought the government made law.... not Parliament 🙄

How many supported the governments attempt to block the lawful democratic process - which subsequently required the judiciary to uphold that sanctity

Education of the voting system, not eradication.

Couldn't disagree more with the basic premise, I'm afraid. We're at an end-game of a gamed, useless first-past-the-post model where the result is two monolithic parties, and third parties are squeezed out due to FPTP rewarding force concentration (hence why you have splendid anomalies like the SNP getting 56 seats with 1.5 million votes and UKIP getting 1 seat with more than double that, or the election before where Labour had four times the seats the Lib Dems got with only two million extra votes). I agree that plenty don't know how the House of Lords works, but consider that to be a symptom of our gamed model which is not remotely representative of what the electorate wants as people start becoming far more apathetic towards politics in general simply as they think they can't change anything.

Very few First World countries use FPTP nowadays, the world's moved on somewhat and most use some form of proportional representation. I've said before in the thread that IMO, we really should go full Swiss.

The General Elections have in more recent times been generally characterised by negative campaigning instead of parties providing generally well-thought out visions of what they want for the country. Increasingly, people vote less for what they want, and start voting tactically instead. At that point it's less a case of voting for what they want, and voting to stop what they detest getting in. That's not remotely representative of what they want either. Net result - a disillusioned populace thinking politicians don't give a damn.

[Bill 1,788]

Doesn't this proposed state 'handout' go against what the rednecks object to ?

[Bill 1,788]

Sorry, but I am not quite sure you understand the Swiss system, or our system.

The Swiss have directly elected representatives, as we do. And apportioning seats to the other two sections does not make for more representative system, it simply means more long winded 'horse trading'

If ukip had proportionally been awarded more seats would that mean more representation, or them simply being bought, as with the Unionists in 2017 ?

What you are proposing is merely a smaller part of the tail wagging the dog.

[TheGunnShow 5,910]

I don't think you've understood the side-effects of our model at all as if people can't vote for the party they'd most prefer, they have to start doing a lot of trading off, and many voters are at this point. The Swiss do have directly elected representatives, however their populace is also far more empowered as they are, if they group up and a certain number of signatures is collected within specific time-frames, able to call a public initiative to referendum (100,000 signatures within 18 months) or being a law back to referendum (50,000 signatures within 90 days of a law entering the statute books).

The closest we'd have is the e-petition where 100,000 signatures merely means it goes to Parliament for debate and no more.

Our model is antiquated, useless, and not fit for purpose.

[Bill 1,788]

err, no

what you are proposing is simply that voting against, be transferred to the elected chamber - where all too often the wishes of the voters are ignored... Libdems backing the Tories in 2010

similarly manifesto 'promises' are  ignored once in power, and other measures can be introduced that were not mentioned at election time

'(50,000 signatures within 90 days of a law entering the statute books).'

that is incorrect - what can be done is to propose an amendment, which still has to be voted on by the legislative - and then are in danger of 'playing to the gallery' as with brexit

Even then these popular votes are poorly participated in, which does not address the problem but merely underline what I have said

The problem is the low level of voter participation, and even understanding