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Saint Canary

Little Norwich

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As a club we do like to portray ourselves as being "Little Norwich" and I must admit that sometimes it gets on my nerves but there are definite benefits.

Why do we project our image in this way do you think?  Is it an excuse for the board to use on negative occasions like relegation or is it a deliberate strategy to use in games and transfer dealings?  Or is it both?

There is no doubt this image makes us a very likeable club.  Conversely though it does give us the image sometimes that we are docile club that is not moving "onwards and upwards".  Sometimes last season some people could have been forgiven for thinking that the club had accepted from day one that we would be relegated from the Premier League.  Delia''s "Brave Little Norwich" speech did not help matters after the Fulham game either. 

I think that sometimes this self image does not help us attract players, sponsors, managers, coach''s etc that maybe we could aim for because we are playing ourselves down a bit too much.

As I said though there are advantages.  I think there is no doubt that we love to be the underdog, it suits us and we tend to do better when we are.  The fact that we were favourites to win the league this year probably has some bearing on why we have been disappointing as it seems we always lose the games we "should" win.  The "Little" image also helps us in the transfer market as I really don''t remember the last time we really paid over the odds for a player.

Ultimately I would like to see us stop playing the "Little Norwich" card quite as much but I can see it''s uses.

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Good post Saint and well done for changing the current debate.

That ''little Norwich'' jibe from Delia Smith infuriated me. I think the rot set in for Worthy the moment the players got back in the dresing room after the Crewe match in May 2004. From that moment on the whole attitude about the Premiership was....''lets enjoy it'', ''what a stadium to play football in'', ''who would have thought it, little Norwich this and little Norwich that''.

I never ONCE heard the Board, manager or team make any comment that suggested real ambition to do everything possible to survive and progress. I''m not saying at all they they did not try but simply that the expectation and ambition level was set far too low and I feel that that ''ethos'', if you like, permeated through to the players mindset.

Worthy was caught out in a major way last season:

1. Failure to replace Malky with a similar leader / character and out and out ''stopper'' type centre back.

2. Undue exclusion of Shacks, Safri and Helveg until it was too late.

That has carried on this season with:

1. Failure to replace Fleming (and find a partner for Shacks)

2. Failure to secure some ''quality'' in midfield to partner Safri, particularly in terms of reacing Francis''s goals.      

I think (as you say) that most of us enjoy the underdog role but this was decidedly overplayed by the club last season. I do not believe that Wigan and West Ham have significantly better squads than we had but their approach is entirely different and, so far, you can see for yourselves how that has reaped rewards. 

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Two brilliant posts. I have thought this for a long time now and couldn''t put it better.

This is highlighted all the more by the teams that got promoted to the Premisership this season. I can guarantee the word ''little'' will not be used by their staff to describe their teams.

I can only add that I think the ''Litttle Norwich'' attitude does us no good at all and can have an effect on players, managre and coaching staff.

I know of no business that would portray itself this way. This goes further of course, with Doomcaster coming out with his usual  ''we,ve no money'' act. This often occurs just before an important match, so folks, listen out for some utterings tomorrow!!

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Thank god I''m not the only one who feels that way, I was also watching in disbelief when Delia came out with her we are only little old Norwich party piece. We made a total balls up of our season in the prem and we can only hope that lessons have been learned if we make it again. We should have taken Wigans attitude and adopted a more cavalier approach, the annoying thing is that they are a small club and we''re not.

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I hate to say so but if anyone cares to look back at my posts last year when we were promoted I and many others were droning on about the board having some guts and making sure that by some sensible, not stupid, buying, we could ensure survival in the Premiership.   We did make some good buys such as Safri, we attracted the likes of Helveg but did we play these seasoned interationals - did we heck!
 
Poor lil'' ol'' Norwich - how do we compare ourselves with Wigan?  Well ultimately - and sorry to drag the debate back to where we were trying to avoid - the answer lies with their manager and chairman.   Paul Jewell is like Dowie, an excellent manager - able to motivate his troops to perform well.   The club have made some sound buys over the summer - what price Francis now eh?   And they''ve got a committed backer in the shape of Dave Whelan - a man who''s not afraid to take on Greater Manchester Police over the costs of policing.    Can you see the City board making such a fuss?   Whelan doesn''t pump in a fortune to the club - OK he''s probably committed more than Delia but it''s not the sort of cash that''s brought superstars to the club.
 
In order for this club to start going places we''ve got to have dreams and aspirations - and we need to have that burning desire to live the dream, not just experience it for a short while and go back to our old life living on the memories!
 
It''s time that the club made a major decision and came up with a sensible plan to ensure that not only are we financially sound but that we also aim to be capable of taking our place in the English footballing elite and stop cultivating that small club image - for crying out loud, we''re currently pulling in 25,000 spectators per week - that''s not small town support.

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Splendid posts. This ''little'' thing permeats everything we do and not just football. Nobody needs to patronise us, we are perfectly capable of patronising ourselves. If our own perception is so poor, how can we expect others to give us our due. Have our neighbours to the south ever regarded themselves as a little club? Of course not. If we ever come anywhere near realising our potential, we shall firmly occupy the middle ground. Delia and others, please give ''little'' a rest.

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I thought our mantra was ''prudence with ambition'' which doesn''t sound too bad to me. Some will (and frequently do) argue that we are too prudent and not ambitious enough but for every Wigan and West Ham there''s an Ipswich and a Leeds, so I think the board has it just about right (and I think the accounts prove it).

Don''t be too hard on Delia - she wears her heart on her sleeve and we should love her for it (along with the £8 million other reasons).

Maybe ''Little Norwich'' sounds a bit parochial but I would far rather the club''s rhetoric have a bit of humility and realism than the usual meaningless bullsh*t about being a ''sleeping giant'' getting back to ''where we belong''.

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[quote]I thought our mantra was ''prudence with ambition'' which doesn''t sound too bad to me. Some will (and frequently do) argue that we are too prudent and not ambitious enough but for every Wigan and West H...[/quote]

Good point about the "Back where we belong" mentalility and you say it could be worse than "Little" Norwich.

It''s funny though, we do portray ouselves as "Little" but then everyone at the club complains when we get no respect.  Everton have never apologised to us for the "racist" chanting even when they were proved wrong.  Other clubs would have got one.

I''m not having a go at the club, as I stated the image does help us as well.

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[quote]I hate to say so but if anyone cares to look back at my posts last year when we were promoted I and many others were droning on about the board having some guts and making sure that by some sensible, ...[/quote]

I was waiting for the first  " Francis " comment !   having read most of the wigan match reports  it sure as hell aint him thats   anything special  in that team !   ... Wigan  has a bustling and positive squad of players  who click as a team  ,   is this due to the manager ?  could be , but there`s been plenty of managers out there  with good records , but , at some stage in their careers , have failed to get a good team together  , despite having plenty of cash to play with .

I think  getting a good TEAM together  is largely a matter of luck !   a talent spotter   checks out a player  who looks promising ,  advises the manager to buy , only for this player to turn out useless  when taken away from the team he was playing for ! 

As for this " Little Norwich "  thing  ,  it smacks of the desperate casting around  by some fans  looking for scapegoats !  this time its  daggers out for Delia  because she  let slip  THAT comment ,  jaysus !   if anything , its  getting on her back  because  she said this  that  makes Norwich  look little , same with those who keep getting on Nigels back  for ONE single off the cuff comment , where he , rightly , said HE was the manager , not the fans !  

Despite all the complicated  analysis`s  of what went wrong last season  , all the breast beating  ,  all  the blame  directed at Nigel  for bad tactics , " players out of position "   etc etc  ,  the fact remains that  all through our period  in the prem  , our strikers wasted a bundle of  really good chances to score  , and the "  world class " keeper let in a record  number of goals !   ...IF those strikers  had scored instead  of booting the ball everywhichway , IF  the keeper had lived up to his  world class tag , we would very likely still be in the prem ! 

The Fulham game  WAS a disgaceful  exhibition  of  players  not even TRYING to win that crucial  match !   don`t talk to me about the manager not motivating players  , the goddam players KNEW  what the stakes were  , survival or relegation !!   apparently  this fact didn`t motivate them at all !    no wonder  Nigel  was animated during that match , fact is, he was near to busting a blood vessel !  I thought he  was going to  left hook Francis 

I think that was a rant  !   

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[quote]I was waiting for the first " Francis " comment ! having read most of the wigan match reports it sure as hell aint him thats anything special in that team ! ... Wigan has a bustling and posi...[/quote]

Sheded you can be assured that I am not looking to scapegoat Delia or anyone at the club but merely asking a question based on my observations.  We do portray ourselves as "Little" all the time and I merely asked if posters thought it helped or hindered us and I suggested it did both.  I certainly did not have my dagger out for Delia. (oo er)

You are right about Fulham though, it was a massive game and for me all Worthy should have had to of  said before game was "You know what you''re playing for".  The players should not have needed any motivation at all.

Not to keep harping on about last season but if we had conceded 1 (yes 1) less goal against Palace in either game we would have stayed up, that''s how close it was.  Relegated by 1 goal.

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When Delia mentioned ''little Norwich'' after the match, I was under the impression that was her view of what others thought of us, rather than her own view of her club. Did I pick that up wrong?

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[quote]When Delia mentioned ''little Norwich'' after the match, I was under the impression that was her view of what others thought of us, rather than her own view of her club. Did I pick that up wrong?[/quote]

You may be right Lincoln but I always took it that this is how the board wanted us to be portrayed.

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