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Graham

Christian 'Group' Idea

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Hello.

I intend to set up a ''group'' for Christian members on here if anyone would be interested. How many of you adopt the good teachings of Christianity? I think a level of healthy debate could benefit us all.

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[quote user="Arthur Boreham-Stiffe"] Notabilitas abest. ? Futue te ipsum! [/quote]

Very good! I am always pleased to meet another interested in the classical languages! Do you also have an interest in my Christian Group Idea?

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Not all Christians are like Graham and not all atheists are like Richard Dawkins. Thank God!

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[quote user="Herman "]Not all Christians are like Graham and not all atheists are like Richard Dawkins. Thank God![/quote]

What''s wrong with Richard Dawkins? He owns christians every time he interviews one.

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I had a christian group idea once. The plan was to go to America and pretend to be christians in a christian rock band (like they did in south park) and con the public....like the band ''Underoath''. Terrible band, but they are a christian rock band raking it in....Unfortunately my band mates didn''t want to go to America, (as well as it being immoral......apparently)

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Dawkins just winds me up. Preachier than the bible-bashers. He is becoming as intolerant as the church. Shame really because he does have some interesting views and ideas.

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I''ve just finished reading the God Delusion, which on the whole I found enjoyable, informative and entertaining However, when trying to conduct some of his points I must admit I do feel as if in some cases he pushes the reader into a corner of which they don''t know how they got there....nor want to be

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You should read his twitter feed. Interesting if you like a view being hammered home. Relentlessly.

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For me, people like RIchard Dawkins are just as bad or worse as the religious people people like him don''t like (the extreme ''believe in God or you''re going to hell'' kind.).

I don''t see the need for atheists to shove their non-believing down peoples throats, and some are really really harsh and essentially call billions of people very rude things. But also don''t see why religious people have to try and convert people, sure ''advertising'' your church or whatever, yeah thats fine, but anything more than thats just a bit too much because religion is a personal thing and you shouldn''t have someone shoving it down your throat. A Protestant wouldn''t want a Catholic poking them in the street trying to get them to ''convert'' so why should they do the same to others?

But people are people so will continue to find reasons to annoy or just straight out insult others...

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"For me, people like RIchard Dawkins are just as bad or worse as the religious people people like him don''t like (the extreme ''believe in God or you''re going to hell'' kind.). "

Last I checked Dawkins hasn''t held back education, stoned women or non believers or threatened people who don''t agree with him with eternal damnation.

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Christians don''t do those things either. People abusing it may. Last I heard, Dawkins was getting it on with Mrs Garrison, speaking of South Park.

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"The way he goes on, it won''t be long. Fundamental atheism!! "

But theres nothing plain evil about atheism, there is about religion. A lot of like to pretend there isn''t but fundamentalists prove otherwise.

Your comment reminds me of a small cartoon strip I caught the other day.

Radical christian- Hey, let''s go blow up an abortion clinic!

Radical muslim- Hey, let''s go blow up an embassy!

''Radical'' atheist- Hey, let''s drink mini brews and talk about science stuff!

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"People abusing it may"

The sad thing is that it isn''t really abuse , they''re actions are ''justified'' in their holy books most of the time.

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You''re just lumping all Christians as fundamental nutters. Yes there are a few that use the Bible to justify their actions, but they are misinterpreting it, deliberately in some cases.

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"You''re just lumping all Christians as fundamental nutters"

?

" Yes there are a few that use the Bible to justify their actions, but they are misinterpreting it, deliberately in some cases."

Actually read the bible and then review what you just said.

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There are people out there that would use passages to justify their actions but completely ignore the parts, usually New Testament, that will contradict their ideas. Human nature.

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Gingerpele-The reason that "religious people" (i''ll assume you meant Christians) try and convert people is because that is what they are instructed to in the Bible. People aren''t born as Christians, they make a conscious decision to "convert", usually because of hearing other Christians speak.

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First off BWs cat, there isn''t anything plain evil about religion.

There is something plain evil, if you want to go down that route, about humanity on general. If religion never existed people would still be horrible. Religion has led to some horrible and unjustifiable acts throughout history, people often using religion as an excuse or catalyst for induvidual acts to full out war.

Atheists, may not do anything in the name of their belief, but they still do horrible evil things. Just because there are some radical people on religion doesn''t mean you can call the whole branch evil.

For example, if say a few hundred Norwich fans decided to go do something horrible, like racially abuse a player or something worse. Would you be happy with th media and people in general branding you as a racist because you''re a Norwich fan? No. It may be ''understandable'' but at the same time illogical and stupid,

Same applied to calling religion fundamentally evil. Religion can only be fundamentally evil, in my opinion, because humanity is. Cristians, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics and atheists are all capable of equally horrible things. When I go to church it isn''t encouraged to go out and do horrible things, not hinted at or anything. Some people are just ''broken'' and just need an excuse.

And Mr Angry. I was referring to more ''pushy'' forms of conversion. I''m Catholic because my Grandma (technically my Mum as well) is, I went to church a bit when I was young but when we moved out of Norwich (and then my Grandma when we moved back to Norwich) that stopped, I don''t go reguarly now, but do occasionally. I''ve got my bible and wear a crucifix, no one told me too, I made my own decision based on my experience with my family.

Of course previously (and still today, just not ''as'' frequently) people would be brought up in a religion and have no choice in the matter. But when I said ''try and convert'' I''m talking about people like the guy who stopped me in the street the other day, with his Book of Mormon telling me how God can make my life better. Jehovah''s knocking on doors, or in extreme cases that stupid church in America trying to force their views onto people by doing stupid protests at road sides or worse at people''s funerals and the like. I don''t know if any non-Christian groups operate in any ways like that so can''t comment on them.

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And reading your posts on thistle BWs Cat, I don''t think you are very well informed, do you know how many Christians there are in the world? Have you read the bible (old and New Testament) your self?

The bible doesn''t justify some of the stuff I think you think it does and as Herman says the New Testament pretty much teaches against all the silly horrible stuff in the old.

And the bible is up to interpretation, it''s not a set of guidelines. Some minority branches of Christianity do few the bible (old testament in particular) as being literally true despite science proving parts wrong (Noah''s Arc the most noticeable).

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I have read the bible GP. In fact, it''s what made me an atheist.

After seeing all the horrible, bigoted stuff the God int he bible does I couldn''t but feel that his sense of morality is actually worse than mine. Through my discovery of other atheist groups I was helped to see the damage religion can cause to society.

I always get fed up when people say ''it''s up for interpretation'' because it isn''t. You open it up and read it and whats on the paper is what it is. Also, Jesus said you had to obey the old testament too, so don''t claim that bit was rubbish but then God grew a heart.

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Wow.

Ok, I don''t care for one second if you are atheist or not, it doesn''t bother me.

But what you are saying is complete and utter b0llocks and you''re a poster I normally like and respect a lot.

First off, if you''re atheist, you don''t believe in God, therefore you don''t believe in anything he did in the bible. HUGE CONTRADICTION THERE. Secondly, the Old Testament is primarily a load of Bull. And anyone with half a brain doesn''t actually stone women who cheat on their husbands. Yes the church is still institutionally against gay people and things like that, but how many Christians actually are? I don''t know any...

To be honest, I don''t even want to go on, I think what you''ve said is ridiculous, the way you''ve gone on is just suggesting you have your own view and can''t even be bothered to read half of what i''ve said (you''ve completely ignored what I intended to be my main point, people are just horrible regardless of religion). This isn''t me having a strop or anything, I am actually just in disbelief at a poster I respect and normally enjoy reading your posts.

(And you probably won''t, but many do accuse me of, this isn''t me saying you can''t have an opinion, its fine for you to think what you think, but its also fine for me to think what I think I very much doubt either of us are going to change our minds, in fact you jus)t seem to be getting more ''aggressive'' with your point

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Not a lot I can add to Ginger''s great posts,only to say that I think BW is as guilty as others in taking parts of the Bible to back up their prejudices.

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I''ll be honest here and say that I''m kind of dumbfounded by those last two posts, but I don''t want to go on.

Partly because it''s in vain because your minds are made up, partly because it''s pissing people off, and partly because clearly Graham has triumphed in causing a flame war.

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I think Graham inadvertently started a discussion.

I also think that we can all agree that there has been some terrible things done in the name of religion, there still is. But there is a lot of good that can be learnt from it. It shouldn''t be pooh-poohed because of the people with loudest voices.

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Exactly Herman.

Why i''m most upset with BW''s Cat is because he appeared to completely ignore me saying pretty much that, but that people in general are/can be/have the potential to be horrible or evil without religion. And would be the same if religion never existed.

BW''s Cat, no one is having a flame war. I thought you were better than that, if you don''t want to get into a discussion then don''t, but don''t use excuses like that.

Religion has been the basis for some terrible wars, and terrible individual acts. But religion, on the whole (and there are billion of religious people across the world still) does not advocate, suggest, inspire, want, demand, require, hint at, or in any way make its followers do bad things. I''ve never come out of church thinking I should go kill some gay people because they are evil, or start a war with some Muslims. The bible does have some very harsh stuff in it, but the old testament is that, old. Its outdated. If you do believe in God, and believe it is the Holy Book, humans have clearly evolved (on the whole) past most of the ''stories'' in the Old Testament. And the New Testament is so so so much more about being kind (to simplify it, as I have with most of what i''ve said).

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