Ukraine Protests

[Sheva 123]

Please understand and support the courageous people of Ukraine who risk their lives and freedom, to fight the corrupt, greedy gangsters who control their country.

Football supporters throughout Ukraine are joining the protest movement in great and determined numbers, to protest against their country descending into dictatorship

Thank you to all British fans who have travelled to Ukraine and send supporting messages.

The Cossack Nation is attacked but will never surrender or die.

Peace and love to all of our English football fan, from East and West Ukraine.

[Herman 9,756]

Good luck to the people of Ukraine. Hope your fight achieves your aims. Stay safe.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

good luck with your fight and aims, lets hope that you will find common goals with your Russian contingents in the countryside, only when they understand that the younger generation has had enough of the Oligarchski''s and bendy komsomolks bleeding their country dry will you find enough power to pressure the bear.

[Sheva 123]

The protests haven''t gone away, it will take as long as it takes for the people to get a fair and just life away from the greedy, corrupt ruling elite/government.

We might be top heavy with Human Rights, some countries have zero, unless you have ''friends and fat wallets''.

Keep Ukraine in your minds, its much closer than you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PECUX7f3rY4&feature=youtu.be

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

[quote user="Sheva"]The protests haven''t gone away, it will take as long as it takes for the people to get a fair and just life away from the greedy, corrupt ruling elite/government.

We might be top heavy with Human Rights, some countries have zero, unless you have ''friends and fat wallets''.

Keep Ukraine in your minds, its much closer than you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PECUX7f3rY4&feature=youtu.be[/quote]

Yes we know how close it is Sheva, after all it is the US and people like Ms Nuland who are supporting Ukraine''s right wing forces. I had to change my mind after it was made clear that the EU is really not what you want to join, but the US. Sadly their agenda is total hegemony and I can''t agree with their interference in Europe much longer. Good luck nevertheless, but remember that democracy comes from talking to each other.

[Sheva 123]

Hegemony, something ''The'' Ukraine knows everything about. It also knows about genocide against millions its own people, wars, slavery and just brutal harshness that you can not imagine.

Its OK to talk but first you have to be alive or out of prison. Its going to change, the people demand it.

[Sheva 123]

It pains me to have to write another post about the terrible situation in Ukraine, but because of the utterly useless media reporting mainly by the BBC and Sky, who’s newspaper commentator, ’isn’t turned on enough to care’, then we as people who live and have family both in Ukraine and the UK, need to report fact and feelings of what its really about. This is a very big un stabling of Europe, Europe’s second biggest country and a country which Russia desperately wants to regain control of, just research the importance of Crimea to Russia and the conflicts there in past years, for one big reason.

We have no quarrel over religion, people can be leaning to the left, right or standing on their head, its no problem. The problem is the gangsters and corrupt politicians who control all the key positions of power and one President named Victor Yanukovich, who along with his family and friends have amassed great fortunes in a very short time , at the expense of the Ukrainian people. *Research his dentist son.

This is not a protest. It is not a riot. It is not unrest. It is a battle.

It is not because some Ukrainians would prefer to align more closely with Europe than with Russia. That''s how it started, but anyone still claiming that is waaaaaay behind the times.

What they want is to oust a corrupt and brutal regime.

Monday, the government laid a trap disguised as concessions and amnesty laws. They tricked the Maidan activists into opening a gap in a barricade securing their perimeter. This morning, they lured them into an ambush: a peaceful march found itself under attack by rooftop snipers.

Riot police burst through the gap in the barricade and surrounded the central square and center of the movement, Maidan, from which the EuroMaidan movement takes its name. The regime issued an ultimatum: Get out by 6 p.m., or we remove you forcefully.

The activists stayed. At 8 p.m. Kyiv time, the government forces attacked. The activists are fighting back. The government has water cannons, AK-47s, grenades, armored trucks. The activists have cobblestones, fireworks, molotov cocktails.

Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych isn''t an embattled leader. He''s a criminal, a mafioso, a coward, a liar, a thief, and a sociopath. He is, in short, a real piece of something smelly I stepped on.

The Maidan activists aren''t fascists or neo-Nazis. They aren''t fighting this fight for the sake of an EU association agreement which doesn''t even confer full EU membership. They are desperate people fighting for their right to live free, dignified lives in a country which treats them with respect and isn''t shot through with corruption at every level. They are fighting for hope and possibility. They are fighting because they have no other choice.

Thank you for your time.

[Herman 9,756]

Nothing much to add except good luck.

If you are interested the opposition channel 5 was up and running on YouTube. Non English but plenty of video coverage.

[Sheva 123]

Thank you Herman.

There are several private TV stations not blocked, this one is very up to date although you would need to ''translate'' running to crudely understand the developments. http://24tv.ua/

May I just also say that the BBC and Sky news are well behind events and not reporting the true causes for the unrest. In short it is a massive movement against government corruption , lack of basic human freedoms and state brutality. Only closer links with Europe and not Russia will give that. Ukraine doesn''t look to join the Euro zone, its years away, its people know that, but they, the majority want to have open trade and standards some where near to that of the west. The corrupt President and his ''family'', the root of the problem, could not continue to dictate and steal, with closer links to Europe. Putin wants Ukraine back under complete control of Russia, to suit his/their agender. Ukraine is a country its not ''The Ukraine'' any more, its not a region of USSR, it has its own language, Ukrainian .

The next few days are crucial for the future of Ukraine and beyond.

Aside from this thread, I would like you to read a football related post ''Yevhen Konoplyanka'' in other section!

[Herman 9,756]

Has he gone?

[Sheva 123]

Yes he''s gone, but thousands of brave people have suffered and died to achieve that.

Its up to us now to try and build a true democratic nation , where people get justice without fat wallets and friends, where the police don''t steal off you every day, where every part of business or purchase doesn''t come with a bribe .

People are warm and can eat , people are not afraid and can be the real Ukrainians, brave warm and fun loving.

As one BBC commentator said,

''''His son a dentist, is said to have made over 1 billon $ in just over 3 years, that''s one hell of a salary''''!!

Ukraine said No More.

[SHRIMPER 328]

Now let us hope that the Ukraine does not descend into total anarchy and civil war. The

Ukrainian people deserve better than that.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

well said shrimper. It is plausible that the Ukraine will split in its component parts after this violent uprising. Yanucovich has fled, some say to the east were more pro Russian administartions reign, whilst the Maidan country representatives look as if they want their own Government. To see the Ukraine splitting up because of this West versus Russian tug of war, leaving hundreds if not thousands dead and injured, is not something the people wanted or voted for, except for some.I regret the interference of Ms. Nuland and her outbursts, it was not the EU that got f...d, but those who provided the petrol for this fire. Further it was EU foreign ministers who brokered the current agreement. Whether it will work and help people to focus on new, unsoiled candidates, is another question. If it is not possible to find one overarching leader who can administrate a peaceful seperation, then I feel that more blood will be spilled.Yulia Timoschenko is not that person, she is angry and can''t leave her fingers of the Russian infrastructure criss crossing her country, and she has skeletons in her cupboard. We can only hope that the right candidate will be educated and fair to both sides in this divided country.

[Sheva 123]

Events moved very quickly, which in any other country would be a surprise.

The real game changer for the former President, now hiding on his own in Crimea, was the release of Yulia, the ex Prime Minster. She is one formidable women, a courage and determination which the Criminal ex President feared most. He always knew to release her was his ‘death’ sentence and rightly so.

She will only want to be the next elected President, although she doesn’t carry the Nation now, not after the events of the ‘Orange Revolution’ some 10 years ago, when Yulia and Yushenko failed to carry the Nation forward and allowed the Mafia Party of Regions to gain power, all be it corruptly.

I said then, she was corrupt but the fact is everyone in Russia/Ukraine is corrupt if they have real wealth, the system doesn’t allow any thing else. However Yulia Tymoshenko is from our ‘town’, and I’m told by friends who have worked and helped her with languages, that she is one very bright and easy to work with person, someone who is a world player , a friend of the Western world, which is where Ukraine is going, all of it, forget about East/West splits, Ukrainians simply don’t want that, end of, as you say.

The problem of Eastern Ukraine, where I live, is that mostly people speak Russian, nearly all families have direct or indirect Russian relatives, I have. They cannot understand Ukrainians much, although Ukrainian speakers can understand Russian!, there fore the East of Ukraine is very influenced by Russia itself, watching their TV programmes and also Ukrainian state TV , which was/is owned by the ‘Party OF Regions’ and shows Russian propaganda.. Just watch RT and you will get the idea.

How’s this going to finish?... Well IMO there won’t be WW3, unless Russia invades Crimea, of course we all then are involved as in the past, Crimea is vital to Russia, but you will need to research that one! What I do know from my many years of living and working in all parts of Ukraine and having family here, is that their character is such that, they can fight and hell can they fight, but once over, they have a rare ability to ‘shake hands’ dust them selves down and just carry on. I still am coming to terms with this lol, but although this uprising was very brutal, it just doesn’t even register compared with the events in Ukraine over the last 80-100 years. So I expect it to return to ‘normal’ soon, until the next one.!

I know this thread could run, if the last one is anything to go by, re; Orange Revolution’, but if I can just say one thing. Reading and watching from afar, is never going to get you near the truth, you have to live amongst it, work have business dealings, friends before you can begin to understand why this situation arose.

Thanks for your time.

Dnipro 1 . 0 Spurs Thursday

Norwich 1 . 0 Spurs Sunday

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Hi ShevaThanks for the update on the runner, last seen in Balaclava trying to leave the country in a three vehicle convoy.Yulia Timoschenko is as power mad than Yanukovich and she has skeletons in the cupboard as you said. We know that Klitschko was a debt collector for a mafi don, despite his denial, but he has also got an understanding of fairness, a masters in social development and a phd in sp[orts science.He is respected by Timoschenkop supporters and by many others. He is seen as not being corrupt and his comments are to the point., my money is on him becoming the next president. Ms Timoschenko and her personbal affairs wou;ld always attract the wrath of Russia, whilst Klitschko has respect in both camps, Russia and Europe.goopd luck with finding the runner.

[Sheva 123]

Finding Yanukovych, thought to be hidden on a Russian Navel vessel in Sevastopol Crimea, is important. He has to answer to many crimes, but more import is the breakup of what became known as the ‘Family’, headed by his son, Oleksander the denist.

This is a seriously large ‘group ‘who over rules all the over mafia clans in Ukraine. Yanukovych’s son Oleksander has organised it by giving a group of his mates all the key positions in Ukraine from which they amass hundreds of millons of $ for themselves and dad. Also Ukraines richest man Rinat Arkmetov, the owner of Shakhtar Donetsk and the main sponsor of Yanukovych Party Of Regions, gain great amounts of state cash, boasting his wealth to around 15 billion mark! Much of this money is invested in London and the UK, Arkmetov paid the highest price for a London apartment . It is also thought that Oleksander fled to London last week. There are many more in England.

The runners and riders for the next elected Ukrainian President; Poroshenko, Turchinov, Yatsenyuk, Klitchko, Tyagnibok, Lutsenko, Tymoshenko.

The name Turchinov is a strong contender, he is the acting Speaker and now President, has a lot of experience as has Yulia Tymoshenko, however my personal choice at the moment would be the World Champion boxer Vitali Klitchko.

He has so far come through this crisis very well, always leading from the front, being with the crowds, keeping his cool when attacked even by his own side and fronting the meetings with the ruling Yanukovych Government. It might seem strange that a boxer could become the President of a very large and important country but rest assured he is no ordinary boxer and being able to speak many languages, German fluently, and well as a high education, I’m confident that he can act as the head statesman and help unit the country. Its going to be a great picture if he gets to greet Mr Putin, standing a foot above him! If Reagan the actor can lead America, why not Klitchko the boxer?

We know where Klitchko made is money, there was no hiding in the ring.

Thanks for your time.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Hi ShevaThanks for explaining the mafia party to us. I also think that Klitschko is the better candidate, but a friend of mine seems to think that splitting the Ukraine in two seems not such a bad idea. after all the Ukraine is not very old and was assembled frompast republiks after the cold war ended.Here is a link to the article, the man is an ex ambassador who whistle blowed on torture. He was intricately inmvolved in sol.vin g border disputes nand knows his stuff. enjoyhttp://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/02/why-should-ukraine-not-split/

[Sheva 123]

Enjoy indeed!!

Don''t appreciate that you ''cut and paste '' my posts into a debate on another site.

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[Herman 9,756]

What is your take on the ongoing situation in Crimea, Sheva?

Is it as worrying as it sounds? Are the Russians stirring in things up?

[Sheva 123]

Herman, I don’t want to sound to alarmist, but yes it is serious and yes Putin is highly active there. Russian forces are pushing and the Russian flag is flying above the Crimean Government building which has been taken overnight by forces as yet unknown.

However Putin has a history of this and as long as the opposition stay strong and show no weakness, then it most properly will pass. They respect strength, strong leaders.

Ukraine has sent its special forces to intercept the column of Russian armed vehicles and told them to get back to their barracks. The west has also talked tough and now its clear that the UK is going to be heavenly involved, we have a big history in Crimea. [ Battle of Balaclava, Charge of The Light Brigade, Florence Nightingale]

At the end of the day the Muslim Tatars, Ukrainians and Russians have gotten on very well for many years in Crimea [Krim], they like must Ukrainians DON’T want to be under direct Russian rule again.

[Sheva 123]

I’m afraid the situation in Ukraine has now passed brinkmanship. The Ukrainian people are now excepting that they will be at war with Russia, who is now ready to invade its territory. Russia has never respected Ukraine or its people they don’t acknowledge it as an Independent Nation. Ukrainians are being attacked in Eastern Ukraine now.

I’m speaking to what I would describe as moderate and passive people in Ukraine and they are determined not to lay down in front of Russia, they are going to resist.

Ukraine is about to mobilize its army which is substantial, although not a match for Russia’s. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons, UK, US, and Russia gave guarantees in law that their boarders would be protected, they have been invaded.

This is all the work of Putin and now the peace of Europe is in serious danger. Read your books listen to the biased BBC but this is the news from the Eastern Front.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

You are now garnering sympathies for  a rightwing people who have yet to find their leaders and who have failed to paint a bigger future agenda for the Ukarine, a young  state that has been suffering under Russian Stalisnist purges, from Yanukoviches mafia oligarchsw and more, corruption and favours. For gods sake, every family has lost relatives to Stalins excesses  in the Ukraine, they have never been able to choose a candidate that represented them and I enclude a bent Ms Timochenko, now is the time.keep non violent and support each other. Good luck with Vitali, he needs guidance away from his Russian roots, he''s done the studies, now he can put them into practise.Russia will never give up its Black sea ports and the Crimean people have a choice, just as the rest of the country, an oligarch Russia or a more plural and democratic Europe.

[Sheva 123]

All strategic objects and installations in Crimea have now been taken by Russian Special Forces. The Ukrainians and Tartars of Ukraine have been invaded and conquered. There was and is no threat to Russian people in Crimea or through out Ukraine.

Ukrainians are saying; Why is Putin making a problem between Ukrainian and Ethnic Russian people living in Ukraine, it doesn’t exist!! It’s his excuse to invade Ukraine and take it under Russian control again.

91% of Ukrainians voted for Independence, if anything that figure could now be higher.

Crimean’s have no choice today, the Ukrainians and Tatars have been told by the Ukrainian Government to stay calm and not fight. Now they have been overrun by invading forces from Russian. Russia’s elite fighting forces.

Putin provokes clashes in Eastern Ukraine. The reality is that we all get along OK, but he wants an excuse to carry the invasion right through Ukraine. The UK, USA and Russia has a legal obligation to protect its boarders, signed in 1994 when we gave up our nuclear weapons. WE are now waiting!

Lets knock on the head some ‘left wing BBC’ crap. The western protesters are not Fascists, they are made up of a great cross section of p*ssed off people who couldn’t tolerate any longer the totally corrupt dictatorship regime of Victor Yanukovychs Government and took to the streets [ Maidan ] to demonstrate. They peacefully demonstrated for weeks and weeks in sub-zero temperatures, meanwhile people were taken by Government forces, tortured, beaten and dumped in the forest. People were beheaded and then Women, Children and Students were smashed to the ground in Central Kiev. Only then did the protesters get radical and fight back. The fight back was from all people, doctors, lawyers, teachers, business people, anyone who could see how bad the situation was getting. These people are hero’s, they fought against highly trained forces, who had grenades, rifles, armoured vehicles , all they had was homemade weapons of clubs and Molotov cocktails. They are not a group of right wing fascists and anti-Jewish, they are a great cross section of angry people who incorporates all types. They were from All parts of Ukraine.

They have defeated the biggest mafia, completely blown it apart, now the Whole of Ukraine has to unite and fight an even bigger menace, that of one of the world’s richest and most power crazy men, Mr Putin.

Putin has in a few days created massive tensions in Crimea, which never existed, he is stage managing provocations to give him reason to save the ‘poor beaten Russians’, but this is an illusion and a lie. Don’t be fooled. Stand up to dictators, we want peace, only a few crazy people cause the troubles.

[Sheva 123]

Millions of Ukrainians live in Russia, They are protesting against the actions of Putin and his Government and being arrested now. Should Ukraine invade Russia to save its citizens?

Another point of consideration. It suits Putin and Russia to destroyed Crimea as an tourist destination for millions of Russians. Where might they go then, you guessed it, Sochi !!

Whos pet project was that and how much was siphoned off from its budget. ?

Putin has taken Billions from the Russian people, 70-100 .

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Sheva you are saying that millions of Ukrainians are now being arrested for protesting against Putins move to protect Russians in the Crimea, clearly not true.What do you think America would do if Russia or China destabilises Canada or Mexico right next to its border, supporting right wing Nazi''s and mafiosis, with millions of Canadians and/ or Mexicans inhabiting the US? Do you think the US would sit by and watch it happen? or should we be a bit more realistic?I thought this is about Ukraine and its struggle for democracy, but it is not. Just as many millions of Russians live in the Ukraine. Yanukovich was made to flee by a largely right wing rabble supported by the like''s of Victoria Nuland and the US Government. Here is a video of Sasha Billy, one of the fascists now wielding power in Kiev.May be Sheva or a Russian speaker here could please translate this tirade of physical and verbal abuse of a young state prosecutor in this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8JC-ZjqFb4#t=91Ukraine most advanced naval vessel has just refused taking orders from Kiev, it has put itself under the auspice of Russia. Putins support for the Crimea is to be expected, he will support any Russian speaking minorities in the Ukraine.Putin can cut off the gas to Ukraine but has refrained from doing so, he is making defensive and protective moves currently and he is keeping in contact with Obama.Despite the Wests demonisation of Yanukovich and his son Oleksandr, he was deposed, a democratically elected president had to flee for fear of being killed.I do not deny that he is a scoundrel and has siphoned off Hundredfs of millions to London, like so many Oligarchs who find shelter and banks here who take their loot, but that can be fixed with an election and monitors, I''m sure there will be the usual candidates vying for votes, just as here and somebody else horrible will get elected.Most of Russias Black Sea fleet is in the eastern mediterranian watching what is going to happen in Syria, so NATO should stand well back and leave it alone, just because we are remminiscencing 100 years since 1914 does not mean we want another world war.If someone can translate what Billy boy is saying, let us know please.

[Herman 9,756]

Why are you always blaming the west and especially the US for the world''s troubles?

I''m no expert on this, and that is why I appreciate Sheva''s writings, but what I can make out is that Russia is taking advantage of the unstable situation in Ukraine.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Because it is a fact that Ms. Nuland supported the fascists that are now behaving like morons Herman, and Putins oligarchs are no different, what seemingly does not matter here are the ordinary people in the Ukraine, those who provide the money for these Oligarchs who siphon off the countries riches to leafy London.The story is not as we are led to believe thats all I''m saying, we will soon see who''s behind it apart from Pierre Omidyar.

[Herman 9,756]

Who are these fascists that you claim the US are supporting?

[Sheva 123]

Nevermind the danger, hey!

I have warned you not to cut and paste my posts into other forums, without my permission also don’t misquote me as you have done today.

Your knowledge of Ukraine and its Ukraine not ‘The Ukraine’, is very very limited and second/third hand information.

You can’t get over yourself; your judgement is just to clouded. We are of millions, who have stood for many years on Maidan protesting, we are no right wing rabble and fully understand what’s happening to the great nation of Ukraine.

We shall defend it to the last, we know who the enemy is. There are many things which haven’t come out yet and I would never disclose them here. You are going to be shocked if this goes much further.

герої не вмирають, до побачення

[SHRIMPER 328]

Sheva, once you have posted on the internet you have no control over who copy and paste it. I have great sympathy with your country but I can see how the Russians think also. The USA did not put up with Russia having missiles on their doorstep in Cuba and had them removed under the threat of WW3. The Russians are just looking at it the same way as I see it.