Are we that bad ?

[Bill 1,788]

Nope, not as far as I can see.

However we seem to ''switch off'' too often.  Goals conceded have been through our player waiting for the ball to come to his head rather than move toward the ball. Which is also from what''s called ball watching, rather than man marking. Thankfully we seem to have dropped the absurd zonal marking (which makes as much sense as zonal attacking).

Rhodes doesn''t seem to have that killer touch - an ability that Holt had whereby where ever the ball was and his body was he managed to hit it towards the goal.

Otherwise we should not be frightened of losing the ball in attack. Too often we turn back, then play the ball across the pitch etc etc allowing the opposition to regroup. A bit more urgency would not go amiss, otherwise someone should explain to the players and Farke that marking the opposition is one of the most basic parts of the game.

Early days, and time for Farke to put a bit of fire and desire into the players.

[City fan 78]

Other than Lambert it''s been rotating doors with managers at the club over recent years. One dross manager replaced by another. It will continue as long as the not so saintly Delia remains.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Defensively, we really are yes.

I can’t believe I’m even suggesting this, but I think we’d benefit playing Russell Martin at centre half next to Hanley. Our defensive is full of players who don’t actually seem capable of defending. Poor in the air, over commiting and poor postional sence. I can’t believe the failure to correct this glaring obvious problem.

We’re crying out for a Malky type. Zim, Klose, Pinto, Stiepermann, Marshall, Passlack (limited evidence) are not good enough defensively for the championship style of football.

We need Lewis back in, but even he’s young and inconsistent. The only defender good enough is Hanley, and he has a mistake in him.

In midfield we currently offer no protection. When our full backs roam neither Tettey or Leitner or Trybull, or whoever plays the CDM role covers efftively and leaves us open down the flanks. Sheff Utd exposed this time and time again yesterday.

I really hope we’re able to sign another centre back and proper right back on loan. It’s a shame as we do have a some quality players.

Krul

Pinto Hanley Godfrey Lewis

Leitner Thompson

Marshall Pukki Hernandez

Rhodes

I think the above is the best 11 we have available. But as I said, I’d consider Martin at centre half at the minute!

[Indy 3,283]

On reflection yes we’re as bad as the results show, we’re full of lower level players, we have an inexperienced manager and we expect miracles.

They say a season shows where you are, last year we finished 14th, for some reason people think we’ve a stronger squad than last year, I can’t see it myself, given the two major player we lost in the summer both were MOM for their respective premiership clubs.

Just maybe we didn’t really see just how good these players were.

I think you get what you pay for, Klose, Pinto, Onel, Pukki and Rhodes are the stand out players in our squad the rest would just about get in a mid table championship team.

So yep we’re at a level where we’ll win a decent amount of games but nowhere near the quality of top 6.

Others seam to think a better coach can get more out of the players, well three games time we might get to see if that’s the case, if things continue!

[yellow_belly 226]

Yes. We are bad. Rather predictable.

But another manager would get a lot more out of the players. They could be good.

Agree with others. Delia needs to go, followed by Webber, stone and Farke.

Hate to say it (and I don’t want him!!) but Mick McCarthy would get a lot more from the players.

Farke can’t be expensive to offload and will be gone in the summer whatever. Can’t believe that the club will offer another contract.

Neil Adams was a far better manger and more successful, but had no time. (Obviously not a great manager!)

[Yellowbeagle 0]

The players don''t seem capable of stepping over that line needed to ruthlessly kill off teams when we have the upper hand. I think we lack that winning attitude throughout the team to win at any cost. It''s almost like we put 100% of our faith into the system and tactics, which might work with vastly superior players than the opposition which we don''t have. I just cant see this team tearing the opposition a new one at any point.

[CDMullins 436]

Yes,

We''re dreadful.

No balance, no heart, no attacking urgency, no quality and cant defend.

Our right hand side is non existent. Yep Leitner was poor, but hes essentially been asked to play right midfield., a complete waste.

Beat by a team of average team of British players who know what it means to play in the Championship and to represent a English club.

Christ knows how we''ve sold Pritchard, Murphy, Murphy and Maddison and have nothing to show for it.

Marshall is awful, I''ve never been a fan of Rhodes and if Pukki is the answer fcuk knows what the question is.

That said, I thought Lewis and Hernandez were excellent, no doubt they''ll be gone in January.

League one beckons unless we stop this charade and get someone in, who knows what their doing.

[Mello Yello 2,280]

Football isn''t a results business, is it? Well hopefully at least not for the affluent .....It''s actually for the ''get on the glad-rags match-day experience'' and mingling with the Norfolk elite. A few bevvies before a luvverly lunch, yom nom yom nom yom yom an'' a slurp....Then followed by a few more bevvies an'' a chinwag, maybe a jig and a gin or two, before scoffing a superb supper.....Then as the night is young, whatever takes our fancy?.....

The social aspect far outweighs whatever is going on that pristine turf. It''s much more fun chatting yah absolutely yah yah to those around you.....Or being totally focused on banging one''s pudgy digits on one''s smart fart phone, whilst 22 disinterested and overpaid oiks (I bet they''re all dull oikish brexiteers) huff an'' puff in a dour attempt to entertain....

What''s that? Oh, that chap''s blown for Full time? Hurrah and spiffing!.....Rah! Rah! Rah!.....

Right, regardless of the performance or the result - it''s again time to put on a visually aesthetic dedicated show for the onlooking gullible effluent, an'' clap the team orft like a dippy demented seal on acid - as those glorious gladiators traipse off the turf to the tunnel....

Well personally, ''Hic'' ''Belch'' ''Fart''..... If we are that bad.....I can''t say I''ve noticed?.....

[hogesar 9,618]

No heart is just something trotted out after a couple poor results without any evidence because its hard to prove either way, its lazy.

Rhodes was good yesterday and scored. Pukki has impressed all season. Some of the rubbish spouted on here doesnt fill me with confidence for the continuation of the human race let alone our project at NCFC

[Mello Yello 2,280]

As I say ''Paarp!''.....If we are that bad.....I can''t say I''ve noticed?.....

[Mike 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]No heart is just something trotted out after a couple poor results without any evidence because its hard to prove either way, its lazy.

Rhodes was good yesterday and scored. Pukki has impressed all season. Some of the rubbish spouted on here doesnt fill me with confidence for the continuation of the human race let alone our project at NCFC[/quote]

You love a fact, let we give you some -

1) 29% win rate in the league this year

2) 8 goals conceded in 3 games

3) 1 point out of nine playing a team that just escapes relegation, a poor WBA (on the day they really were, most pundits said) and a team we beat last year

4) the team is weaker than last year as the replacements for Maddison, Gunn and Murphy are not better

5) Project at NCFC? Sell your best players buy cheap to fund a massive black hole in finances? Sorry to let you down but your beloved leader is not some great tactian and master owner....

[Indy 3,283]

Pretty damning point 1 really, but is it just down to the manager or the entire set up?

We’ve had to readjust given the finances and buy within a budget, the gamble was to buy foreign as it was said similar quality player from English leagues cost more.

I still believe Farke has the ability to be a great coach here, but who knows.

[Bill 1,788]

"1 point out of nine playing a team that just escapes relegation, a poor

WBA (on the day they really were, most pundits said) and a team we beat

last year"

Teams do change. That is why WBA  are in the Championship. And it''s not as if WBA have been able to score a heap of goals against any other team is it ?

Three league games tells us more about the allegiance of the habitual whiners on here than ever it does about the team or the club.

My toys are still in the and as it is the beginning of the season my glass is still well topped up - with much to look forward to

Depends on what you want out of supporting a football club, I suppose.

[king canary 7,578]

We''re not that bad no.

We''ve actually looked better in these three games than we did most of last season- Farke has a couple of months to show he can turn those performances into points.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Next two matches will show how bad we really are

[hogesar 9,618]

@king

Yep agree with you on that. I really do rate Farke but youre right, he has to prove he can translate the performances into results sooner rather than later.

[king canary 7,578]

@Hogesar

Yep- if we''d have started this season with the slow, pedestrian play we saw last season I''d be much harsher to him. But we''ve seen improvements. My concern is that we go back to how we played last season to try and stop leaking goals.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

Hog this is a honest question not fishing or having a dig truely interested why do you rate Farke so highly ?

As you may Know i do not Rate him i think his build up play is far to slow i also think he does not get that extra 10 % out of players that''s my opinion

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

"As you may Know i do not Rate him i think his build up play is far to slow i also think he does not get that extra 10 % out of players that''s my opinion."

I''m beginning to think that way too, but prepared to give him a bit longer to finalise my assessment.

One thing is for sure, there are no more excuses to be had. If he hasn''t learned the league by now, he never will.

It''s a decent squad. We want some wins.

Another thread asks how long he has. It seems to me that, unless there is an amicable parting of the ways sometime this season (likely,) that he will actually be allowed to run his contract down even if we are failing.

I do not think that he will have much trouble getting a decent job back in Germany, and one of a higher status than the one he left.

My crunch time will be the derby game. If we lose that, then Farke loses me, and no doubt many others.

I am actually less optimistic about the outcome of this game than I have been for many years. Not because I think they are much cop under mini-man (I would be even less hopeful of a result against a McCarthy team) but because I fear Farke''s seeming kid-glove, softly softly, analytical approach which lacks urgency, imo, might not be up to the occasion.

We only just avoided defeated at Carrow Road the last time out thanks to heroic efforts in the last minute from our centre backs, although having the better of the game generally.

A couple of decent results in the meantime might elevate hopes, but then we hardly ever seem to get two wins on the trot these days.

[paddycanary 538]

To be a little ''glass half-full'' for the moment, we haven''t been beaten out the door in any of the 3 league games thus far. Showed good heart to come back away to Brum, should have got something against the Baggies and likewise should have got a point against the Blades. Competitive in each game - individual errors, vulnerability from corners, set-pieces and on the flanks are areas that can be coached & improved upon. Is DF the man to do this?

The squad of players are good enough for a top-ten finish, and with some momentum can challenge for top-six. Still too early to judge for me but I''m starting to wonder is Farke a ''Number Two'' man - quietly going about his business on the training pitch while the ''manager/figurehead'' fronts the arrangement. Can you be a ''head-coach'' and be Number 2? They''re only job titles anyway. Extremely unlikely Farke would do a ''turkey voting for Christmas'' and voluntarily demote himself.

Two home games coming up. Lewis is back, quite likely we''ll get to see more of Thompson & Godfrey very soon, Hernandez is flying, Pukki & Rhodes are effective, still feel Leitner will do the business if he can stay fit, McLean, Buendia & Vrancic to come in (surely not Jarvis too!), fringe players to get a run at Cardiff, derby coming up... Lots to consider and look forward to but basic errors need to be eradicated smartish.

[ZLF 271]

No - I do not believe we are that bad - and that we will trun the corner.

Brentford started last season like we have this season, playing well and creating but not taking chances, with some poor individual errors at the other end. Like them last season, if we continue to play as we are we will both score more of the good chances we have created and the back line will improve as they gain familiarity with roles and positions.

That some fan sites are highlighting no away clean sheets in 2018 and just 3 wins in 19 highlights that even with Maddison we had underlying problems. Things have not got worse, but if anything there is evidence that the issues are being addressed. Having lost such a large proportion of last seasons starting minutes (c40% again) it was always going to take time to gel - but there are clear signs the underlying improvement is there.

Of course 1 point from 9 is a concern, and facing aerially strong Preston and the impressive Leeds (whose style will suit us more imo) a challenge - but I think we will face it down.

[hogesar 9,618]

[quote user="norfolkngood"]Hog this is a honest question not fishing or having a dig truely interested why do you rate Farke so highly ?

As you may Know i do not Rate him i think his build up play is far to slow i also think he does not get that extra 10 % out of players that''s my opinion[/quote]

Hey Norfolk, no problem, it''s a completely fair question especially when you look at the results over his time here.

I agree that I don''t think he''s the motivational, up-and-at-em type manager who gets that extra bit out of players. But I share his fundamental beliefs that sports science alongside his style of play can be successful. Despite not getting that ''extra 10%'' we tend to generally look fitter than most teams and scored a lot of goals later in games which is a slight but not complete testament to that.

I do also think that most managers / head coaches would have struggled with the overhaul of last season. We had to slash the wage budget, get rid of big players, replace them with unproven one''s, whilst changing the entire ethos at Colney, the playing style, the sports science team and the entire training regime and culture (according to Webber), whilst at the same time integrating foreign players into a robust and physical league.

Whilst doing all that, Farke also managed to bring through youth and certainly seems to know when he see''s a young player who''s good enough. Having spoken to Maddison privately on a couple of occasions he''s incredibly complimentary of Farke and how he helped him. I imagine Jamal would have a similar experience. I generally think he works well with younger players and that has followed him from Germany, where he was highly rated as a coach in general.

All the above unfortunately becomes irrelevant if he can''t turn performances into results. In terms of build up play that has generally been quicker this season and I think that''s more down to us having genuine options in the attacking third; rather than any fundamental change from Farke. Where I do think he''s identified a need for change is to sometimes play the ball long - last season there was a blank refusal but equally we didn''t have a striker making the kind of intelligent runs that Rhodes has been.

Hopefully my faith will be repaid but if it doesn''t work out here i''m quite sure he''ll be successful elsewhere; albeit likely back in Germany.

[komakino 272]

The players are not that bad, we just have the double whammy of an inept, over methodical coach and a dictator who will not invest. Inevitable results to follow.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

We are not that bad, in fact there are signs of improvement in attack but the thing is we’ve been “close” to being decent for 14 months now and the big question is can we plug that gap by cutting out the defensive errors. The worrying thing from the first three games is that nothing has changed from last season.

Can Farke fix it or will we continue to fall just short most weeks due to our defending?

[ZLF 271]

A further complication is that that for the second season running we have huge squad turnover - meaning they have to learn about each others styles all over again.

We have the 3rd largest squad churn (% of pitch time from last season no longer at the club; only Hull and Bolton have changed more) this season having lost 42% of appearance time, and that is on top of 43% (6th most) last year. Most vividly highlighted by none of last seasons first starting XI appearing in the last 2 league games for us.

It should get better - and with the chances created I think reasonably quickly (although not necessarily this week)

[norfolkngood 1,086]

Whilst doing all that, Farke also managed to bring through youth and certainly seems to know when he see''s a young player who''s good enough. Having spoken to Maddison privately on a couple of occasions he''s incredibly complimentary of Farke and how he helped him.

that is the funny bit i spoke to Josh Holtby younger brother of ex spurs player Lewis Holtby who are related to my family and he said the same he said Farke was one of the best Coaches in Germany which i just can not see as his tactics are so predictable

i think maybe he is a fantastic youth / 1st team coach BUT not the best Manager / head coach maybe his coaching under a up and at them Manager would really be something !!

[komakino 272]

Farke''s level is in a U23 manager/Development role and should never be a Coach of a Championship side. He would struggle to get a job anywhere else in the football league as he hasn''t not remotely achieved anything. He is all about theory, not the reality.

He was a cheap option and I cannot see how he could get a contract extension on the form since he has been here.

As for his post match interviews, talk about going on and on and on which heads in to the Hamilton zone for talking the absolute pointless.

[hogesar 9,618]

[quote user="komakino"]Farke''s level is in a U23 manager/Development role and should never be a Coach of a Championship side. He would struggle to get a job anywhere else in the football league as he hasn''t not remotely achieved anything. He is all about theory, not the reality.

He was a cheap option and I cannot see how he could get a contract extension on the form since he has been here.

As for his post match interviews, talk about going on and on and on which heads in to the Hamilton zone for talking the absolute pointless.[/quote]

Double negative. You think Farke is amazing.

[komakino 272]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="komakino"]Farke''s level is in a U23 manager/Development role and should never be a Coach of a Championship side. He would struggle to get a job anywhere else in the football league as he hasn''t not remotely achieved anything. He is all about theory, not the reality.

He was a cheap option and I cannot see how he could get a contract extension on the form since he has been here.

As for his post match interviews, talk about going on and on and on which heads in to the Hamilton zone for talking the absolute pointless.[/quote]

Double negative. You think Farke is amazing.

[/quote]

Well spotted!

[Mason 47 1,373]

Keep hearing that we''ve conceded ''8 in 3 games'' but not often seeing ''scored 7 in 3 games'', which given the points we''ve garnered isn''t a massive consolation but it does show we''ve made strides in sorting the attack.

I get the feeling with Farke that he still hasn''t quite worked out that (unlike at Dortmund u23s) you can''t solely focus on holding your own system and usually other sides will fall under your boot. Playing 4-1-4-1 with 6 technically-minded players isn''t going to win you the Championship, and that''s the worry- that our coaching staff as a collective still seem to think this is possible. Similar to bringing 11 men back for corners- percentages will say having more heads in the box than them is statistically more likely to clear the ball, but having no out-ball means we are more than likely to have to defend a second and third ball into the box, yet, we persist.

He also has a concerning tendency to pick out midfielders/attackers and decide they would make a wonderful defender (Stiepermann, Godfrey, Wildschut, Marshall) which has already come to bite us this season. Over our first 4 games, even taking Lewis'' injury into account, we''ve used 6 players at left-back (4 of which are not left-backs and I''m not sure Husband is actually a footballer) and it has to be somewhat of a worry there is no clear plan B for Lewis getting injured.

Outside of the negatives, out of our 10 goals this year, 8 have directly involved at least 1 of Pukki, Rhodes or Hernandez (the outlying 2 coming when none of them were on the pitch) which shows we have a capable attacking unit now that can generate goals regardless of the rest of the team. I''d say that was a clear sign to give ''solid'' a go and switch to wing backs. We aren''t far off being a competitive side. I think we all just want to see DF learning from displays and showing adaptation, rather than putting exhausted Tettey in front of a defence with 2 genuine defenders in it and then moaning when we concede every game.