There's three main problems at Norwich City

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="thebigfeller"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

Damned right I point to losses "off the park". I love the way you are trying to marginalise and so diminish massive losses, as if they have no effect on how a club can perform, especially in the context of your desire for Norwich City to be taken over by someone whose modus operandi would almost certainly similarly be to flood the accounts with red ink.

[/quote]

So Brighton are going bust then? RIP Seagulls, thoughts with the friends and family? I must remember to warn their fans - who were last seen delirious with excitement at their team just having beaten Manchester United. It''s surely only a matter of time before their club dies... right?

If not, then what is your point?

[/quote]

I would have thought it was fairly obvious but I will happily spell it out. Your list of clubs you approve of as supposed successes that we ought to follow as example includes:1) Clubs that have racked up so much debt they have gone into administration and as a result have been relegated, with some having their entire existence threatened.2) Clubs that have broken FFP to get promoted.3) Clubs with suspiciously high levels of spending/debt which are almost certainly stretching FFP to its limits and quite possibly beyond, in high-stakes gambles on getting promotion.I am agnostic on the subject of investment/new ownership for Norwich City, but as a shareholder I would not want any potential new owner who was willing to run just those kinds of risks you apparently, based on that list, would be glad to accept.In short, unike you, I would vote against any such owner who intended to gamble by running up potentially unaffordable debt, or wanted to break FFP.

[JF 694]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 27/08/2018 7:28 PM:

This is where we''re polls apart JF. I can never agree with that.

Which part?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

The part where you''d happily gamble what we have for an unknown future. Our owners would want assurances of commitment from any potential buyer and I''m in agreement with them.

[JF 694]

Fair enough and I respect anyone who feels that way. As I said, some fans would hate that. Personally I’m willing to take that risk based on where we are now and likely to be.

[Duncan Edwards 2,218]

Me too.

[JF 694]

Although any assurances given could still turn out to be hogwash. What I’m getting at is that in football circles it must be known who is looking to buy a club. Would it be too much to ask to approach these people, irrelevant of nationality and see what there plans are and what they have to say?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]The part where you''d happily gamble what we have for an unknown future. Our owners would want assurances of commitment from any potential buyer and I''m in agreement with them.[/quote]

If only that were all it is Nutty but sadly I think the issue is they don’t want/won’t consider any buyer, not just wanting reassurances. I don’t know how much clearer “we will never sell” could be.

[Duncan Edwards 2,218]

I was agreeing with NN - not that I suspect that needs clarifying.

How many people would plump for the type of gamble they are advocating with something of theirs? Like a house? Plenty mortgaged to 125% with Northern Rock and others and after all, you know, the housing bubble and financial boom wasn’t going to come crashing down any time soon was it??? Ask Lehmann Brothers how that panned out....

I’m pretty thick to be honest and have no idea about finances, accounting or anything else but it seems to me that if you live beyond your means it’s pretty likely to come and bite you on the arse eventually. I’m sure one of the cleverer people on here can point out where I’m going wrong with such a simplistic view.

[JF 694]

That’s not a realistic comparison is it? They would be receiving the full value of their shares so there is no financial gamble for them, they get there money if the new owners run the club into the ground or into the champions league

[JF 694]

Their, bloody phones!!

[JF 694]

A more realistic comparison would be if I would rather sell my house to a respectable family that would look after it and not change much, magnolia walls throughout. Or the eccentric person that wants to take walls out, put an extension on and completely redecorate. Either way I get my money, it’s the future of the house that will change

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="JF"]A more realistic comparison would be if I would rather sell my house to a respectable family that would look after it and not change much, magnolia walls throughout. Or the eccentric person that wants to take walls out, put an extension on and completely redecorate. Either way I get my money, it’s the future of the house that will change[/quote]

I don''t see the relevance JF. I suppose you could have a scenario that would be a little more relevant if you were selling your house and had some responsibilities to a sitting tenant. Although I have a feeling if the buyer had deep enough pockets the tenant could be an irrelevance?

[JF 694]

Duncan asked how many would take a financial gamble with something of theirs, like there house and a remortgage. If they sell the club there is no financial gamble for them, is there? I’m just trying to put a scenario using someone’s house as Duncan used

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Out of interest, how many football clubs have actually gone bust since the introduction of the Premier League?

Yes, a few have had serious financial issues and administration, but to my knowledge, none have ever gone out of business. And most clubs suffering financial woes have bounced back.

So Purple, and others, comments like ''gambling with the clubs future'' is a little hysterical and over the top.

Take a risk, or risk being competitive at League One level. The fact is we''re being overtaken by clubs like Brentford and Wigan.

[Indy 3,283]

This whole discussion is pretty pointless as the clubs not for sale, the near future has already been laid out but the curren5 owners who said the fans may not like it!

Some do some don’t, I couldn’t give two hoots who owns the club, or what debt it’s the City’s team and I just want to watch the highest level of football with the best players we can afford, at the moment they’re not that good.

At what point will manageable debt be talked about and accepted?

[JF 694]

lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) wrote the following post at 27/08/2018 8:39 PM:

Out of interest, how many football clubs have actually gone bust since the introduction of the Premier League?

Yes, a few have had serious financial issues and administration, but to my knowledge, none have ever gone out of business. And most clubs suffering financial woes have bounced back.

I asked this a few pages ago. To my knowledge, none.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Once we don''t care about the value of the club to the community or the community to the club I wonder how long it will be before a franchise would be preferable if the money was right.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="JF"]lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) wrote the following post at 27/08/2018 8:39 PM:

Out of interest, how many football clubs have actually gone bust since the introduction of the Premier League?

Yes, a few have had serious financial issues and administration, but to my knowledge, none have ever gone out of business. And most clubs suffering financial woes have bounced back.

I asked this a few pages ago. To my knowledge, none.[/quote]

Apologies JF, I didn''t see it.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Once we don''t care about the value of the club to the community or the community to the club I wonder how long it will be before a franchise would be preferable if the money was right.[/quote]

Eh? Who wants the club to sacrifice any connection with the local community?

Is this what has happened at Leicester, Pompey, Southampton, Leeds etc, etc..... the answer is no! They are all still community focused clubs as much as we are.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Duncan - people are not advocating living beyond our means but rather increasing the level of those means.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Indy"]This whole discussion is pretty pointless as the clubs not for sale, the near future has already been laid out but the curren5 owners who said the fans may not like it!

Some do some don’t, I couldn’t give two hoots who owns the club, or what debt it’s the City’s team and I just want to watch the highest level of football with the best players we can afford, at the moment they’re not that good.

At what point will manageable debt be talked about and accepted?[/quote]

I was replying to this Lincoln.

I also don''t think we have the same idea of what a community club is. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Duncan - people are not advocating living beyond our means but rather increasing the level of those means.[/quote]

You forgot to add by whatever means possible.

The basic premise of increasing the level of those means is pretty much universally agreed.

[Indy 3,283]

That’s utterly wrong, the club will always be a community club regardless of who owns it, I have friends who are Arsenal and Man City season ticket holders and the are both community clubs on match days and outside match days.

I don’t believe as you do we need the current set up to be a community club, that’s down to the supporters not the owners.

[king canary 7,578]

Yes, if Delia and MWJ go the next owner will inevitably cancel all forms of community engagement.

[JF 694]

I’m afraid the billionaire lifetime Norwich City supporter that also happens to live locally and is also English isn’t out there and will never be. Maybe those nasty foreigners could be trusted to do a job as well as this non existent person though? After all, they would have pumped a lot of their own money into it. Like I’ve said would it really hurt to talk to these potential buyers that are looking to buy clubs and see what they have to offer? How could that possibly hurt? Unless of cause it is a closed shop and not for sale...

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Indy"]This whole discussion is pretty pointless as the clubs not for sale, the near future has already been laid out but the curren5 owners who said the fans may not like it!

Some do some don’t, I couldn’t give two hoots who owns the club, or what debt it’s the City’s team and I just want to watch the highest level of football with the best players we can afford, at the moment they’re not that good.

At what point will manageable debt be talked about and accepted?[/quote]

I was replying to this Lincoln.

I also don''t think we have the same idea of what a community club is. 

[/quote]

Don''t we? So how do you define it? And how does it differ to my view, or the community efforts at most other clubs?

I''d be really interested to know.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Not by whatever means possible Nutty no. Where do you get that from?

People should go and have a look at what Man Cutys owners have done in the local area and what they do in the community. No doubt many of our fans would have been deeply oppposed if they had wanted to buy us.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Indy"]That’s utterly wrong, the club will always be a community club regardless of who owns it, I have friends who are Arsenal and Man City season ticket holders and the are both community clubs on match days and outside match days.

I don’t believe as you do we need the current set up to be a community club, that’s down to the supporters not the owners.[/quote]

What is your definition of a community club?

Mine is a club which is involved in the community with the community involved in the club.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="king canary"]Yes, if Delia and MWJ go the next owner will inevitably cancel all forms of community engagement.[/quote]

This is just holding both sides of a discussion with yourself Kingo.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Indy"]That’s utterly wrong, the club will always be a community club regardless of who owns it, I have friends who are Arsenal and Man City season ticket holders and the are both community clubs on match days and outside match days.

I don’t believe as you do we need the current set up to be a community club, that’s down to the supporters not the owners.[/quote]

What is your definition of a community club?

Mine is a club which is involved in the community with the community involved in the club.

[/quote]

Which is primarily done through the CSF which is a separate charity which is not funded by the club or the owners so why would any new owner go and disband that (if they actually could?) or any other element of our community work for that matter?