5 good reasons to stay in EU

[Jools 584]

1. Organizing a common market is much easier, which is especially an advantage for the export oriented nations.2. As the economic crisis did show, there is no way a single country alone can take the necessary measures to react. In the worst case reactions cancel each other out. Different countries are influeces by different problems. A union can help to control the effects.3. To prevent the next banking crisis, one would have to control the banks, which on a national level would be a futile task. Of course the current government is pretty much controlled by the financial market, so it is understandable that there is the tendency to let the taxpayers pay for the next crisis as well, and strangely enough, the british taxpayers seem happy with that idea.Hedgefonds might help some people to make a shitload of money, but in the end, a society should be interested in making property work in the common interest.4. A single nation won''t have much influence on international politics. Europes role in the world remains insignificant compared to the sum of the economic power it accumulates. The inability to talk with one voice allowed the conflict in Yugoslawia to escalate, it makes an answer to the industrial espionage of the USA impossible, it prevents influence on conflicts like currently in Syria, which then results in situations like we have now.But it also includes environmental measures, as pollution does not care for borders, and reacting to climate change is a task which is too big for single members to solve.5. In a globalized world there is no way to ensure life and work quality, when companies can follow tax benefits and can prevent governments from acting, which in essence means: loss of democratic control. To further synchronize those systems would serve everybody. Why should companies evade paying taxes somewhere in Ireland, when they operate in the whole union?Bonus reason: China. Without the Union, no state will keep any international relevance, and compared to China, Europe has become a parade of dwarfs, where a united Europe could be the biggest market on the planet. The idea, one could keep the current situation by trying to get Europe into the shape it was 50 years ago is a lot like shutting one''s eyes in the hope it

[Jools 584]

(edit.)... like shutting one''s eyes in the hope it would make the hungry lion disappear; it won''t get away, it will just be more difficult to react.

[JB 0]

JH, nonsense, very eloquent but still nonsense.

[Herman 9,714]

Why is it nonsense? Put up a counter argument.

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="Herman "]Why is it nonsense? Put up a counter argument.[/quote]There are plenty of counter arguments.http://www.federaljack.com/ebooks/eu%20truth/50reasons.pdf

You pay your money and take your choice.

[Herman 9,714]

Thank you Ricardo. I will read that when I get home.

[JB 0]

Evening men, if every euro MP had the same bee in their bonnet they could not change a thing as any decision is made by unelected mandarins. The EU makes FIFA look democratic by comparison.

Where there is money there is fiddling, where there is power there is corruption, the EU has both in abundance.

Why does what is basically a giant trade organisation need its own parliament?

If Britain wants to trade outside the EU it needs to comply with EU rules, the EU is often regarded as a straight jacket by business people.

[Herman 9,714]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Herman "]Why is it nonsense? Put up a counter argument.[/quote]There are plenty of counter arguments.http://www.federaljack.com/ebooks/eu%20truth/50reasons.pdf

You pay your money and take your choice.[/quote]I''m not sure if that is your sense of humour in action or not?!

[Herman 9,714]

[quote user="JB"]Evening men, if every euro MP had the same bee in their bonnet they could not change a thing as any decision is made by unelected mandarins. The EU makes FIFA look democratic by comparison.

Where there is money there is fiddling, where there is power there is corruption, the EU has both in abundance.

Why does what is basically a giant trade organisation need its own parliament?

If Britain wants to trade outside the EU it needs to comply with EU rules, the EU is often regarded as a straight jacket by business people.[/quote]Did you not notice the Chinese visit?

[JB 0]

Herman, of course Britain can trade outside the EU but it has to fit in with a mountain of rules and regulations. I think it was the chairman of JCB who said trading with the rest of the world whilst having to keep within EU law was a nightmare.

Anyway Herman, do you think we need an EU parliament? If yes I would be interested why.

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="Herman "][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Herman "]Why is it nonsense? Put up a counter argument.[/quote]There are plenty of counter arguments.http://www.federaljack.com/ebooks/eu%20truth/50reasons.pdf

You pay your money and take your choice.[/quote]I''m not sure if that is your sense of humour in action or not?![/quote][:D]

[ricardo 7,347]

Try this one Hermanhttp://uk.businessinsider.com/reasons-why-uk-leaving-the-eu-brexit-is-a-good-idea-2015-10

[Herman 9,714]

Genuine thanks for that Ricardo. An interesting article that doesn''t have the scent of xenophobia to it.

[ricardo 7,347]

[quote user="Herman "]Genuine thanks for that Ricardo. An interesting article that doesn''t have the scent of xenophobia to it.[/quote]It seems that there are economic advantages and disadvantages whatever we decide.For me personally it comes down to what price we put on being masters of our own destiny.

[SHRIMPER 328]

The link is invalid.

[Herman 9,714]

[url]http://uk.businessinsider.com/reasons-why-uk-leaving-the-eu-brexit-is-a-good-idea-2015-10[/url]

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

"For me personally it comes down to what price we put on being masters of our own destiny"For anyone who might have slowed down after the last weeks of musty red carpet tedium, watching the walking dead looking bored to bits, you might be forgiven not having caught our new dear leaders last by the by comment to DC before he entering his aircraft. ''Stay in Europe''.Now that was the most important thing he said all week and those who think that the 388 contracts signed will help us here economically think again, the nuclear deal will benefit the City of London Corp, nobody else, we pay 33/per year under nuclear expansion, and more if anything goes wrong, whilst only £6,- would be added if we go down the alternative energy route without the undeniable dangerous legacies to our children. All these deals are just a shiner, what is important to China is that we are inside the EU, the most lucrative biggest market for their goods, Xi Jinping has just bought his EU base here.The daft idea of a running away because the relationship has got harder and nobody is listening to DC, they are having their hands full with the refugee outfall of his bombing of Syria. DC has done nothing to negotiate a new deal, his kind reform pleas have fallen on deaf ears and his lack of tax probity for the rich and powerful the TNC''s that demand a low tax basis, such as News International, Vodafone etc.etc. the list is long, his unwillingness to sort out the tax havens and his corporate welfare policies visa vis hitting the taxpayer with austerity has run its pass, is invalid to say the least.But he''s not in charge of his EU destiny anymore, unreformed England is now China b....h.

[Shyster 0]

[quote user="julian hudson"]1. Organizing a common market is much easier, which is especially an advantage for the export oriented nations.2. As the economic crisis did show, there is no way a single country alone can take the necessary measures to react. In the worst case reactions cancel each other out. Different countries are influeces by different problems. A union can help to control the effects.3. To prevent the next banking crisis, one would have to control the banks, which on a national level would be a futile task. Of course the current government is pretty much controlled by the financial market, so it is understandable that there is the tendency to let the taxpayers pay for the next crisis as well, and strangely enough, the british taxpayers seem happy with that idea.Hedgefonds might help some people to make a shitload of money, but in the end, a society should be interested in making property work in the common interest.4. A single nation won''t have much influence on international politics. Europes role in the world remains insignificant compared to the sum of the economic power it accumulates. The inability to talk with one voice allowed the conflict in Yugoslawia to escalate, it makes an answer to the industrial espionage of the USA impossible, it prevents influence on conflicts like currently in Syria, which then results in situations like we have now.But it also includes environmental measures, as pollution does not care for borders, and reacting to climate change is a task which is too big for single members to solve.5. In a globalized world there is no way to ensure life and work quality, when companies can follow tax benefits and can prevent governments from acting, which in essence means: loss of democratic control. To further synchronize those systems would serve everybody. Why should companies evade paying taxes somewhere in Ireland, when they operate in the whole union?Bonus reason: China. Without the Union, no state will keep any international relevance, and compared to China, Europe has become a parade of dwarfs, where a united Europe could be the biggest market on the planet. The idea, one could keep the current situation by trying to get Europe into the shape it was 50 years ago is a lot like shutting one''s eyes in the hope it [/quote]Without going into great detail my response would be that I think that we could have most of the advantages of a ''united front of Europe'' within a much looser union than we have now. I don''t think we require a federal European superstate, which is of course, what the EU becomes more and more every year, to achieve co-operation on climate change etc...The EEA is already the biggest market on the planet and would continue to be so if the UK left the EU - to be an EEA member or else have a bi-lateral free trade treaty like Switzerland could only prove beneficial.Militarily we don''t need a European army-navy/air-force as we already have NATO. Telling the yanks to f*ck off might be satisfying in its way, but the USA is and will remain for some decades at least the world''s most powerful state, so I don''t think it is practical to do so.That said, whatever advantages EU-membership has for the UK, and I do admit it has some, we pay far too much for it. Our NET contribution is now more than twelve billion pounds per year and rising. In the EEA we would enjoy the same free trade but only have to contribute about one-sixth of that amount, which obviously anybody with an ounce of sense would prefer.

[Herman 9,714]

We''d still have to partcipate in the freedom of movement if we went the Swiss way. Isn''t that one of the main bugbears of the anti-EUs.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Militarily we don''t need a European army-navy/air-force as we already have NATO.well, its more of a case that NATO has us, is it not? the military industrial boom and bust complex worldwide has taken over NATO and its minions. But to think for ourself here in Europe, present a third balancing power between east and west in in my opinion vitally necessary, especially when one looks at the state of Syria and its ongoing refugee crisis resulting from us (USUK) bombing them for four years, without anyu explicit UN resolution, withouit the will of Parliament behind them.NATO was obsolete in 1990, a year after the wall fell and the Warsaw pact disintegrated.But hey, all this country now has to keep its head above water is an increasingly criminal City of London Corp drug money laundering operation, and the boom and bust arms deals we have with rogue countries such as Saudi and Israel. The steel industry is dead in the water thanks to our new dear leader flooding the market with cheap steel. As for all the twaddle about providing more work and jobs, just watch the house building grind to a halt, despite the need. Houses are being built slowly as to keep the inflationary rise in rents and house prices going, many of our 850 Lords depend on it, they''re not content with what they have already and the show must go on.As yet it is not clear whether a u-turn on the referendum will follow the many other u turns of the red/blue Tories. One thing is for sure, many of the Chinese students here now will be involved, might become the new immigrants to settle here so they can/will do the jobs we can''t be bothered to do. China will use England as its springboard into Europe, we have no fair vote and can''t do much about it, voting is still not the done thing amongst the young. If there is another shady referendum vote, taking us out of the EU, then they will find a different route, disinvest and maybe move to Scotland or Ireland.and where would that leave us?

[Donkey dangler 0]

The EU leadership has NO vision for the EU.

[Donkey dangler 0]

Nevermind stated:

well, its more of a case that NATO has us, is it not? the military industrial boom and bust complex worldwide has taken over NATO and its minions.

But to think for ourself here in Europe, present a third balancing power between east and west in in my opinion vitally necessary, especially when one looks at the state of Syria and its ongoing refugee crisis resulting from us (USUK) bombing them for four years,

-------------------------------

The Syrian refugee crisis was happening before any US / Arab / NATO coalition bombing! They were running away from Assads mob, ISIS and other militia.

The coalition were originally trying to stay out of it until the Yazidis and the Chrisitians were getting attacked.

As for NATO., I wouldnt want to rely on most of our so called European allies if there was a need for military action.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

you are definately dangling a donkey in front of eyes there,DD, but your timeline has somewhat slipped. The west, specifically our special forces, have trained Al Quaeda Al Nusra and  Syrian volunteers before Deera called for changes, indeed deera lying barely across the border from Jordan, has been singled out for agent provocateurs long before Assads defended his territory or the Yazidis, who were not asked to come to the training, were attacked by the Saudi and Qatari paid mercenaries.There are more arms being sold by us into this region modern surface to air hand held missiles and much more, blood is propping up our economy.As for NATO, tell me one NATO doctrine that speaks of expansion into eastern Europe, of placing missile defences on Putins doorstep. Thanfully the victims of MH 370 are now asking a civil court to make a decision on the findings, as the west is trying to deny that Kiev is the most likely cuplrit in this secret malaise.Kiev, which withing 24 hrs. of this happening had reports and pictures and statements ready in seven languages, all accusing the autonomous Donetzk region of having committed this attack.Now to your delusions on Europe, your home, your geographical history and home of your ancestors. We have traded for thousands of years , had wars and quarrels, but your common faith and future for your children lies in Europe and Eurasia, not a fracked out USA trying to force some stranglehold deal on us here.TTIP will be signed by Cameron or any other Tory should we leave, whilst the talks in the EU have stalled, made no progress for some time now. Obama''s wish to have it signed this year will not happen as it is toxic and dangerous to what we have achieved here in Europe. It also shuts off the far east Eurasia and most of the Asian Tigers, the BRIC countries and those who hav e decided to deal oil in a basket of currencies.your young donkeys need to feed before they can use their dangle and I''m afraid the transatlantic junk food will not do it for them.

[Jools 584]

Nevermind ~ [quote]fracking is bad for us."]you are definately dangling a donkey in front of eyes there,DD, but your timeline has somewhat slipped. The west, specifically our special forces, have trained Al Quaeda Al Nusra and  Syrian volunteers before Deera called for changes, indeed deera lying barely across the border from Jordan, has been singled out for agent provocateurs long before Assads defended his territory or the Yazidis, who were not asked to come to the training, were attacked by the Saudi and Qatari paid mercenaries.There are more arms being sold by us into this region modern surface to air hand held missiles and much more, blood is propping up our economy.As for NATO, tell me one NATO doctrine that speaks of expansion into eastern Europe, of placing missile defences on Putins doorstep. Thanfully the victims of MH 370 are now asking a civil court to make a decision on the findings, as the west is trying to deny that Kiev is the most likely cuplrit in this secret malaise.Kiev, which withing 24 hrs. of this happening had reports and pictures and statements ready in seven languages, all accusing the autonomous Donetzk region of having committed this attack.Now to your delusions on Europe, your home, your geographical history and home of your ancestors. We have traded for thousands of years , had wars and quarrels, but your common faith and future for your children lies in Europe and Eurasia, not a fracked out USA trying to force some stranglehold deal on us here.TTIP will be signed by Cameron or any other Tory should we leave, whilst the talks in the EU have stalled, made no progress for some time now. Obama''s wish to have it signed this year will not happen as it is toxic and dangerous to what we have achieved here in Europe. It also shuts off the far east Eurasia and most of the Asian Tigers, the BRIC countries and those who hav e decided to deal oil in a basket of currencies.your young donkeys need to feed before they can use their dangle and I''m afraid the transatlantic junk food will not do it for them.[/quote]Both yourself and Shyster have convinced me that we must vote out [Y]

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Thanks, Julian for explaining your very own worries so well in detail, and  for being so honest with us here, it is a secret election and you don''t have to tell anyone who you vote for. There at least 30 million just like you who need to be persuaded by one or other side of the argument, whatever it may be and however much it has been stretched and overemphasised.I know European history, the Hanseatic league, the wars we fought and how much we are dependent on each other now, so I base my belonging and future on Europe and Eurasia. wish you well, you do as you like boar.

[paul moy 235]

many more good reasons to come OUT but here is a very good one ......

Prices will drop by an average 8% (quoted by professor Patrick Minford) for consumers as prices will no longer be inflated to the consumer by virtue of the EU protectionist customs union system and we trade at the lower world market prices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leKEUT1TiLU

[paul moy 235]

The 8% estimated drop in cost of living for UK consumers is mentioned by Professor Minford at around 20.15 in the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leKEUT1TiLU

Vote OUT !!!!

[Herman 9,714]

It''s simple Paul. It''s either the status quo or a leap of faith. No amount of bs propaganda from either side has any effect anymore. And speaking purely for myself, I am sick to death of both of them. Some utter bollox is coming out,from Osborne last week, The Express today etc. Hopefully the electorate has a modicum of intelligence to see through a lot of it.

[paul moy 235]

Herman, it is not a leap of faith to be an independent country, as Patrick Minford says, as most countries in the world are independent and get on very well by controlling their own trade, economies, taxation, public services, immigration etc, and can also vote out useless governments every few years.

Staying in the EU is really not a realistic option as it is totally undemocratic as the EU commission cannot be voted out and it is causing the rise of ''extremist'' ''OUT'' parties as the people are not being listened to and never will be as the EU have their own federalist superstate agenda.

Vote OUT !!

[SwindonCanary 455]

5 good reasons to stay in EU - It would help the ''in'' crowd if they would put forward what''s good about staying, rather than always telling us how bad it would be if we left, especially when Cameron has been see on film saying how well we we do outside of the EU.